Bachannal Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 no worries, I think i will start creating my own PUGs calling: LFG Ravagers SM, "NO achievement" required. Ofc, there IS an absolute minimun like 186 gear. Guides are up, so, what's the problem? I am in some pretty active guilds, and I still pug like that...why? Because this is supposed to be a community, so acting like it is, well - just makes sense. Is it fun to wipe on any FP or OP? No. But I find that when you're not in a group of "leet" mmo folks who aren't so concerned with everything being 100% perfect and who has "cheevos" so that they can get their shinies at the end of the OP, you can wind up having a lot of fun, and at least to me...sometimes the rewards are worth more when you got them with a ragtag bunch instead of cruising in with your pre-selected raid team who already knows all of the fight back to front and they roll through like it's a routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) When I see "LFG S&V..." I start thinking if I should... At 60 in 186 with some 192 and more importantly willing to learn the boss fights, "Why not?"... But then I see "... must have achievements" and I continue whatever I was doing before I got distracted. Edited February 20, 2015 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbears Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 What server are all these clowns on that say "must have achievement" lol. I've never seen that on The Bastion. On The Bastion it's just common place to require some sort of voice chat. Which IMO is completely reasonable. You don't have to talk if you're shy. But just being able to listen for directions during boss fights make it so much smoother. I'd much rather take someone WITHOUT the achievements but is willing to get in voice chat than vice-versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 What server are all these clowns on that say "must have achievement" lol. I've never seen that on The Bastion. I see plenty on the Red Eclipse. Though it's NOT something I go for, I don't see what's the issue exactly. People's time is limited and as such, they try to find one or two people to fill the ranks that can actually do the content. If you want to learn the ropes, check Dulfy or join a guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) I see plenty on the Red Eclipse. Though it's NOT something I go for, I don't see what's the issue exactly. People's time is limited and as such, they try to find one or two people to fill the ranks that can actually do the content. If you want to learn the ropes, check Dulfy or join a guild. Yes, but at the same time we see threads like "PUG ops is dead!" etc. I didn't know you can get achievements by reading guides. Edited February 20, 2015 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I didn't know you can get achievements by reading guides. My statement may require basic deduction skills. Something you apparently lack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 My statement may require basic deduction skills. Something you apparently lack. There's a difference between reading guide and actually doing the operation. For some reason, I think "I don't have achievements but can I still join if I've read guide on Dulfy's site?" isn't going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) There's a difference between reading guide and actually doing the operation. For some reason, I think "I don't have achievements but can I still join if I've read guide on Dulfy's site?" isn't going to work. As I said, one thing usually leads to the other, namely learning the ropes, via a guild or by resorting to Dulfy, starting the operation, finishing the operation and unlocking the achievement -- all part of a NOT so complex chain of events. Hence, basic deduction skills. I assumed it wasn't warranted to explain the full process. I may have been in error, by giving some people too much credit apparently. Or indulging trolls for that matter. Edited February 20, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'd be content with there being more than 80 people on fleet at primetime on pot5, forget about pug ops... how about some ranked pops.. Waited up to 30 mins a few times this week, no pops, logged, gg. On topic though, yeah fleet op spam is pretty rare compared to what it used to be. I was wondering what the story was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) As I said, one thing usually leads to the other, namely learning the ropes, via a guild or by resorting to Dulfy, starting the operation, finishing the operation and unlocking the achievement -- all part of a NOT so complex chain of events. Hence, basic deduction skills. I assumed it wasn't warranted to explain the full process. I may have been in error, by giving some people too much credit apparently. Or indulging trolls for that matter. No, it's not going to work with these "must have achievements" players. For example I don't have any achievements for LI SM but I've completed HM at least 3 times (only once in group). These players wouldn't accept me to group for LI SM. Why? Because I don't have any of the achievements from correct difficulty. Edited February 20, 2015 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavolio Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) "must link achievement" To this day it still strikes me funny that people insist on flexing......well let's not get far into that topic, Still trying to figure out what's so hard about not standing in and/or being stuck on stupid. Edited February 20, 2015 by Mavolio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipacnaa Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I admit it: I've not read the entire thread. However, the first game I bought myself and played was Zork. For those that do not know: Zork was text based. There were no guides, no Huugle, Bling or Doohoo to turn to. Wonders over wonders: I still beat the games I played. No way am I going to go "look up" a games strategy, or an OP's strategy according to Dulfy, before running it. Where on earth is the fun in that ? As to the conundrum that is: no group without achievement, and no achievement without group: it's an obvious downside to the achievement system but if it spares me running with the recent influx of F2P numb-nuts I'm happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Przemo_No Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 speaking about the guides: One thing is to read them or even see how other do it on YT, another is doing it on your own. My own experience tells me than no matter what is told/seen by the others, your own play time is different, always. If particular boss does "the red circle and stuns the tank" you know you need to avoid it or maybe countermeasure, but only when you "feel" it on your character, you actually know what CAN you do and what is actually POSSIBLE to do in that paricular moment. and those differ On the other hand: someone must have done those OPS first time NOT knowing HOW to do this or that. and only by LEARNING they put the guides together and publish to help others. Those pionieers also must have died few times. Then why others do not want to? And thrid aspect: I come form games where you enjoy the "surprise". Doing OPS after you have seen how it is done by others, takes away 70% of the pleasure for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 No, it's not going to work with these "must have achievements" players. Nor should it. For example I don't have any achievements for LI SM but I've completed HM at least 3 times (only once in group). These players wouldn't accept me to group for LI SM. Why? Because I don't have any of the achievements from correct difficulty. That really don't make any sense, unless those people are as dumb as dumb can be, and fail to realize that HM is harder than SM. Or maybe you unintentionally swapped HM for SM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I have found a lot of pugs on Ebon Hawk, personally. However, every 16M ToS pug has been an absolute disaster, most especially at Underlurker. The average skill level of players in SWTOR is very very low and people do not seem capable of learning from their mistakes very well. There are a lot of people just "trying" the ops without doing research (very much like people joining ranked without getting ranked gear). Lazy people just taking a stab at the operations and then getting frustrated or frustrating the people they dragged along. Even some of the progression guilds have voiced their concerns about the level difficulty of the new ops. It's not just the new ops that are the problem, though. Nerfing the comms drops on old operations was a bad idea, you only have two worthwhile operations now. They should have just scaled down the rewards and not just completely removed the ultimate comms from DF/DP/TFB/S&V. Those should still give a weekly reward of some ultimate comms, just not a lot. If you remove all the ultimate comms, there is no longer an incentive. People are lookign for ultimate comms, not basic comms. Basic comms are turning into trash now with even companions getting geared from Yavin. It's really more poorly thought out decision making that they need to go back and revisit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Or maybe you unintentionally swapped HM for SM? Nope, I got numbers wrong though. http://i.imgur.com/DZm1jwF.png Lorrick: 1 kill (solo) But I've done all other bosses twice on Progenitor. 1 complete run in group on TRE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeinChurro Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) The new operations are too difficult to PUG, for most randoms on fleet. 16 players is too hard to form (at least on the pvp server(s)). Old operations have no reward for doing them (Except chance of decorations). 16m GF did not fix the supposed people forming premade on fleet then queuing for rewards + bolster, so I don't know what they were expecting. Ever since 16m Republic side, at least on my server, has gone down the drain. Nobody does anything anymore. When people do do anything it is a closed (coordinated) guild run. Don't expect to PUG anything anymore (except for MAYBE flashpoints). Those days are over. Republic side is dead on my server, if you are playing on a pvp server, or thinking of playing that. I wish it wasn't so, but it is. It looks like I will have to go back to my roots if I want a chance to do anything other than level characters. People don't queue gf operations anyway, even on Imperial side. If I didn't like the option of open world PvP I would transfer. Edited February 20, 2015 by MeinChurro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantboi Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 There's a difference between reading guide and actually doing the operation. For some reason, I think "I don't have achievements but can I still join if I've read guide on Dulfy's site?" isn't going to work. but you can read guides and start your own group. it's still pretty easy to find people for snv and tfb sm because they give good money and depending how good your tank and healer are you might not need 2 of each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherJohn Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 haven't read it all in thread nor will but simple answer for no pugs in fleet. the removal of ultimate comms from ops. I get why they did it in that they want to prolong the time it takes for a player to get 198 vendor gear but the killed off a reason to do the older content, which leaves you with very very little new content. Simple fix, bring back ultimate comms to older SM ops. For those that say you don't deserver ultimate from older sm ops sure I might agree but vendor 198s are not loot schematic 198s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 haven't read it all in thread nor will but simple answer for no pugs in fleet. the removal of ultimate comms from ops. I get why they did it in that they want to prolong the time it takes for a player to get 198 vendor gear but the killed off a reason to do the older content, which leaves you with very very little new content. Simple fix, bring back ultimate comms to older SM ops. For those that say you don't deserver ultimate from older sm ops sure I might agree but vendor 198s are not loot schematic 198s. I did post in here my suggestion along your lines, but that they tier the amount of ultimate comms you get from older content. It's still slower to get them, but say you only get a small amount for 55 ops and even smaller for 50 ops. There is still an incentive but it is noticably smaler (albiet better than nothing). It's really biowares thought process, they completely remove incentive thinking that basic comms and some elite comms might be good enough. No, it wasn't. What do you think of the tiered ultimates approach? Seems like ti would be the best "meet in the middle". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Because 16m loot is broken so there's no reason to have more than 8 i'm quite sure it got fixed..also OP join a decent guild, a lot of them do 16 aswell or form your own pug. if you have enough time, most of the bads will rage quit in a couple of wipes, since they are still used to beying carried from DF/DP era, the others, people willing to help or to play or to listen and learn will stick with it until they have the time. on TRE there are a lot of ''achievments'' runs, but there are also ''geared and tactics'' which might be fullfilled reading a guide and getting decent gear and augmenting it. while i avoid forming ach runs and i can stand some wipe if people are listening and don't get hasty on taking the kill, sometimes you are not in the mood and simply want to farm without wiping. the new ops are enough easy to be pugged but require to follow the tactics. DF/DP could have be done by one tank and some dps carrying all the others, with the new ones is not the case if you have 5-6 dps dying in the first fire vent or not hiding during rage storm. did you stick with a group unable to interupt corruptors or unable to kill MA casting adds in future portal^? Edited February 20, 2015 by JouerTue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 No, it's not going to work with these "must have achievements" players. For example I don't have any achievements for LI SM but I've completed HM at least 3 times (only once in group). These players wouldn't accept me to group for LI SM. Why? Because I don't have any of the achievements from correct difficulty. If they are such dumb a*$es that they wont take a HM achievement over a SM achievement, then your better off not joining them imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) but you can read guides and start your own group. it's still pretty easy to find people for snv and tfb sm because they give good money and depending how good your tank and healer are you might not need 2 of each. And will be the first one to get kicked because of low damage? Slinger: 2-3k Marauder: 1,9k Vanguard 1,3k And those are my best geared characters.... Funny thing is: I still end up tanking unless tank has god mode on. Edited February 23, 2015 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 And will be the first one to get kicked because of low damage? Slinger: 2-3k Marauder: 1,9k Vanguard 1,3k And those are my best geared characters.... Funny thing is: I still end up tanking unless tank has god mode on. i don't get the point..this is your dps parses? you must be geared still badly..do tacticals then HM fp to get an average rating of 186/192 with comms/drops, then join a pug, there's plenty without achievments and the only real barrier to completing the content is gear since you can always learn tactics. pretending to being carried if you have only that kind of numbers without any effort is not right.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 i don't get the point..this is your dps parses? I don't trust those things. Those are average of numbers I see during combat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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