12 x XP for class-missions

[Killance]

Tera has a free level 50 class after you get one character to 40.

Rift has cash shop level 60 booster(also comes with CE of nightmare tide)

WoW has it's free 90 with expac and level 90 in cash shop.

Guild Wars 2 has free level 20 coupons upon birthdates.

 

That's it for now on the top of my head. I'll edit if I remember more.

 

 

Adding another. FF14 ARR is giving away free level 50's for their new classes in the upcoming expac. Comepletely free, no charges.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Once you get to ~20 characters at level 60, ask yourself this: Do the side quests feel boring to you now? If not, fine, you really don't want experience gain boost at any point.

 

Yes they do, but all I have to do is pop a minor exp boost (which they give out like candy btw), do a single KDY to get my 20 coms and mad exp, then back to story. It isnt that hard to skip them as things are now without 12x.

[EnkiduNineEight]

I got curious and looked, because I assumed I play it faster than most. Kotor 1 average playtime is under 40 hours for first play through. Subsequent plays would go much faster.

 

40 hours to hit 50 (not 60) seems reasonable. Would be more like 30 for the speed run power levellers.

 

Prior to all the additions to make leveling easier and gaining experience faster, it took 60 hours to reach 50 on release.

 

Since release multiple additions have been made. Up to 10% bonus experience just from being in a guild, legacy based experience enhancers, purchasable bonus exp consumables, etc. Content has been made easier as well.

 

I would wager that it is wholly doable, under the present game, to level to 50 in 40 hours without making any changes to the game.

[EyesOfRed]

with every xp boost and speed tactic, in a *** SPEED RUN yea, maybe.

 

the same style of play in KOTOR takes just over 2-3 hours... whole game completed in a sitting easily. (Ive done that).

 

the average game time comes from average game play. speed runs are counter intuitive to what the single player crowd wants anyway. we dont want to turn questing/levelling into a mechanical process of pure efficiency. that **** sucks. relaxed, story-centric gameplay is all. a half assed substitute for the trilogy finale we never REALLY got.

 

 

edit:

every complaint against sped up levelling, comes from people who rely too much/entirely on pugs and group finder. thats a problem. Stop relying on pugs. just look at raid finder or any other similar system in any other game. they're full of bads. STOP RELYING ON PUGS. PROBLEM SOLVED.

Edited April 7, 2015 by EyesOfRed

[EllieAnne]

Actually I proposed that earlier as well and people in favor of 12x exp BUT said it was for the story were against it. Many of them said it was about the class story. That is when the UNIQUE class story ends. So really it shows just how disingenuous their argument is.

 

I don't think I ever objected to it although if we are truly talking about class missions it would be the end of Corellia - not level 50 - but I'd be fine with either.

[EllieAnne]

I would agree. Its evidence, to me, of a development crew chasing 'quarterlies' and not long term goals.

 

I won't disagree but then again, there's a lot that EA (not BW) is doing to SWTOR that indicates their mindset is cash grab before the game dies.

[Ghisallo]

I don't think I ever objected to it although if we are truly talking about class missions it would be the end of Corellia - not level 50 - but I'd be fine with either.

 

Well technically the way they have the level stuff se up you should be hitting 50 when you finish the Corellia stuff AFIK.

 

Also wasn't say you were against it mind you... just a lot of the "I just want the class story" peeps appeared to be against any limitations.

[ImmortalLowlife]

My idea for 12X would that ppl would only be able to do it til' lvl 50. I know both sides will hate me for that lol

 

Nope....this works for me to. I stop playing characters after I finish Chapt 3 anyway. Lol

[Edzew]

If you are unwilling to put for the effort to achieve an end then you are lazy. You can attempt to justify it, "But doing X is BORING!" but the root of your objection is that the work that needs to be done to achieve your end is something you do not want to do. Thus, Lazy by the very definition of the word.

 

You'll also note, people opposed to 12x aren't saying that you _HAVE_ to do the planetary quests (Though its nice when you do and help engage new players, specifically the heroics etc) they are just stating you should not receive a huge boost to experience that significantly reduces the time and effort investment from the "time + effort = reward" equation that is part of the leveling system in an RPG/MMO RPG.

 

You want a reward that you gateway behind some arbitrary achievements that significantly reduces the time portion and the effort portion but still arrives at the reward portion. This is not only lazy, but entitled (past efforts should rewarded me additional rewards beyond their base reward) and selfish/elitist (I'll set the reward levels such that they'll be very difficult for the new player to achieve but because the game has been out three years I already meet these arbitrary standards)

 

The very root of the request though is the belief that the supporters of 12x should not have to put forth the effort it took to make their first character and run them through the story as they do with subsequent characters. EG.. They don't want to do the work again, and by not wanting to do the work, they exhibit that they are 'Lazy', again by the very definition of the word.

 

You are already rewarded by the systems in place and it is already easier to make subsequent characters and get them to the end of the story/to the end game raiding/to the end game pvp etc. No additional reward is necessary especially because of the gulf it creates (exacerbates actually) between a new players experience and a veteran players experience.

 

TL;DR yea im being lazy right now dont want to read all of your post... mostly kuz its way too dang early in the morning on a sunday but also i really dont care about the rest of what you have to say. If someone finished the story mode for one toon on each faction then they should not be punished for wanting to create an alt. having to redo any of those stupid planetary quests IS punishment!! it has nothing to do with laziness at all and everything to do with punishment and being so bored you just log out due to falling asleep at the computer. (yes i actually fell asleep while playing this game doing planetary quests and yes it was in the middle of the day)

 

This game cant keep sub numbers up, nor can it keep subs long term because this game is too dang boring! bring in 12x XP and it will bring in/back many more subs. if not then the sub numbers will continue to fall.

[Quething]

"Lazy," "entitled," "you should have to earn it like we did"...

 

I remember all that crap from the Vanilla WoW forums, any time anyone asked for a QoL improvement or drop rate improvement with raids. It boggled me then and it boggles me now.

 

This is a game.

Games are meant to be fun.

 

If there's a part of your gaming experience that you hate so much that it feels like "work" you have to do to get to the stuff you actually want... why are you doing it? Why are you wasting the time and money you've allocated to recreation and entertainment on something that makes you unhappy?

 

If you hated it so much that it boils your blood from the injustice of it to think that somebody else might be able to avoid that type of gameplay, why did you do it in the first place? Why didn't you just put the game down and use your monthly $15 on a movie you would actually enjoy, and maybe some popcorn to go with?

 

A game should never be "work." A game you pay $15 a month on should always be fun.

 

12x XP supporters are asking for a way to make the game more fun for them. That's good. It's a game. It's supposed to be fun. If you hate the repetitive level grind so much that it feels unfair that other people could avoid it, you should support 12x XP too. Because then you, too, could skip the stuff that feels like "work" and spend more time having fun.

[Djiini]

*Snip*

 

You understand on a deep level.

[Taramayne]

 

This is a game.

Games are meant to be fun.

 

A game should never be "work." A game you pay $15 a month on should always be fun.

.

 

^ This. Entirely.

 

Saying people need to "work for it" is ludicrous. When a game becomes like work, it's time to find a new game.

 

Unless "working" in a video game is what turns some folks on; hey then go for it. I prefer to have fun. I work hard enough in RL to be able to pay for games like this.

 

The journey is fun the first few times. Not so much the next few. If there's an option to speed it up to make things more fun, I'm all for it.

 

Note that I said OPTION, mind you. If someone really WANTS to "work for it" that should be their choice.

[Vodas]

"Lazy," "entitled," "you should have to earn it like we did"...

<...>

12x XP supporters are asking for a way to make the game more fun for them. That's good. It's a game. It's supposed to be fun. If you hate the repetitive level grind so much that it feels unfair that other people could avoid it, you should support 12x XP too. Because then you, too, could skip the stuff that feels like "work" and spend more time having fun.

 

The best comment about this. This is exactly how I feel. The game needs to be fun and the 12x experience will DEFINITELY bring loads of fun for many people. For example, I love the stories of The Old Republic and would very much like to see all of the class stories, BUT I definitely won't be grinding for experience 8 times just to experience that.

 

SWTORs main asset is it's stories and I for one support this (as I support solo flashpoints and all other stuff that let's players experience the story in as many ways as possible) - it's called a story based MMO for a reason. And when people talk about "earning" something in a game - sorry but games are not made to EARN stuff - they are made to be fun.

[EyesOfRed]

I thought this thread had died finally.

 

The main thing is, this isn't an instant boost to level cap, its accelerated levelling until about 50, and only through class missions (see thread name).

 

Thats not much of an advantage, when you're talking about the competitve side of MMOs. being level 50, or even level capped, isn't going to make you a beast mode raider, or amazing at PVP. The 'unfair advantage' argument is pretty moot because the only time your level matters for any sort of acknowledgement or achievement is server first caps and such, which I imagine happened years ago haha.

 

If you really are using this to by pass most of the levelling to hit level cap asap, then really, your grind begins at 60 (or 50, you know what i mean). Its not going to give you a leg up in either PVE or PVP, you're still going to have to gear up, and skill up.

 

"light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level"™ doesn't give you a leg up anywhere that it matters, period.

 

And if you're only argument is "waaaah, but mah PuGs!". stop pugging. get a guild, find some friends. automated group finders ruined MMOs. Increased anonymity in MMOs has lead to rampant trollish/ and plain old ignorant behavior. cross server, rando queues, people just farming conquest by AFKing in pvp.

 

used to be, there was no cross server, no rando queues, no paying to change your name. If you acted like a *******, people on a server would learn that you're bad and not to play with you. Now a days, queue up, **** around, get some 'participation' points or w/e and lata. never see those people again. nbd.

 

play alone, or play with friends. ANY time you rely on random strangers, your odds are 50/50 at best you're gonna have a bad time.

[ekwalizer]

I thought this thread had died finally.

 

The main thing is, this isn't an instant boost to level cap, its accelerated levelling until about 50, and only through class missions (see thread name).

 

That is absolutely false due to the way that the main arc of Makeb, Oricon, Rishi and Yavin work. The vast majority of questing on those planets are counted as Class missions. So, no, it is not "until about 50".

 

Thats not much of an advantage, when you're talking about the competitive side of MMOs. being level 50, or even level capped, isn't going to make you a beast mode raider, or amazing at PVP. The 'unfair advantage' argument is pretty moot because the only time your level matters for any sort of acknowledgement or achievement is server first caps and such, which I imagine happened years ago haha.

 

If you really are using this to by pass most of the leveling to hit level cap asap, then really, your grind begins at 60 (or 50, you know what i mean). Its not going to give you a leg up in either PVE or PVP, you're still going to have to gear up, and skill up.

 

It will also ensure that a herd of fresh-60s arrive in the queues without proper gear. We are still seeing rapid levelers (whether 12XP or 2XP or no XP bonus) on planets like Corellia asking questions best answered on Dromund Kass/Coruscant. While not having 12Xp does not negate this problem, having it will certainly exasperate it.

 

"light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level"™ doesn't give you a leg up anywhere that it matters, period.

 

That is absolutely correct, It is a detriment to most players. They arrive ill prepared at end game and are left with a very bad taste in their mouths either from other players belittling them or by simply not being able to compete. What's worse, most of them do not know what they need to do to gain the gear required.

 

And if you're only argument is "waaaah, but mah PuGs!". stop pugging. get a guild, find some friends. automated group finders ruined MMOs. Increased anonymity in MMOs has lead to rampant trollish/ and plain old ignorant behavior. cross server, rando queues, people just farming conquest by AFKing in pvp.

 

For many players Pugging is their only option due to their schedule. I primarily play during the business week. I do raid with my guild on the weekends, but if I want to do anything end-game related in PvE during 80% of when I actually play - it is with a PuG. You can sit there and try to lord over all you survey but the fact remains that many players do not want to be just another random member of a super massive guild.

 

used to be, there was no cross server, no rando queues, no paying to change your name. If you acted like a *******, people on a server would learn that you're bad and not to play with you. Now a days, queue up, **** around, get some 'participation' points or w/e and lata. never see those people again. nbd.

 

play alone, or play with friends. ANY time you rely on random strangers, your odds are 50/50 at best you're gonna have a bad time.

 

I agree with this, I rarely queue up my tanks for a random GF because of all the bads. But, none of that has anything to do with 12XP; except that it will more quickly produce bads.

 

Whether you like the GF is irrelevant. It is a feature of the game. It certainly could use some improvements on the development side of the house such as a real gearscore check.

[ekwalizer]

The best comment about this. This is exactly how I feel. The game needs to be fun and the 12x experience will DEFINITELY bring loads of fun for many people. For example, I love the stories of The Old Republic and would very much like to see all of the class stories, BUT I definitely won't be grinding for experience 8 times just to experience that.

 

SWTORs main asset is it's stories and I for one support this (as I support solo flashpoints and all other stuff that let's players experience the story in as many ways as possible) - it's called a story based MMO for a reason. And when people talk about "earning" something in a game - sorry but games are not made to EARN stuff - they are made to be fun.

 

Oh ok, so everyone should just be given 198 gear when they ding 60 then? And top-tier PvP gear too, that should just be given out in the name of "fun".

 

For the record, this game has not been a "story driven MMO" since 2.0.

[EyesOfRed]

I'm sorry catering to PUGs is just ridiculous. You could find a weekday guild, or just a few people on a friends list you know aren't stupid. Its completely ludicrous to try and hold the whole of this game's community to any arbitrary standard of knowledge or skill. Its your job to find who you do and dont play well with.

 

You rely so heavily on the group component of this game, but want nothing to do with the actual interacting with people. That is unrealistic. I dont have time to raid, so i stopped trying. I wouldn't want them to make that **** easier, or cater to my part-time play schedule. I'm perfectly fine avoiding FPs and such, playing solo. I just really dont understand.

 

How the hell is the PuG argument holding any water what so ever? You want to raid with 15 other people but can't be bothered to form the necessary player base? You sure raiding and OPs are where you should be then?

 

How can you be so focused on group content, while trying to ignore the social component? ***? I ignore the social component, but i dont CARE for the online component of this game. If you want the MMO style of play, you should embrace the social, making friends aspect of online gaming.

 

do a pug, get 1 good player, talk to that player, whisper them directly next time you want to group up, dont just say 'bye' and never talk to them again. what kind of weird *** 1 player MMO format have we created?

 

 

edit: forgot to touch on, even if they did make it class missions up to 60, its still a very watered down version of what MANY MANY other MMOS offer in the form of a buy-level-cap service.

 

The 198 pve gear and top tier pvp gear, was what i meant when i said, you'd still have to do get those things once you hit level cap, and as such was not much of an advantage. being handed gear is contrary to the carrot and stick model MMOs provide, removes both motivation to play and the reward for success. And would be meaningless to all the people who want this function as a means of playing through the story lines as their characters would go untouched once the story concluded. NO ONE is talking about handing out free gear. definition of straw man.

Edited April 12, 2015 by EyesOfRed

[Ratajack]

I'm sorry catering to PUGs is just ridiculous. You could find a weekday guild, or just a few people on a friends list you know aren't stupid. Its completely ludicrous to try and hold the whole of this game's community to any arbitrary standard of knowledge or skill. Its your job to find who you do and dont play well with.

 

You rely so heavily on the group component of this game, but want nothing to do with the actual interacting with people. That is unrealistic. I dont have time to raid, so i stopped trying. I wouldn't want them to make that **** easier, or cater to my part-time play schedule. I'm perfectly fine avoiding FPs and such, playing solo. I just really dont understand.

 

How the hell is the PuG argument holding any water what so ever? You want to raid with 15 other people but can't be bothered to form the necessary player base? You sure raiding and OPs are where you should be then?

 

How can you be so focused on group content, while trying to ignore the social component? ***? I ignore the social component, but i dont CARE for the online component of this game. If you want the MMO style of play, you should embrace the social, making friends aspect of online gaming.

 

do a pug, get 1 good player, talk to that player, whisper them directly next time you want to group up, dont just say 'bye' and never talk to them again. what kind of weird *** 1 player MMO format have we created?

 

 

edit: forgot to touch on, even if they did make it class missions up to 60, its still a very watered down version of what MANY MANY other MMOS offer in the form of a buy-level-cap service.

 

The 198 pve gear and top tier pvp gear, was what i meant when i said, you'd still have to do get those things once you hit level cap, and as such was not much of an advantage. being handed gear is contrary to the carrot and stick model MMOs provide, removes both motivation to play and the reward for success. And would be meaningless to all the people who want this function as a means of playing through the story lines as their characters would go untouched once the story concluded. NO ONE is talking about handing out free gear. definition of straw man.

 

You want to be able to avoid the part(s) of the game you do not find "fun", namely the leveling process,

yet still be rewarded with a high level character as if you had leveled it as the game is designed. You seem to think that just because you already leveled one character, or even a few characters, that you should not have to do it on future alts.

 

In the next breath, though, you want to deny others the same opportunity to avoid the part(s) of the game they may not find "sun" (such as the gear grind at end game), and still be able to reap the rewards as if they had done that gear grind with that character. A player who has done the gear grind on one character, or even a few characters, may not find that gear grind to be "fun", yet you want to deny them the opportunity to reap the rewards of the "gear grind" on future alts without having to do the "gear grind" on those alts.

 

You insist that they play the game "your way", while deriding those who are against 12XP for trying to force you to play the game "their way". You want to claim "carrot on a stick". Well, the "carrot on a stick" applies to the leveling process also. The carrot in the "gear grind" is the better gear, but the carrot in the leveling process is that high level character.

 

Why is it ok for you to reap the rewards while avoiding the part of the game that you do not find fun, the leveling process, but not ok for others to have the same opportunity to reap the rewards while avoiding the part(s) of the game they do not enjoy?

 

 

I doubt there are many players who like EVERY activity in the game. If you do not like a given part of the game or activity within the game, then do not engage in that activity. You should not expect to reap the rewards of that activity if you choose not to engage in that activity, though.

[ekwalizer]

I'm sorry catering to PUGs is just ridiculous. You could find a weekday guild, or just a few people on a friends list you know aren't stupid. Its completely ludicrous to try and hold the whole of this game's community to any arbitrary standard of knowledge or skill. Its your job to find who you do and dont play well with.

 

You rely so heavily on the group component of this game, but want nothing to do with the actual interacting with people. That is unrealistic. I dont have time to raid, so i stopped trying. I wouldn't want them to make that **** easier, or cater to my part-time play schedule. I'm perfectly fine avoiding FPs and such, playing solo. I just really dont understand.

 

How the hell is the PuG argument holding any water what so ever? You want to raid with 15 other people but can't be bothered to form the necessary player base? You sure raiding and OPs are where you should be then?

 

How can you be so focused on group content, while trying to ignore the social component? ***? I ignore the social component, but i dont CARE for the online component of this game. If you want the MMO style of play, you should embrace the social, making friends aspect of online gaming.

 

do a pug, get 1 good player, talk to that player, whisper them directly next time you want to group up, dont just say 'bye' and never talk to them again. what kind of weird *** 1 player MMO format have we created?

 

 

edit: forgot to touch on, even if they did make it class missions up to 60, its still a very watered down version of what MANY MANY other MMOS offer in the form of a buy-level-cap service.

 

The 198 pve gear and top tier pvp gear, was what i meant when i said, you'd still have to do get those things once you hit level cap, and as such was not much of an advantage. being handed gear is contrary to the carrot and stick model MMOs provide, removes both motivation to play and the reward for success. And would be meaningless to all the people who want this function as a means of playing through the story lines as their characters would go untouched once the story concluded. NO ONE is talking about handing out free gear. definition of straw man.

 

By your own admission you do not engage in any form of group content, so I find your opinion on "grouping" to be irrelevant. Especially in regard to how *I* feel about and use the Group Finder.

 

Again, whether YOU like it or not the Group Finder is part of the game ... and so is leveling.

[Edzew]

That is absolutely false due to the way that the main arc of Makeb, Oricon, Rishi and Yavin work. The vast majority of questing on those planets are counted as Class missions. So, no, it is not "until about 50".

 

 

 

It will also ensure that a herd of fresh-60s arrive in the queues without proper gear. We are still seeing rapid levelers (whether 12XP or 2XP or no XP bonus) on planets like Corellia asking questions best answered on Dromund Kass/Coruscant. While not having 12Xp does not negate this problem, having it will certainly exasperate it.

 

 

 

That is absolutely correct, It is a detriment to most players. They arrive ill prepared at end game and are left with a very bad taste in their mouths either from other players belittling them or by simply not being able to compete. What's worse, most of them do not know what they need to do to gain the gear required.

 

 

 

For many players Pugging is their only option due to their schedule. I primarily play during the business week. I do raid with my guild on the weekends, but if I want to do anything end-game related in PvE during 80% of when I actually play - it is with a PuG. You can sit there and try to lord over all you survey but the fact remains that many players do not want to be just another random member of a super massive guild.

 

 

 

I agree with this, I rarely queue up my tanks for a random GF because of all the bads. But, none of that has anything to do with 12XP; except that it will more quickly produce bads.

 

Whether you like the GF is irrelevant. It is a feature of the game. It certainly could use some improvements on the development side of the house such as a real gearscore check.

 

no matter how a person gets to end game they will be under geared and have no clue as to what they are doing in PVP areas or in pugs. there will be more if there is 12x XP because there will be more people playing just like before. what would you rather have?? fewer and fewer people doing those things or have a steady flow of new players coming in??? that is what it will come down to.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Edzew

[EyesOfRed]

I support a game that is fun for hardcores and casuals. And i only play THIS game as a solo NOW. I have been a bleeding edge progression raider for years, and have more than 1 server first to my credit. I know how MMOs work, Im playing this differently, as is the case for many people playing this particular game.

 

you seem to want to omit all of those players, most of who will never queue with you anyway.

 

My view on group dynamics come from years of experience. The group game should remain unchanged. It should revolve around groups of players. I wish to enjoy the single player experience.

 

you want to engage in group play as an individual. that's.... odd.

 

do group stuff with groups, or play solo content alone. Not rely on strangers to tank / heal / dps whatever because I HAVE to do group stuff but just cant BOTHER to make a friend. Every problem you have with 12x, 2x etc. w/e can be remedied by you not relying on pugs to progress. if there was no GF, there'd be no issue.

Edited April 13, 2015 by EyesOfRed

[ChickenWangs]

12x should not have become such a controversy. Period. I know plenty of people who play this game like an MMO. They play it like WoW. Bang your head repeatedly against your desk until you produce a max level character. It's an extremely boring and tedious process, and it's why I quit WoW after Panderia. The leveling process sucks in WoW. But the leveling process doesn't just suck in WoW, it sucks in a lot of games. GW2 has an extremely repetitive leveling process. The only thing that holds a person's interest in the game is the World V world and even that has gone down the tubes due to guilds being paid to win WvW. Star Trek Online has a poor leveling process (that they have since alleviated by accelerating XP gain which has worked wonders for making new characters) so once you have a character in each profession there is no point in making more characters.

 

This all brings me to my point about TOR leveling. TOR's repetitive leveling process is boring. But TOR has an opportunity to freshen up the leveling process. The class stories for the most part are the most compelling reason to participate in the leveling process. I don't feel a sense of accomplishment from seeing a LEVEL 60 flash on the screen, I feel a sense of accomplishment from (insert class story ending here). Let people experience the Bioware story making ability. Stop making us experience the repetitive and basic MMO leveling experience.

[Djiini]

no matter how a person gets to end game they will be under geared and have no clue as to what they are doing in PVP areas or in pugs. there will be more if there is 12x XP because there will be more people playing just like before. what would you rather have?? fewer and fewer people doing those things or have a steady flow of new players coming in??? that is what it will come down to.

 

Wrong again!

 

They're changing it so story quests give out 8 commendations each.

 

And it does not take the full 60 levels to learn how to play your class, no matter what you think.

 

Finally, PVE has literally nothing to do with learning PVP, so.

[Ratajack]

Wrong again!

 

They're changing it so story quests give out 8 commendations each.

 

And it does not take the full 60 levels to learn how to play your class, no matter what you think.

 

Finally, PVE has literally nothing to do with learning PVP, so.

 

The story quests are giving 8 commendations on the PTS, if I understand correctly. There has been nothing to indicate that that will be the case when the new patch goes live, though.

 

I'm not going to say it won't, but I wouldn't be making any assumptions that it will, either.

[Djiini]

The story quests are giving 8 commendations on the PTS, if I understand correctly. There has been nothing to indicate that that will be the case when the new patch goes live, though.

 

I'm not going to say it won't, but I wouldn't be making any assumptions that it will, either.

 

Right, but the point I was refuting only works if 12x goes live WITHOUT the commendations.

I feel it's safe to assume if one comes out, the other will, too.

You feel me?