Prototypemind Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) I feel for you guys as I said in the GM's thread, but for the temporary GM to give someone else that status without doing anything to verify who he is was a horrible, horrible decision. I understand being upset and not wanting to play any longer, but as others have noted it opens up things to much larger scale scams. If someone walked up to you and tells you that your friend who left his car at your house told him to pick it up and you gave him the keys, that would also be on you, or in this case your GM. Not being an internet tough guy here, I'd tell you the same thing in person. Your temp GM messed up. Sucks, but that's how it is. There are just too many ways for this to be exploited on a large scale. AFAIK people whose accounts get hacked don't usually even get their items/creds returned either, so policy may have been violated, but other than the perpetrators being banned I don't think any action is taken. Trust but verify. Edited February 27, 2015 by Prototypemind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigSebes Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Dumb deserves what it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rashadk Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 They are following their policy though. Not much more to it. Personally, I wouldn't mind BW playing judge, investigator, and jury and police these issues. But many don't agree. Like the intellectual above me. It just irritates me that people benefit from screwing others. More than feeling sorry for the victims, the perps get under my skin, b/c that BS isn't in my nature. Still, I can understand BWs reasoning for not getting involved in such matters. I don't really blame them. If I was in charge though, you better believe I'd be dropping the hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthZak Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) The biggest problem is simply CS being a bunch of douches about the matter, they showed 0 interest in the matter. Yes it was the GM's own fault (pretty sure the GM admitted that) and no BW doesnt owe anyone anything but the truth of the matter is that CS handled the situation extremely poorly with its ****** responses. None of the responses actually address the situation and theyre both off the shelf scripted answers. Now, Im fine with them not being able to answer the question, theyre first line and dont know whats going on (personal experience) but these are the things you direct up to 2nd or 3rd line so they can be dealt with as a personal touch and a higher form of professionalism And to the people crying "They dont have to" or "They dont replace your stuff!", thats ******** since I had them replace several items in the past that I accidentally sold or broke down for mats. All we expect is a little effort put into this case seeing as we're paying customers who also pay for service. We're not getting the service part. Edited February 27, 2015 by DarthZak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemattson Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 At the age of 47, I've learned that you can absolutely drive yourself crazy thinking too much about all the B.S. that dishonest people pull (and routinely get away with). I pride myself on being one of the most honest people around, yet this has routinely screwed me over when I have worked in the past with people who have a glib tongue and a talent for passing the blame and dodging responsibility. It's not right, you can fight it all you want, and sometimes you can win but in the end, you have to ask yourself just how much you're going to let this get you down. So you lost millions of credits. I understand that it sucks. But it's not real life and in the end, it's a cheap lesson in learning to be a bit more selective with your trust. There are significantly bigger losses in life than what you'll face in a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakesoul Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 It sucks to be robbed but at the same time it's a lesson. Old republic isn't the only game to have this, WoW still has years worth of it happening right now and blizzard got to the point of warning guilds to increase permission levels and watch who you recruit, unless they are impersonating a developer to obtain items/information, they will no longer deal with the issue unless it resulted in real life threats, however they do grab some cases now and then and fix them but there is a bunch they have pushed away, I've been in 3 guilds which had these thefts occurred and blizzard not once came to help us only sent a reply back to the leader of each guild with the same auto message informing to watch who they recruit and increase permission level to prevent theft. I wouldn't abandon a game because of this issue, it's a life lesson and shows you that you have to be more careful on who you allow into your group and who much trust your willing to give them. Most guilds make you earn it by signing up on the forums and being active on that, others use teamspeak and check how you progress though communications and teamwork/contribute before being even allowed to request items from the bank. You will find that even outside of MMOs there are people out there wanting to screw you over in any way possible, it's just a learning curve to figure out who you can and willing to trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I appreciate the OP for a good laugh. This is almost as hilarious as those people who claim they were scammed on the GTN, having failed to pay attention to what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedip_enguin Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Your pain amuses me greatly OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 You got a nice scam going OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndasKastor Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I wasn't even going to respond to this, but since others have I will weigh in. I think it would be more like if someone stole your credit card at an airport and bought a bunch of stuff with your money. Sure would suck but hey, maybe you shouldn't be carrying that thing around in your pocket and now you're on the hook for all of that. It's not the bank's fault you didn't feel that guy's hand in your pocket. Nothing they did made that guy steal from you. Also, in general the internet is a terrible place to be yes, but we can talk to the "gods" here and they have the power to make things a lot better here than other random places on the internet. The problem is that the gods only speak in the language of money. Actually it sounds more like you gave your credit card away to a random stranger at the airport. The analogy is not very good. It is more like you were caught in the 'family member is in trouble and needs money wired to them ASAP' scam. Then after falling for it blaming the police or Western Union for not returning the money. You have my sympathy and I think your GM should have gotten a better worded canned response, but personally I don't think they should help. It is up to you and your guildmates to decide whether to keep playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojomagro Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I wasn't even going to respond to this, but since others have I will weigh in. I think it would be more like if someone stole your credit card at an airport and bought a bunch of stuff with your money. Sure would suck but hey, maybe you shouldn't be carrying that thing around in your pocket and now you're on the hook for all of that. It's not the bank's fault you didn't feel that guy's hand in your pocket. Nothing they did made that guy steal from you. Also, in general the internet is a terrible place to be yes, but we can talk to the "gods" here and they have the power to make things a lot better here than other random places on the internet. The problem is that the gods only speak in the language of money. To make your anecdote similar to the situation, you would have to give your CC to the thief who had a poorly-made mask of your mother/SO on. This is really absurd and sucks, but with something as important as the GM stick you should get some verification, not offhand comments and guesses, about who is who. I agree with the person who talked about precedent and that this is too easy to replicate fraudulently and claim identity theft. tl;dr sucks, but it's ultimately not BW's responsibility/fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dacentabaal Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Sorry OP.. chimed in on a similar thread to this the other week, at the end of the day you should be looking at your officers and LT's for blind inviting and promoting without having in place a safeguard to know its you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I appreciate the OP for a good laugh. This is almost as hilarious as those people who claim they were scammed on the GTN, having failed to pay attention to what they're doing. Are you trying to say that the OP wasn't scammed? I feel sympathy for him, because being scammed like this must suck, but he should know that CS wasn't ever going to do anything. They couldn't, with the frequency this happens it would take a lot of time and effort for them to track down all the info, determine guilt, figure out what happened to the stuff, and come up with a just punishment. It's much better to let the players deal with it and make sure it doesn't happen to them. He should suck it up and take it as a lesson, or I guess quit over something that was his officer's fault. And really, what stuff of actual worth to the guild was lost? If someone looted my bank like this (we tell our officers not to promote any alts unless they can verify who they are first) it would suck, but we wouldn't lose anything irreplaceable or so important that it would greatly affect the guild. Just a bunch of mats and things we barely touch. The stuff we use the most are stims, but those are dirt cheap to make, and the things that would hit us the hardest I'd say are guild ship components. But for the Frameworks, we make sure we use them whenever we get enough, so we never have more than a week or two of battlemaster hunts' worth of them on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Scam your way into a guild bank I will tell you the same thing i told your GM there are safe guards in place to stop people from doing this it was your officers fault in the first place. First an officer can not promote some one to a rank above him the rank bellow him should not have guild bank access simple as that. Guess what would of happened had you followed that you would still be sub. Hey police officer i left my keys in the car running some one stole my car and i am mad at Ford for not giving me a new one car for free or punish the thief. Make sense now that i put it that way. We told your GM that BW will do nothing a lesson learned move on. Only the GM or temp GM should of had rights to promoted to a rank that had guild bank access. Then the acting GM would of check into the person who asked to be promoted and found out it was a scam. Funny thing is if the person was in the guild before the GM went on holiday so to speak then it a long term member of the guild and i would look to them as a person out side the guild would not know the GM was taking a break. So most likely a long term member has all your stuff and laughing at you as they made 2 alt to join the guild to look like it was a outside job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Are you trying to say that the OP wasn't scammed? I'm saying no one, not even Bioware or its CS, can prevent people from being idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthZak Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I think most of you are missing one of the main points: the lack of proper communication from CS. Being told "Whelp sucks for you but we dont interfere in these things" is one thing and whilst bitter, it is how it is. In this case however they blatantly ignored the ticket and gave a standard scripted response. That might be useful for some things but in this case its simply inadequate. I have little to no cares to give if theyre busy or not, I pay money for several things and using a proper CS is part of that money. I work CS myself so I kinda take it personal that this is treated as badly as it is. Either a: we got unlucky with the agent helping us or b: BW employees are trained to give these responses. Both are an embarrassment to the company and other agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I'm saying no one, not even Bioware or its CS, can prevent people from being idiotic. In that case I fully agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) I think most of you are missing one of the main points: the lack of proper communication from CS. The word you are looking for is "carelessness", plus "idiocy". That's the main point really. Neither was on Bioware's part. Edited February 27, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Some of you have probably read what happened when the GM of Kinetic made his thread detailing the scam and what went wrong and what to watch for. It was basically a social engineering plot where the infiltrator joins a guild, finds the GM and his alts names, makes something similar, and logs in with the fake alt to get promoted to GM [...] Wait, wait, wait. Is it even possible for someone other then the current GM to promote someone to GM? So I'm done, sub has already been canceled, why bother even posting here on the forums? Indeed. Edited February 27, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I would have asked for his stuff, but it seems someone already helped themselves to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthZak Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 The word you are looking for is "carelessness", plus "idiocy". That's the main point really. Neither was on Bioware's part. How is the lack of CS communication not on BW's part? They work for BioWare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojiro Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I would have asked for his stuff, but it seems someone already helped themselves to it... You made my day good ser! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 How is the lack of CS communication not on BW's part? They work for BioWare. They did communicate... the issue was not due to some flaw in the the game. While regrettable, and I feel for the OP (I have had stuff taken from my bank once as well)... the issue is that the player tricked the guild officers into promotion, and took advantage of the new authority he was given. This is an easily avoidable thing. As was pointed out in the other thread. Bioware CS has nothing to do... there was nothing done due to some flaw in the game. You can say there should be tighter controls... but that is a seperate conversation. Requests for enhanced guild features and such. In this case, not sure what the request would be, but I'd probably say it was overkill. This guild had NO CONTROLS in place for inviting and promoting alts... Myself, and others have pointed out ways to handle this... or to have tighter controls over the promotion structure. Again, I feel for the OP and the OP of the other thread... but in the end... they made the mistake (just like I did by being a little too lenient with guild bank)... so if he wants to unsub because his guild didn't have a plan in place to prevent getting ripped off.. thats on him... BW didn't do anything wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthZak Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 They did communicate... the issue was not due to some flaw in the the game. While regrettable, and I feel for the OP (I have had stuff taken from my bank once as well)... the issue is that the player tricked the guild officers into promotion, and took advantage of the new authority he was given. This is an easily avoidable thing. As was pointed out in the other thread. Bioware CS has nothing to do... there was nothing done due to some flaw in the game. You can say there should be tighter controls... but that is a seperate conversation. Requests for enhanced guild features and such. In this case, not sure what the request would be, but I'd probably say it was overkill. This guild had NO CONTROLS in place for inviting and promoting alts... Myself, and others have pointed out ways to handle this... or to have tighter controls over the promotion structure. Again, I feel for the OP and the OP of the other thread... but in the end... they made the mistake (just like I did by being a little too lenient with guild bank)... so if he wants to unsub because his guild didn't have a plan in place to prevent getting ripped off.. thats on him... BW didn't do anything wrong here. If you call that communication then you have much to learn, this was scripted ******** that was mostly even irrelevant to the matter at hand. They linked to articles that werent related to the problem either. So no, they didnt communicate. Yeah I know there is little theyd do and as I said if they said "Well we cant/wont do anything" then thats fine, but the answers given are not satisfactory and I have no clue how someone would find them as so. As far as what they could do: they could in fact track the person down and remove the items or return them. Impersonation is in fact against the EULA so they could ban him too. This wouldnt be an exaggeration but it would be simply following their own rules. They dont have to, but they can. Yeah I totally admit that there was a mistake made, nobody is denying that either. I dont know why people keep hammering on this since its already been established. He wants to unsub because of the way CS is handling the situation and I cant blame him. As I said, Ive worked CS for several companies in several positions and this is not how you handle it. Its a serious matter since we're not the only guild duped by this guy or these guys. There are 3 other guilds who had the same thing happen on the same day and time so it was obviously organised. Again, CS handled it extremely poorly and thats one of the main issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Again, CS handled it extremely poorly and thats one of the main issues Honestly, if they had responded exactly as you laid out... you still wouldn't be happy... It would have been an unsub thread because they didn't come and return your stuff because "they didn't do anything". And sorry, I don't see this as "serious"... if the guilds in question didn't know there were guild bank raiders since the inception of a guild bank... well... I don't know what to say other than you were being short sighted.. if you had no mechanism for promoting alts... well again, you were being shortsighted. That's why suggestions given in this and other threads were made.... as how to prevent such things... I felt for the OP, and other other threads OP... now... not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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