3.1.2 - The fall of Hatred/Serenity in PvE

[bdatt]

My DPS has collapsed.

 

1.6% is a collapse?

 

BTW I totally assumed the revanite relic double proc'd too so I've been using it for a long while. At least I don't have that change coming too.

[Luckygunslinger]

1.6% is a collapse?

 

BTW I totally assumed the revanite relic double proc'd too so I've been using it for a long while. At least I don't have that change coming too.

 

Double proc on top of Serenity Strike's damage being reduced will do that to you.

[Damastes]

Looks like I've lost ~100 DPS and ~200 HPS, on average.

 

Might not seem like much until you remember we didn't need a nerf in PVE The range changes are still the most annoying part of this, to me.

[Luckygunslinger]

looks like i've lost ~100 dps and ~200 hps, on average.

 

Might not seem like much until you remember we didn't need a nerf in pve the range changes are still the most annoying part of this, to me.

 

infiltration revolution

[dfblohm]

EA You have ruined the assassin class. As a hatred spec I was barely competitive as it was before you nerfed me. I relied on skill to win because we couldn't do it with sheer power like other classes. You trashed my class and spec to the point of making him useless. Worst nerf decision you ever made. Why wasn't operative being able to stun you the entire fight and a assassin is defenseless (even before you nerfed us). I pay my subscription for the enjoyment and competitiveness of the game and you have taken that away. If this is not rectified soon you will lose at least this subscriber. You should feel ashamed of yourselves that you destroyed a class you created.

[Iona_Var]

EA You have ruined the assassin class. As a hatred spec I was barely competitive as it was before you nerfed me. I relied on skill to win because we couldn't do it with sheer power like other classes. You trashed my class and spec to the point of making him useless. Worst nerf decision you ever made. Why wasn't operative being able to stun you the entire fight and a assassin is defenseless (even before you nerfed us). I pay my subscription for the enjoyment and competitiveness of the game and you have taken that away. If this is not rectified soon you will lose at least this subscriber. You should feel ashamed of yourselves that you destroyed a class you created.

 

The class is hardly destroyed and we weren't and still aren't exactly defenseless in pvp. Hatred is still strong in pvp. Where we really got nerfed was pve.

[patyc]

Yap assassin is still strong if you don't die during dpsing. Basically I had tactic that give DoTs from range and trying keep range as long as possible. Now with range nerf I must be almost in mele range. And asassin hatred never win with any typically mele class. Hatred asassins must be in mele range only for short time for procs, and after that put DoTs on his target and run away for avoid dmg, and wait for DoTs doing job. If I must be in mele range, all mele class kill me before my DoTs kill them this is simple.

Somebody in Bioware must change brain. They first created spec which play in range (use DoTs and Death Field) and then reduce range almost for mele, no logical move for me.

[HelloKiki]

After some dummies got more or less the same DPS (depends on crits) as Serenity between 4.100 - 4.500 (192 with some 198ish).

 

Last night we can't HM but after clearing Rava / TOS 16nm, just MISS some QOL from FiB/Vanquish 30m on some fights (have te reposition between lurkerling to spread the dots taking more damage)

 

For PvP it's the same, we're more melee as melee so what else ?

 

And if you're getting kite as a Shadow/Sin you're doing something wrong.

[patyc]

But my Dots never kill target in mele range. I always have basic tactic that put Dots and run away and hide, then wait as long as possible because my DoTs kill slowly and I must have time to kill my target by DoTs that how it works for this spec. Frome this reason hatred doesn't have skill like deception have it for reduce 20% damage which they got. Because deception need it for survive during hitting his target in mele range when all time he taking damage.

Now if some typically range class rooted me and run further than 10 meters they can easy hit me without risk that I will hit them also. From the same reason Bioware gave deception 30 meters range for Low Slash.

Maybe Bioware just want to destroy this spec because too many ppl played in Hatred and not so many Deception. This theory is for me for now only one logical reason that nerf.

That is why for me range nerf have no logical sense.

[invertioN]

Looks like I've lost ~100 DPS and ~200 HPS, on average.

 

Might not seem like much until you remember we didn't need a nerf in PVE The range changes are still the most annoying part of this, to me.

 

I dont know how u lost 100 dps, u did not have the double proccing relic or what? I could do over 4.8k for days and now my dps is so s h i t tier that I don't even have the will to parse.

Edited April 8, 2015 by invertioN

[Damastes]

I dont know how u lost 100 dps, u did not have the double proccing relic or what?.

 

Yeah, I haven't had the double proc relic for a long time.

[JasonNH]

Looks like I've lost ~100 DPS and ~200 HPS, on average.

 

Looking the same for me, around 125ish. We ran a few HM bosses last night. Because of the large radius of FiB, it's still fairly useful at range but it has to be manually placed now rather than simply double clicked. Feels like the old days of healing on a commando, running and AoE targeting with kolto bomb. The range nerf overall was very noticeable, though I can't put a specific DPS number on it. The self-heal burst nerf on serenity strike was more obvious, and if there is one thing that is going to drive me to switch to infiltration on fights where I formerly used serenity, it's probably going to be that. Might as well grab the better damage reduction since I can't really help my healers anymore when most of HPS is wasted anyway.

[VonFinklestein]

I estimate Game Update 3.10

 

Same as last time pretty much

 

 

Game Update 3.10: Rise of Kephess

 

Sith Inquisitor

Assassin

Hatred

 

• Force Reach is now a part of the Hatred Discipline.
  
• Discharge now deals more damage so it's worth using in rotation again.
  
• Leeching Strike now deals 300% more damage, making it at the same level as its original state at 3.0.
  
• Force Shroud is now reduced to its original 1 minute cooldown (down from 10 minutes.)
  

 

Deception

• Blackout now increases Damage Reduction by an additional 1%.
  

Oh god that last part about deception made milk squirt out of my nose.

 

I was not drinking milk.

[sinnaman]

Look at me, I'm PVE

Nerfed into infinity

Can't go to Dread or some warzone instead

I can't, I'm PVE

 

Watch it! Hey I just wanna play

I'd like to run an OPS today

Won't hardly parse

cause I lost my arse

from nerfs that came my way

 

I can't blink (no!)

or stare (no!)

But Bioware does't care (eww!)

I get killed after one flame turret

I keep getting mauled

and then my shadow falls

While the ranged barely breaks a sweat?

 

As for you, the noobs of new

PVP is all you'll wanna do

You'll get your rank

while my DPS stank

I'm just plain PVE

 

Eric! Eric! Let me be!

Keep that nerf bat far from me!

You think you're so cool

while you've made me a fool

Hey fungoul, I'm PVE!

[Luckygunslinger]

Look at me, I'm PVE

Nerfed into infinity

Can't go to Dread or some warzone instead

I can't, I'm PVE

 

Watch it! Hey I just wanna play

I'd like to run an OPS today

Won't hardly parse

cause I lost my arse

from nerfs that came my way

 

I can't blink (no!)

or stare (no!)

But Bioware does't care (eww!)

I get killed after one flame turret

I keep getting mauled

and then my shadow falls

While the ranged barely breaks a sweat?

 

As for you, the noobs of new

PVP is all you'll wanna do

You'll get your rank

while my DPS stank

I'm just plain PVE

 

Eric! Eric! Let me be!

Keep that nerf bat far from me!

You think you're so cool

while you've made me a fool

Hey fungoul, I'm PVE!

 

I could imagine Give It Away by RHCP being redone with these lyrics.

 

Edited April 9, 2015 by Luckygunslinger

[Luckygunslinger]

So, a friend of mine pulled Hateful with us and swapped between Hatred and Deception. The damage output difference was minimal but the intake was huge. Hateful of course has a lot of AOE but it shows how much the two specs are pitted against one another and how Serenity loses. Edited April 10, 2015 by Luckygunslinger

[Aelanis]

So, a friend of mine pulled Hateful with us and swapped between Hatred and Deception. The damage output difference was minimal but the intake was huge. Hateful of course has a lot of AOE but it shows how much the two specs are pitted against one another and how Serenity loses.

 

And people didn't believe me

[Luckygunslinger]

And people didn't believe me

 

I always believed you bae.

[invertioN]

Yea shadows lost about 200 dps (ON DUMMY), here's a parse with good crits. With better crits MH and no lag maybe I can reach 5k, but before nerf I knew I could get 5.2k so that's it I guess.

http://parsely.io/parser/view/21049

[Luckygunslinger]

I did a few Infil parses but to be honest I don't think I'll ever touch Serenity again. Just can't handle it. Getting an average of a 4560 to 4590 in Infil, had to downgrade to near full 192's to get more power since I'm doing a low power, no Alac build. Edited April 11, 2015 by Luckygunslinger

[Aelanis]

I did a few Infil parses but to be honest I don't think I'll ever touch Serenity again. Just can't handle it. Getting an average of a 4560 to 4590 in Infil, had to downgrade to near full 192's to get more power since I'm doing a low power, no Alac build.

 

Hopefully by the end of Sunday I'll have some new (and more reliable) results from a new batch of theorycrafting for both Hatred and Deception. New Hatred numbers are strictly necessary due to the change in damage formulas, but I'm going to be updating the Deception rotation to one that's a smidge more force negative due to pushing it a little harder, especially under Blackout windows.

 

Alternatively, I may simply take a Deception parse out there that I know is really good (*cough Tenebras*) and take the exact ability usages and see what gear setup gets the highest DPS. I'm probably not going to test Alacrity augments, but the idea isn't off the table, if people really think the idea might stick around.

[Luckygunslinger]

Hopefully by the end of Sunday I'll have some new (and more reliable) results from a new batch of theorycrafting for both Hatred and Deception. New Hatred numbers are strictly necessary due to the change in damage formulas, but I'm going to be updating the Deception rotation to one that's a smidge more force negative due to pushing it a little harder, especially under Blackout windows.

 

Alternatively, I may simply take a Deception parse out there that I know is really good (*cough Tenebras*) and take the exact ability usages and see what gear setup gets the highest DPS. I'm probably not going to test Alacrity augments, but the idea isn't off the table, if people really think the idea might stick around.

 

I tested Alacrity augments, not worth it IMO. Blackout and Force Cloak don't get their CD's reduced so you're fitting more rotation into the blocks between blackouts and cloaks and as such need more saber strikes. I can see full Alacrity benefiting Serenity but for Infil? Nah.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Luckygunslinger

[danielkilgore]

I'm not a hardcore PvE or PvP player. I play a well balanced amount for both. The nerf is killing what was considered by many to be a major advantage for the Assassin. Hatred (once Madness) has been the premier discipline for the Assassin when in situations that required a large amount of DPS. The sacrifice that the Sin makes for this damage output was it's overall survivability if not grouped with a decent healer. I'm not pointing the finger at PvPers or PvEers. But for whatever reason Bioware ruined my favorite class. STOP IT! Instead of changing the classes that are the favorites for many....look at how many you are getting.....then take a peak at how many people play that class.....then I'm sure that you'll notice that there is a small fraction of the players currently subscribing that had a problem with the way things were. Just like with the Sorc/Sage.....you are ruining the best DPS out there as far as raw damage. Every class had reasonable perks and I frequently found myself in PvP losing to the Pub side. But this had little to do with the classes and more to do with how awful the Imperial side is on The Harbinger server. So lets try chilling out on the nerfs. Find ways to level the playing field, not cripple it. For those that want hard numbers, I pay a recurring fee for the best possible experience on a game. Bioware employs those that develop and modify the game to accomplish this is. It's not the customer/player's job to fix the problem.

 

Clean this up or this will be yet another MMO that nerfed itself into submission.

[Damastes]

I won't say yea or nay for an Alacrity Infiltration build, as the only reason I parse with high Alacrity for Infil is I'm too poor to change my gear between Serenity and Infiltration. If you want some numbers for a high Alacrity parse, here's one: http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/view/19634/6

 

That was done with 591 Alacrity, 148 Crit and 274 Surge.

 

As you can see, I didn't have to go overboard on Saber Strike. On a different parse, when I popped in the old 2-piece set bonus and used Saber Strike liberally (I didn't push my force at all, basically), I had comparable usage to Tenebras'.

 

My parse was very lucky, considering my crit rating, and I'm not using it as evidence for a pro-Alacrity standpoint.

[ShawnyBoi]

I did a few Infil parses but to be honest I don't think I'll ever touch Serenity again. Just can't handle it. Getting an average of a 4560 to 4590 in Infil, had to downgrade to near full 192's to get more power since I'm doing a low power, no Alac build.

 

You guys are depressing me! I love Shadow and Guardian DPS but get told that Melee is useless Now to hear the good guys here are having a hard time makes me almost sad I came back if I wont be able to play my favorite classes.

 

Maybe I'm just out of it but I pull about 300-500 dps lower on my Shadow than I do on my guardian. My shadow is full

186's without accuracy at 100 (I was asked to go tank and gear that out first) vs my guardian who's in 180's with half alacrity mods ( tryin it out but short on cash) and a few accuracy mods ( to get 100.09%). Am I just playing bad or is the accuracy making that difference?