Such poor class balance in 10-29.

[Koppster]

As above. You shouldn't be a gimped shadow of the player you might be a few levels down the road if you're going to be forced into such wide level-varied groupings for PvP.

 

Some classes have masses of defensive/offensive cd's and general utility, coupled with superb damage (ops and sorcs & their pub equivs come to mind) while others (guardians/juggs) are crippled until you get to the point where you've out-levelled the lowbie bracket only to face more of the same from other classes running wz's at 55+ with all their abilities and utility points available to them.

 

It turns most fights into lopsided frustrating travesties and yes, I know SWTOR is a pve game with pvp as an afterthought, but still, rebalance some classes low level utility to make more offensive/defensive abilities available sooner.

 

Even trying to tank fp's as a jedi guardian <30 is an exercise in frustration due to the lack of any real "oh s***!" buttons and it's not like they do faceroll damage to compensate.

 

Balance the game already or you'll find more players like me, who've returned after a long hiatus, saying, "is this all they've done in over a year?" then toddling off again, taking their subs and cartel coin purchases with them.

[TheJollyRogers]

Just level out of the lower level brackets? They can't balance the game for every level. Some classes are just going to be more effective at lower levels. I've never encountered an MMO where this wasn't the case.

[Koppster]

Problem with that is, once you hit 30 (as I said in my original post) you've got more of the same as the goalposts keep moving. Higher level characters have more of their abilities and utility points available and you just swap being one groups chewtoy for being another's.

 

It should never be the case that certain classes have to get to 45+ etc just to become more-or-less as effective as other classes that have been so for the last 25+ levels.

 

It's poor design and poor balancing.

[hallucigenocide]

what would be awesome is if there was a terminal you could go to that boosts you to max level and give you all the abilities when you want to pvp. that would eliminate this bracket crap and it would certainly be more fun for those who are leveling because they'd know what to expect when they finally hit max level. naturally they would not be matched with those who are level 60 this would strictly be for those who are leveling.

[Koppster]

...another massive problem in the 10-29 bracket is bolster not working on empty slots. This means the vast majority of players, especially in the sub-20 level range, are exceptionally gimped of stats and expertise rating as they get nothing for their vacant implant, earpiece and relics slots.

[foxmob]

what would be awesome is if there was a terminal you could go to that boosts you to max level and give you all the abilities when you want to pvp. that would eliminate this bracket crap and it would certainly be more fun for those who are leveling because they'd know what to expect when they finally hit max level. naturally they would not be matched with those who are level 60 this would strictly be for those who are leveling.

 

I would not have a big problem with that at all, but could you imagine the chaos that would cause? we're talking about the same population that couldn't even figure out how to equip pvp gear that they were given for free. (I'm referring to the 2nd set, which was actually effective in WZs).

 

a legitimate concern for this kind of thing is that of key binds and ability placements.

when I roll a new toon, I layout my quickbars the same (dps all the same; heal & tank the same - different placement of ops frame mostly). and I rebind everything according to my g10 & g13. so I'm in very good shape to receive new abilities. nevertheless, the way it works is new abilities fill the lowest available bind on the lowest available quickbar. even for me, who places things pretty much exactly where they'd be on my bars for end game the second I learn them, this presents something of a challenge/annoyance. personally, I would live with having to move abilities around on my bars, but I can see this being a gigantic obstacle for the general population. remember: we use upward of 30 binds in this kind of mmo. it's a lot different from the fast twitch pvp you get in FPSs or Terra/GW2/WS.

 

again, I'd like to do it, but I don't think it's feasible. it would also only ever happen automatically when you take a pop. I don't think it would be feasible to make it something you could toggle once before you queue and leave on until you're don't with pvp for the night. I don't know how BW could enforce those rules outside of WZs.

[SkyLordJaden]

Have you played mids recently?

[hallucigenocide]

I would not have a big problem with that at all, but could you imagine the chaos that would cause? we're talking about the same population that couldn't even figure out how to equip pvp gear that they were given for free. (I'm referring to the 2nd set, which was actually effective in WZs).

 

a legitimate concern for this kind of thing is that of key binds and ability placements.

when I roll a new toon, I layout my quickbars the same (dps all the same; heal & tank the same - different placement of ops frame mostly). and I rebind everything according to my g10 & g13. so I'm in very good shape to receive new abilities. nevertheless, the way it works is new abilities fill the lowest available bind on the lowest available quickbar. even for me, who places things pretty much exactly where they'd be on my bars for end game the second I learn them, this presents something of a challenge/annoyance. personally, I would live with having to move abilities around on my bars, but I can see this being a gigantic obstacle for the general population. remember: we use upward of 30 binds in this kind of mmo. it's a lot different from the fast twitch pvp you get in FPSs or Terra/GW2/WS.

 

again, I'd like to do it, but I don't think it's feasible. it would also only ever happen automatically when you take a pop. I don't think it would be feasible to make it something you could toggle once before you queue and leave on until you're don't with pvp for the night. I don't know how BW could enforce those rules outside of WZs.

 

it would be like practice pvp which atm regs currently are.. who knows in the end it might even improve the quality of players we get for regs?

 

anyway it's unlikely to happen but it would be pretty sweet

Edited March 13, 2015 by hallucigenocide

[GrimRita]

wait until you ding 30. Its a long, slow and painful ride until you actually become competitive around the late 40s. What made me just LOL last night was with my lvl 31 agent, I threw a flashbang a few times during the Queshball game at a level 54 Jugg, only for it not to stun him as he just carried on farming me.

 

Its like if I went to a planet and took on a much higher level mob and they just resist or dodge everything - the same in PvP. Its an utter joke and proves Bioware are ultra stupid.

 

Bioware have clearly decided that 2015 will see the end of PvP and by having this 'new' and stupid bracket, have made a good start ensuring that people just give up - Empty servers and long Q pops are proving its becoming a reality.

Edited March 14, 2015 by GrimRita

[Gyronamics]

...another massive problem in the 10-29 bracket is bolster not working on empty slots. This means the vast majority of players, especially in the sub-20 level range, are exceptionally gimped of stats and expertise rating as they get nothing for their vacant implant, earpiece and relics slots.

 

The instant that happens we'll get "response" videos of naked chars showing how you can PVP with no gear whatsoever and cue the moaning of "GG BIOFAIL, UNSUBBING".

 

People have to be allowed to fail.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Koppster]

The instant that happens we'll get "response" videos of naked chars showing how you can PVP with no gear whatsoever and cue the moaning of "GG BIOFAIL, UNSUBBING".

 

People have to be allowed to fail.

 

It's not about allowing them to fail, it's about the fact that unless you get lucky in flashpoints, there are NO implants, earpieces or relics available to players below level 20, so they are - through no fault of their own really - missing 5 slots worth of bolster stats & expertise if they queue for a warzone.

 

This gimps them even more than the lack of abilities available to some classes at lower levels, e.g. my own class (Guardian) who don't really get the offensive and defenisve utility to be able to properly hold their own until the late 40's.

[JackNader]

Lowbie is way more balanced than mid. At least bolster is working correctly in the lowbie. Mids have lvl 50+ gaining progressively more damage and HP over the lower level characters which is asinine. On top of that, there are spillover lvl 30's coming in with half their gear slots empty. Hell, the other day I saw a lvl 30 with 25k HP. The guy had 1250 expertise. He would have died in 2 hits every time. How is that fun?

 

Lowbie / mid PvP are meant to be the teaser to get people to play PvP at 60. How many people queue up, get their *** handed to them and then never queue again? Hell, all I do is PvP and I won't queue mids on a toon sub 57. There's no point.

Edited March 14, 2015 by JackNader

[Koppster]

At least bolster is working correctly in the lowbie

 

Only if you have all slots filled, as I already mentioned.

 

Most players <25 do not have implants, an earpiece, or relics equipped. Bolster gives you nothing for empty slots, an oversight that should be corrected, at least in the 10-29 bracket where there's an excuse for it.

[Ryuku-sama]

wait until you ding 30. Its a long, slow and painful ride until you actually become competitive around the late 40s. What made me just LOL last night was with my lvl 31 agent, I threw a flashbang a few times during the Queshball game at a level 54 Jugg, only for it not to stun him as he just carried on farming me.

 

I smell a L2P issue here. Your flashbang will stun your opponent.. If you or someone else have a DoT ticking... Or you hit him again... Or you just try to stun him while he is white-barred, that's misplay on your end.

[AlrikFassbauer]

It's not about allowing them to fail, it's about the fact that unless you get lucky in flashpoints, there are NO implants, earpieces or relics available to players below level 20, so they are - through no fault of their own really - missing 5 slots worth of bolster stats & expertise if they queue for a warzone.

 

Well, I understand your general point - but there is still the GTN and Cybertech.

The GTN should be your first choice, hen.

 

But I agree - players under a certain level are very much Gimped By THe System.

 

I smell a L2P issue here. Your flashbang will stun your opponent.. If you or someone else have a DoT ticking... Or you hit him again... Or you just try to stun him while he is white-barred, that's misplay on your end.

 

Why don't you just try it out instead of writing "L2P" ? Playing as a level 20 in this bracket ? You'll see it how it is.

 

Writing "L2P" is laziness. Actually testing things is the way to go.

Edited March 14, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Evanouss]

They shouldn't and will never bolster empty slots. They tried this before and royally screwed it up so thats not going to happen and shouldn't happen. What they should do is offer low level "blanks" ear pieces, implants and relics with minimal stats just to allow bolster to apply its effects to those stats.

[Koppster]

They shouldn't and will never bolster empty slots. They tried this before and royally screwed it up so thats not going to happen and shouldn't happen. What they should do is offer low level "blanks" ear pieces, implants and relics with minimal stats just to allow bolster to apply its effects to those stats.

 

I'd be happy with that, if only because I enjoy pvping as a means of helping the levelling process along and it's very off-putting starting a new character when I know what I'm going to be facing between levels 10-25 or so before I can fill all my slots easily.

 

GTN prices are usually stupid for low lvl slot gear, I never bother.

[Burrowa]

Have we seriously resorted to complaining about a meaningless 10-29 bracket? I hope this is a troll

[GrimRita]

I smell a L2P issue here. Your flashbang will stun your opponent.. If you or someone else have a DoT ticking... Or you hit him again... Or you just try to stun him while he is white-barred, that's misplay on your end.

 

Nope. no such thing. I looked for it - twice. Flashbanged him, it didn't even stop him, just carried out Master striking me. No one else was there, he had no dots, I didnt put a dot on him, because I actually know how to play.

[Ryuku-sama]

Why don't you just try it out instead of writing "L2P" ? Playing as a level 20 in this bracket ? You'll see it how it is.

 

Writing "L2P" is laziness. Actually testing things is the way to go.

 

Eh?? I did play a Jugg from 15 to 60, a Slinger to 48 and a Mando to 40 since 3.0. I'm currently playing a Madness Sorc (lvl22) 'cause **** Lightning.

 

Nope. no such thing. I looked for it - twice. Flashbanged him, it didn't even stop him, just carried out Master striking me. No one else was there, he had no dots, I didnt put a dot on him, because I actually know how to play.

 

You have absolutely no reason to miss a Flashbang on a Juggernaut. Absolutely NONE. The only reason the Jugg could pass through the Flashbang is by using a breaker (Jugg can have two under some circumstances and with an Heroic), he was white-barred or he took damage as your Flashbang landed. The first one is a counter-play, the two other are L2P issues on your end.

 

30-59... You get a little more HP (about 4-5k) and a little more main stat (about 500). Augmenting (for DPS) can give you about 200 more power/main stat once you removes the free power you get from standard prototype fortitude augments. It is annoying. But nothing that could make or break a good player. Only problem with the bolster system is how it outlines the weakest specs. A weak spec (such as AS Mando) will have way more trouble than a balanced spec (such as Rage Jugg) when playing on the lower end in midbies.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Ryuku-sama

[GrimRita]

The OP is right. With my level 28 Sorc, I just burn down a lvl 11 today in 3 hits. I felt really sorry for them but we have ALL been there.

 

It really is, however, up to the higher level players to pick up the slack (if you have any in the group 25-29). An example, a level 15 in my team killed a level 26 mainly because I was healing him in the process haha so he got his solo kill.

 

Brackets weren't around at launch but since then, we've never had such bad class balance and of course augments and stims to increase damage(30-59).

 

The only answer really is to remove brackets, boost everyone to 60 like GW 2 does. It will address the headache of Bolster and increase numbers in PvP in one swoop.

[Ryuku-sama]

The OP is right. With my level 28 Sorc, I just burn down a lvl 11 today in 3 hits. I felt really sorry for them but we have ALL been there.

 

Considering it is almost impossible for a lvl 11 to have 2018 Expertise (most have like 1500 until they hit 20)... That's another problem altogether.

 

The only answer really is to remove brackets, boost everyone to 60 like GW 2 does. It will address the headache of Bolster and increase numbers in PvP in one swoop.

 

I disagree with this based on a simple thing. In GW2 you have like 5 abilities. In SWTOR, you have 5-10 rotationnal abilities + 2-3 situationnal abilities + 1-5 kiting/counter-kiting CC + 1-5 DCD's + 1-2 mobility tools + 2-4 consumables + 10-20 talents modifying your abilities. Most new players hardly know how to play their lvl 20. Giving them all the tools a lvl 60 have would make them even easier to kill. There is a rather big learning curve for each class to go through to maximize your abilities in PvP.

[Koppster]

Have we seriously resorted to complaining about a meaningless 10-29 bracket? I hope this is a troll

 

It's only meaningless to lvl 60 ranked players I guess, I'm guessing this is also a troll.

 

The low levels are a big part of this game, this includes PvP.

 

Saying, "yeah some classes are hopelessly op against others in 10-29 and that's okay, because it's "meaningless"" is just being an arse. It's not meaningless to those that bother with it and for the rare player that chooses to level solely through PvP, that 10-29 bracket lasts a loooonnggg time.

 

That's not to mention new players that drift into the game as F2P, maybe from WoW etc, try warzones and get absolutely roflstomped, even after watching a few Youtube how-to vids, then log out, never to return. No subs, no cartel coin purchases. This happens enough times (I imagine it does) and it plays havoc with thoser quarterly reports...

Edited March 19, 2015 by Koppster

[Hei_Atzfel]

The only issue with lowbies is the fact that you simply don't have access to implants, earpieces, and relics until your 20's, meaning you can't get full expertise until that point. As far as bolster and all that is concerned (minus the previously stated) the lowbie bracket is perfectly fine. Midbies on the other hand......

 

Now, that said, yes being a higher level does give you an advantage. Not a single time on my 26+ madness sorc in lowbies did I ever lose against someone 20 or below, I was able to 4v1 level 10-14's multiple times. So level does matter, but it's not insurmountable if you know what you're doing.

[foxmob]

Have we seriously resorted to complaining about a meaningless 10-29 bracket? I hope this is a troll

 

I wouldn't call it "meaningless," but it's the least important for sure. I say this because you can move through an entire level in like 4 WZs when you're that low level. by the time you get to 30, however, the levels require more...leveling. so not only is there a significant imbalance based on gear or lack thereof and abilities, etc., but you're stuck in the bracket MUCH longer. it's 10 more levels, and each of those levels takes progressively longer to level through.

 

for me, lowbie was less than a week. for midbies...it's like 3+ weeks. 2.5+ of those 3+ weeks are painful (sub 55).