12 x XP for class-missions

[Seldan]

I would play MORE if they had 12xXP as a bonus. Right now, if I'm on lockout with my main toon, I don't even consider going on an alt (unless it's with my guild). Giving me a way to quickly add another 60 that I prefer to play to my list of characters would allow me to do more in-game, rater than just log.

 

I have every Advanced Class in the game, even mirrors. I would purchase a 12XP Class Story boost for my future alts.

 

I would like to see 12XP implemented as a CM Consumable or Legacy perk, require a subscription and a Legacy

Level requirement.

[Seldan]

If you were not too lazy to level that alt, you could likely have had that 60 by now.

 

I think we all know that LAZINESS is the driving force behind much of the demand for a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level", though.

 

I disagree. It's not lazy to avoid boring, repetitive tasks.

 

The Planetary quest chains are not challenging content, they are tedious after several runs. Where is the effort involved?

 

The only effort in completing the a planetary chain for the Nth playthrough is dealing with tedium and excessive travel time. Is that good game design to you?

 

Now, the Class Stories are not challenging either, however they are ( subjectively ) better written than the Planetary/side quests, with more interesting choices and NPC. They are the centerpiece of the leveling process, a major selling point of the game.

 

If someone finds the Planetary quest chains interesting ( or a challenge ) they can still do that content even with a 12XP boost, or they can choose not to purchase the boost.

 

12XP crowd is providing players with a choice.

[CloudCastle]

Seriously, I don't even really think we need 12x. I'd be plenty happy if the story quests just scaled with your character level. Like how the Rakghoul event works. This would even be good for people who level through pvp like I do, as when they go to do the class quests they won't be ridiculously overlevelled.

 

I think what you are suggesting is that people level the normal way to 60, basically skipping the class quests, then when they are 60, they go back and do them all in order, so they get the streamlined experience. Do I have that right?

 

I'm not sure how this would work when it comes to companions. You'd be stuck with your first companion for your entire leveling experience, which can be hard for certain classes, depending on what companion they get first. You'd also miss out on the planetary quest companion dialog with all companions except the first, so you would be giving up lots of story opportunities there. (Since with this method, you'd be doing these anyway.)

 

This method would allow you to see the class story in one chunk, but it wouldn't eliminate the grind of leveling up a new alt. You'd still have to get though all the old quests again that you are sick of seeing for the umpteenth time which defeats some of the purpose right there.

 

I can see how it could be fun to have your class story missions scaled however. I have considered doing something like what you suggested with my second bounty hunter, especially since I was planning to use Mako throughout his leveling anyway. I'm just not sure I have the discipline to walk right on by my class quest areas during planet after planet, knowing they are right there. It feels inefficient. I also wonder if I would have trouble staying on level without doing those quests while leveling. It might be worth trying though. I hate the way the story gets broken up.

Edited March 22, 2015 by CloudCastle

[Ratajack]

I disagree. It's not lazy to avoid boring, repetitive tasks.

The Planetary quest chains are not challenging content, they are tedious after several runs. Where is the effort involved?

 

The only effort in completing the a planetary chain for the Nth playthrough is dealing with tedium and excessive travel time. Is that good game design to you?

 

Now, the Class Stories are not challenging either, however they are ( subjectively ) better written than the Planetary/side quests, with more interesting choices and NPC. They are the centerpiece of the leveling process, a major selling point of the game.

 

If someone finds the Planetary quest chains interesting ( or a challenge ) they can still do that content even with a 12XP boost, or they can choose not to purchase the boost.

 

12XP crowd is providing players with a choice.

 

You don't want to put forth the effort to level those new alts by calling it boring?

 

Try to justify your LAZINESS (aversion to effort, even minimal effort) all you want, but in the end it is still LAZINESS. You are too averse to the minimal effort required to level those characters and so you want a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass means to max level". LAZINESS is the driving force behind your desire for this "light speed, easy mode, fast pass means to max level".

 

What do you think about the suggestion that someone made earlier to allow the creation of max level characters on the PTS? This would allow you to experience all those stories without having to worry about all those pesky "boring" side quests. You could just go straight through all those class stories.

[SpartanNSeven]

I think what you are suggesting is that people level the normal way to 60, basically skipping the class quests, then when they are 60, they go back and do them all in order, so they get the streamlined experience. Do I have that right?

 

I'm not sure how this would work when it comes to companions. You'd be stuck with your first companion for your entire leveling experience, which can be hard for certain classes, depending on what companion they get first. You'd also miss out on the planetary quest companion dialog with all companions except the first, so you would be giving up lots of story opportunities there. (Since with this method, you'd be doing these anyway.)

 

This method would allow you to see the class story in one chunk, but it wouldn't eliminate the grind of leveling up a new alt. You'd still have to get though all the old quests again that you are sick of seeing for the umpteenth time which defeats some of the purpose right there.

 

I can see how it could be fun to have your class story missions scaled however. I have considered doing something like what you suggested with my second bounty hunter, especially since I was planning to use Mako throughout his leveling anyway. I'm just not sure I have the discipline to walk right on by my class quest areas during planet after planet, knowing they are right there. It feels inefficient. I also wonder if I would have trouble staying on level without doing those quests while leveling. It might be worth trying though. I hate the way the story gets broken up.

 

I read it as being able to do the class missions all the way through right from the start and potentially finishing the story at a lower level. I know this has many flaws though currently and would require a fair few changes to the game but I still feel it would be quite cool.

[sumthingkreative]

A slow leveling experience that makes new players who not want to jump back in and not be able to play with friends is not healthy for the game. 12x XP for class missions would be an overall healthy way to lure new players back in.

[Ratajack]

I think what you are suggesting is that people level the normal way to 60, basically skipping the class quests, then when they are 60, they go back and do them all in order, so they get the streamlined experience. Do I have that right?

 

I'm not sure how this would work when it comes to companions. You'd be stuck with your first companion for your entire leveling experience, which can be hard for certain classes, depending on what companion they get first. You'd also miss out on the planetary quest companion dialog with all companions except the first, so you would be giving up lots of story opportunities there. (Since with this method, you'd be doing these anyway.)

 

This method would allow you to see the class story in one chunk, but it wouldn't eliminate the grind of leveling up a new alt. You'd still have to get though all the old quests again that you are sick of seeing for the umpteenth time which defeats some of the purpose right there.

 

I can see how it could be fun to have your class story missions scaled however. I have considered doing something like what you suggested with my second bounty hunter, especially since I was planning to use Mako throughout his leveling anyway. I'm just not sure I have the discipline to walk right on by my class quest areas during planet after planet, knowing they are right there. It feels inefficient. I also wonder if I would have trouble staying on level without doing those quests while leveling. It might be worth trying though. I hate the way the story gets broken up.

 

I think by scaling, he means make the story quest mobs appropriate to your level, whatever that level is.

 

The only problem with this is that if you sufficiently under level the planet's mobs, it would make life difficult traveling between quest locations.

 

I much prefer the suggestion that someone else made to allow the instant creation of max level characters ON THE PTS. I think this is a fair compromise for those that truly are only interested in the stories. This would allow those who truly are only interested in the stories to experience those stories uninterrupted.

 

It would also not allow the "light speed, easy mode, fast path to max level" in the live game. If your true goal is to have that max level, or high level, character in the live game, then you can put forth the minimal effort to level that character.

[SelinaH]

I think what you are suggesting is that people level the normal way to 60, basically skipping the class quests, then when they are 60, they go back and do them all in order, so they get the streamlined experience. Do I have that right?

This is not how I read it. When people suggest "scaling," it generally means having the content self-adjust, in this case to the character's current level. So you'd be technically under-leveled for most of the class storyline, but functionally it wouldn't matter because level 20, 30, or 40 (for example) class quests would have an appropriate difficulty for your lower-level character.

 

It does mean that when you finished the storyline, you would still have to do other content to catch up on levels.

[Ratajack]

A slow leveling experience that makes new players who not want to jump back in and not be able to play with friends is not healthy for the game. 12x XP for class missions would be an overall healthy way to lure new players back in.

 

Or, higher level friends could actually <gasp> put forth a modicum of effort and help those new, or returning, players to level. That is, if they are not too lazy to do so.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Ratajack

[SelinaH]

Or, higher level friends could actually <gasp> put forth a modicum of effort and help those new, or returning, players to level. That is, if they are not too lazy to do so.

This would be a lot easier if they'd implemented some sort of exemplar or mentoring system, allowing the higher-level character to temporarily play at a lower level. I don't like trashing my friends' XP or completely negating any challenges they might encounter, so I tend to either stand back until they're having trouble, or just heal.

 

It'd be nice if we could actually play as a team, because a new player typically isn't going to learn good group dynamics with a pocket 60.

[Ratajack]

This would be a lot easier if they'd implemented some sort of exemplar or mentoring system, allowing the higher-level character to temporarily play at a lower level. I don't like trashing my friends' XP or completely negating any challenges they might encounter, so I tend to either stand back until they're having trouble, or just heal.

 

It'd be nice if we could actually play as a team, because a new player typically isn't going to learn good group dynamics with a pocket 60.

 

I see nothing stopping you from creating a new character and leveling that with your friend. This would keep both of you at about the same level, thereby not impacting the challenge, XP, or learning about good group dynamics. In fact, it would provide additional experience with group dynamics, thereby making the leveling experience that much more fruitful.

 

This presumes, of course, that the true desire is to help your friend and provide incentive to play, and not simply to have a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level".

[Edzew]

If you were not too lazy to level that alt, you could likely have had that 60 by now.

 

I think we all know that LAZINESS is the driving force behind much of the demand for a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level", though.

 

its not being lazy its being bored out of your freakin mind!!!! laziness has nothing to do with it at all. the side fluff planetary quests are soooooooooo boring after a point you just dont even want to mess with it at all.

[Sjax]

"Did you guys play kotor 1 and 2 wishing it was arbitrarily dragged out, with awful pacing, and was mostly non plot relevant filler quests?

 

I know this is an mmo, but there's huge untapped market that STILL wants kotor 3. This games been in steady decline since launch, can we stop pretending is going to be some super relevant competitive mmo?"

 

 

This

[EnkiduNineEight]

its not being lazy its being bored out of your freakin mind!!!! laziness has nothing to do with it at all. the side fluff planetary quests are soooooooooo boring after a point you just dont even want to mess with it at all.

 

If you are unwilling to put for the effort to achieve an end then you are lazy. You can attempt to justify it, "But doing X is BORING!" but the root of your objection is that the work that needs to be done to achieve your end is something you do not want to do. Thus, Lazy by the very definition of the word.

 

You'll also note, people opposed to 12x aren't saying that you _HAVE_ to do the planetary quests (Though its nice when you do and help engage new players, specifically the heroics etc) they are just stating you should not receive a huge boost to experience that significantly reduces the time and effort investment from the "time + effort = reward" equation that is part of the leveling system in an RPG/MMO RPG.

 

You want a reward that you gateway behind some arbitrary achievements that significantly reduces the time portion and the effort portion but still arrives at the reward portion. This is not only lazy, but entitled (past efforts should rewarded me additional rewards beyond their base reward) and selfish/elitist (I'll set the reward levels such that they'll be very difficult for the new player to achieve but because the game has been out three years I already meet these arbitrary standards)

 

The very root of the request though is the belief that the supporters of 12x should not have to put forth the effort it took to make their first character and run them through the story as they do with subsequent characters. EG.. They don't want to do the work again, and by not wanting to do the work, they exhibit that they are 'Lazy', again by the very definition of the word.

 

You are already rewarded by the systems in place and it is already easier to make subsequent characters and get them to the end of the story/to the end game raiding/to the end game pvp etc. No additional reward is necessary especially because of the gulf it creates (exacerbates actually) between a new players experience and a veteran players experience.

Edited March 23, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[Seldan]

If you are unwilling to put for the effort to achieve an end then you are lazy. You can attempt to justify it, "But doing X is BORING!" but the root of your objection is that the work that needs to be done to achieve your end is something you do not want to do. Thus, Lazy by the very definition of the word.

 

You'll also note, people opposed to 12x aren't saying that you _HAVE_ to do the planetary quests (Though its nice when you do and help engage new players, specifically the heroics etc) they are just stating you should not receive a huge boost to experience that significantly reduces the time and effort investment from the "time + effort = reward" equation that is part of the leveling system in an RPG/MMO RPG.

 

You want a reward that you gateway behind some arbitrary achievements that significantly reduces the time portion and the effort portion but still arrives at the reward portion. This is not only lazy, but entitled (past efforts should rewarded me additional rewards beyond their base reward) and selfish/elitist (I'll set the reward levels such that they'll be very difficult for the new player to achieve but because the game has been out three years I already meet these arbitrary standards)

 

The very root of the request though is the belief that the supporters of 12x should not have to put forth the effort it took to make their first character and run them through the story as they do with subsequent characters. EG.. They don't want to do the work again, and by not wanting to do the work, they exhibit that they are 'Lazy', again by the very definition of the word.

 

You are already rewarded by the systems in place and it is already easier to make subsequent characters and get them to the end of the story/to the end game raiding/to the end game pvp etc. No additional reward is necessary especially because of the gulf it creates (exacerbates actually) between a new players experience and a veteran players experience.

 

I disagree.

 

Where is the effort in completing the planetary question chains/side quests for the Nth playthrough? The only effort is dealing with the boredom - is that good game design, in your view?

 

Flashpoints (which really means KDY 15-54), same issue.

 

You want a reward that you gateway behind some arbitrary achievements that significantly reduces the time portion and the effort portion but still arrives at the reward portion.

 

The very root of the request though is the belief that the supporters of 12x should not have to put forth the effort it took to make their first character and run them through the story as they do with subsequent characters.

 

And yet, this is a common feature of other MMOs. WoW introduced heirlooms ( which they recently made even more accessible to players ) and character boosts. Rift offers 20/40/80% xp potions.

 

Most of the concerns of the anti-12xp crowd have been stated before when WoW introduced heirlooms and character boosts. These features did not harm the leveling content or endgame - they helped inject life into it by providing players an incentive to roll alts (just as the 2XP/12XP events).

 

How did that punitive grind and attunement process work out for Wildstar ( est 90K subscriptions )?

 

No additional reward is necessary especially because of the gulf it creates (exacerbates actually) between a new players experience and a veteran players experience.

 

As opposed to players not rolling alts?

[TUXs]

If you were not too lazy to level that alt, you could likely have had that 60 by now.

 

I think we all know that LAZINESS is the driving force behind much of the demand for a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level", though.

"Lazy"?!

 

Wait wait wait lol, so you're saying that because I'm not interested in sitting on my rear for any significant length of time, leveling a class I already have 2 of and duplicating every mission I've ever done, I'm "lazy"?

 

I think you have that backwards...if your life is so boring that you would rather waste it in front of a computer screen doing the same thing over and over and over and over again, perhaps YOU are the lazy one.

 

I have better things to do than waste my time like that. I guess you don't huh? This is "fun" to you?! Wow...how pathetic...

[EllieAnne]

You don't want to put forth the effort to level those new alts by calling it boring?

 

Try to justify your LAZINESS (aversion to effort, even minimal effort) all you want, but in the end it is still LAZINESS.

 

So you're saying that grinding out EIGHT toons all the way to 60 without the benefit of 12xXP is lazy?

Maybe you should stop being lazy and come up with a new argument.

And even if someone is doing it out of laziness, why do you care?

Or are you too lazy to answer these questions?

[Ratajack]

"Lazy"?!

 

Wait wait wait lol, so you're saying that because I'm not interested in sitting on my rear for any significant length of time, leveling a class I already have 2 of and duplicating every mission I've ever done, I'm "lazy"?

 

I think you have that backwards...if your life is so boring that you would rather waste it in front of a computer screen doing the same thing over and over and over and over again, perhaps YOU are the lazy one.

 

I have better things to do than waste my time like that. I guess you don't huh? This is "fun" to you?! Wow...how pathetic...

 

Laziness is defined as "an aversion to effort". It makes no difference if what that effort is or would entail.

 

As someone else pointed out, if you are unwilling to put forth the minimal effort to level those alts, then by definition that would be laziness.

 

You can try to justify your aversion to the effort of leveling those alts you want, but that does not change the fact that that aversion to the effort of leveling those alts is laziness.

 

As far as having nothing better to do with my time? Let's see. I work 50+ hours a week. I bowl at least three nights a week. I have numerous other familial obligations on my time. I'm lucky if I get to play 3 or 4r hours a week. Unlike some players, I do not, however, think that my RL activities entitle me to a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level", even though I have done all those pesky planetary side quests and run KDY til my eyes bled. I do not have to have that new 60 in two days. I know it may take some time, but I will get those alts leveled.

[Ratajack]

So you're saying that grinding out EIGHT toons all the way to 60 without the benefit of 12xXP is lazy?

Maybe you should stop being lazy and come up with a new argument.

And even if someone is doing it out of laziness, why do you care?

Or are you too lazy to answer these questions?

 

Effort put forth in the past does not necessarily negate laziness in the present.

 

"Grinding" out those 8 characters in the past without 12XP would not be lazy. Demanding a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" simply so that you can avoid the effort required to level those new alts would be laziness as that demonstrates an aversion to the effort required to level those alts.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Ratajack

[TUXs]

So you're saying that grinding out EIGHT toons all the way to 60 without the benefit of 12xXP is lazy?

Maybe you should stop being lazy and come up with a new argument.

And even if someone is doing it out of laziness, why do you care?

Or are you too lazy to answer these questions?

 

Agreed. He's using the word "lazy" to describe people who don't want to waste their time in front of their computer screen, doing the same stuff they've already done, over and over and over...to me, it's the other way around...and that's fine...I have no issue with him wanting to spend that amount of time on his rear in front of his computer...but that's not for me. My online time is limited and I'd rather use my time to do stuff I enjoy.

[TUXs]

Laziness is defined as "an aversion to effort". It makes no difference if what that effort is or would entail.

 

As someone else pointed out, if you are unwilling to put forth the minimal effort to level those alts, then by definition that would be laziness.

 

You can try to justify your aversion to the effort of leveling those alts you want, but that does not change the fact that that aversion to the effort of leveling those alts is laziness.

 

As far as having nothing better to do with my time? Let's see. I work 50+ hours a week. I bowl at least three nights a week. I have numerous other familial obligations on my time. I'm lucky if I get to play 3 or 4r hours a week. Unlike some players, I do not, however, think that my RL activities entitle me to a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level", even though I have done all those pesky planetary side quests and run KDY til my eyes bled. I do not have to have that new 60 in two days. I know it may take some time, but I will get those alts leveled.

Uh huh lol, of course you do and are...

 

I'm playing a video game to relax and have fun, this isn't about being lazy, it's about what I find entertaining.

[Ratajack]

Uh huh lol, of course you do and are...

 

I'm playing a video game to relax and have fun, this isn't about being lazy, it's about what I find entertaining.

 

As I said, try to justify that aversion to the minimal effort required to level those alts all you want.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Ratajack

[TUXs]

As I said, try to justify that aversion to the minimal effort required to level those alts all you want.

As I said, this is entertainment...leveling isn't entertaining to me. I'm glad you find it fun - I don't.

[Ratajack]

As I said, this is entertainment...leveling isn't entertaining to me. I'm glad you find it fun - I don't.

 

An aversion to effort by any other name is STILL an aversion to effort.

[EllieAnne]

The very root of the request though is the belief that the supporters of 12x should not have to put forth the effort it took to make their first character and run them through the story as they do with subsequent characters. EG.. They don't want to do the work again, and by not wanting to do the work, they exhibit that they are 'Lazy', again by the very definition of the word.

 

Unless I missed it, you have NEVER addressed the point I made. Most MMO have just a few story lines. SWTOR has at least ten. Isn't that a fundamental difference that needs to be part of the discussion i.e. there is a difference between grinding out 3-4 stories and grinding 10 or more out?