Getting tired of content difficulty, not because of the actual difficulty, but people

[Pirana]

Yeah it was rough in EQ for a long time back in 2003? WoW hit the shelves, the part that was interesting if you look back wow was almost a complete copy of EQ however wow wasn't prepaired for the mass Exodus of EQ, and for about two years wow was nearly unplayable because they lowbid on there servers. They had like 5 hour queues, totaly unstable and it was a big mess. But people in no way wanted anything to do with SOE and with the nerf to SWG, it was the driving nail in the coffin. But they have persevered non the less! The only other game with longevity that stomps both games is EA's UO! Now that game was rough back in 1995!

 

Sorry for that brief geek moment in MMO history!

 

Some pretty familiar stories there. One of my oldest friends from the 80's, whom introduced me to SWG in '07, was a long time EQ player, he was there from launch and use to tell me about some of the nightmarish type stories regarding loss of xp, gear and having to run back to find your body.... lol My response to him was always, there's no way in hell I would have stuck around for a game like that. Albeit he refers to it fondly, which I get, you hang around with friends and shoot the sh*t about all the great times. As was mentioned earlier, once WoW came out, his guild along with most of his friends migrated over to Warcraft.

 

EQ is still going strong, along with EQ2, which just released an expansion late last year, and of course EQN sometime in the near future. So obviously there is still a very strong fan base.

[CKNORTH]

Some pretty familiar stories there. One of my oldest friends from the 80's, whom introduced me to SWG in '07, was a long time EQ player, he was there from launch and use to tell me about some of the nightmarish type stories regarding loss of xp, gear and having to run back to find your body.... lol My response to him was always, there's no way in hell I would have stuck around for a game like that. Albeit he refers to it fondly, which I get, you hang around with friends and shoot the sh*t about all the great times. As was mentioned earlier, once WoW came out, his guild along with most of his friends migrated over to Warcraft.

 

EQ is still going strong, along with EQ2, which just released an expansion late last year, and of course EQN sometime in the near future. So obviously there is still a very strong fan base.

 

Haha! Yeah what I find truly amazing though, is the doom and gloom people. They have no idea how desolate EQ became, and is still thriving today. If the past reflects the future this game, wow, and any other title isn't going anywhere for a long long time. As long as their is gamers to play, and fans of SW. I highly doubt it will be unplugged.

 

Also to all you free players who finding the free model hard, just go read on what people had to endure on EQ and then come and rethink your position, as for myself I infact did the three day no sleep corpse runs on raids with full raid of 72 people. Also levelling the most heavily capped race/class in a week to cap on 5-7 hours sleep. Oh and we PAID a sub fee to do those things with multiple accounts..... enjoy!

[Pirana]

And if I'm not mistaken, EQ was the first mmo to introduce massive raids in which you mentioned, the seventy two person ones. My friend has told me time and time again, what a slide show it was, that he had to literally focus his screen on the ground to heal due to the massive lag. Dial-up ftl.

 

To the original post, yeah, there's some pretty tough stuff in this game, bot overall, it's doable. I wouldn't want to endure what those EQ people had to, that's for damn sure.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Pirana

[Papazmurf]

The first MMOs were grinds. Everquest, FFXI, and EvE are games where people complaining about this game would never stand a chance, much less get to a level where they could even raid. At least those games worked though. This game's difficulty seems to be cause by having to face the bugs and the bosses. Maybe I'm wearing rose tinted glasses.

[CKNORTH]

And if I'm not mistaken, EQ was the first mmo to introduce massive raids in which you mentioned, the seventy two person ones. My friend has told me time and time again, what a slide show it was, that he had to literally focus his screen on the ground to heal due to the massive lag. Dial-up ftl.

 

To the original post, yeah, there's some pretty tough stuff in this game, bot overall, it's doable. I wouldn't want to endure what those EQ people had to, that's for damn sure.

 

Haha yeah 56k dial up Lol!! I am still set in a lot of ways of back then too. I prefer typing in raid Chanel as compared to voice chat Etc. We didn't have a voice chat to use and the entire raid had like 7-9 custom typing Chanel's to see what each group of the raid team was doing and timed abilitys according to call outs and change in strat dynamics! If I ever find a guild who can do that on Harbringer omg it would be my new home!

[CKNORTH]

The first MMOs were grinds. Everquest, FFXI, and EvE are games where people complaining about this game would never stand a chance, much less get to a level where they could even raid. At least those games worked though. This game's difficulty seems to be cause by having to face the bugs and the bosses. Maybe I'm wearing rose tinted glasses.

 

Did you know linage 2 is still going strong too? Sorry if I miss typed it.

[Heat-Wave]

Haha! Yeah what I find truly amazing though, is the doom and gloom people. They have no idea how desolate EQ became, and is still thriving today. If the past reflects the future this game, wow, and any other title isn't going anywhere for a long long time. As long as their is gamers to play, and fans of SW. I highly doubt it will be unplugged.

 

I don't think SWTOR is going to be "unplugged" any time soon, I fully expect the game to still be here in 5 years.

 

What does it really cost to keep running? The servers are paid for, the core development that cost a ton of money is paid for and written off by this point.

 

We'll get minor content updates like SoR every 12 to 18 months, maybe a new daily area and a new operation or two in between those updates.

 

And that's about it. That isn't "dead", but it isn't exactly "thriving" either...

[danielearley]

I hate to admit, I'm in agreement with the OP.

 

Rewards, really worse gear is a reward??????? This needs to be addressed

 

Difficulty - I belong to a guild and I now only run HM with certain guildies as I know they are able to complete them.

There was a time I'd agree to run with anyone as generally we would be able carry a person who plays for fun and for the guild community, rather than have any real ability to actually play. They are now painfully aware of there ability failings and it's making them stop logging in as they feel bad for the rest of the Guild Community, they are also missing out on some of the content...

 

I don't think there needs to be a huge amount of change, but certain bosses need redesigning. They also need to give a reward for completing.

[Sathid]

I have yet to do any,been waiting for them to get readjusted.

[DarthVengeant]

It's making people into quitters, wanting to give up, etc. I like difficulty, but you know what burns me out? Is negative, defeatist attitudes. And I acknowledge that it's brought on by this new content.

 

I for one don't enjoy repeatedly spending over an hour fighting Underlurker and not downing him. I am sick of it, as are other people I know. I know many people who are good players who just don't even want to bother with ToS past the 1st boss. When we pick Story Mode, that is what we should get. And Underlurker is not set to a Story mode setting, I don't care what anyone says, that's the truth. It is not that it is difficult, it is server hitching and game engine mechanics that don't work well. It is bugs and another number of things with 2nd and 3rd boss of ToS that just make you not want to even bother.

 

I am sick of Coratanni bugging out 2-5 times in a row resetting the fight. Tonight our run reset 3 times. I have had it reset 5 times one night. Who wants to set doing a fight over and over and pray to god it doesn't bug? NOT ME!.

 

So, excuse the "negativity" and "defeatist" but this is all on Bioware. Not us. No one want's to waste hours on content that just doesn't work or is designed poorly. I don't pay 15 bucks a month for that. I pay for a game that is supposed to work properly and be designed to handle what the engine and server can handle. 3.0 obviously wasn't designed with that in mind.

Edited March 4, 2015 by DarthVengeant

[Raphael_diSanto]

Haha yeah 56k dial up Lol!! I am still set in a lot of ways of back then too. I prefer typing in raid Chanel as compared to voice chat Etc. We didn't have a voice chat to use and the entire raid had like 7-9 custom typing Chanel's to see what each group of the raid team was doing and timed abilitys according to call outs and change in strat dynamics! If I ever find a guild who can do that on Harbringer omg it would be my new home!

 

Vox in 2000. Pre raid interface. No raid groups. No custom channels. Just group up and use /zone and /ooc to coordinate 60+ people.

 

It was crazy at the time, but frankly, I'm too old for crap like that now, haha.

[Jojomagro]

I for one don't enjoy repeatedly spending over an hour fighting Underlurker and not downing him. I am sick of it, as are other people I know. I know many people who are good players who just don't even want to bother with ToS past the 1st boss. When we pick Story Mode, that is what we should get. And Underlurker is not set to a Story mode setting, I don't care what anyone says, that's the truth. It is not that it is difficult, it is server hitching and game engine mechanics that don't work well. It is bugs and another number of things with 2nd and 3rd boss of ToS that just make you not want to even bother.

 

I am sick of Coratanni bugging out 2-5 times in a row resetting the fight. Tonight our run reset 3 times. I have had it reset 5 times one night. Who wants to set doing a fight over and over and pray to god it doesn't bug? NOT ME!.

 

So, excuse the "negativity" and "defeatist" but this is all on Bioware. Not us. No one want's to waste hours on content that just doesn't work or is designed poorly. I don't pay 15 bucks a month for that. I pay for a game that is supposed to work properly and be designed to handle what the engine and server can handle. 3.0 obviously wasn't designed with that in mind.

 

For Lurker I will admit it is overtuned in comparison to the faceroll that was 2.X SM ops. The trinity comp does seem to be a stretch but you can go 5 dps and be fine. I haven't tried it with 3 healers but that is an option I'd imagine. I am with the OP and think the game is in a good place, apart from bugs of course.

 

I haven't had Cora bug out in nearly a month. Everyone just has to suck it up and put away your pets before you zone out of the MnB fight. IF the door isn't there and you want to be 100% sure she doesn't bug (I have completed it multiple times without the door) zone out and come back and the door should be there.

 

Designed poorly? You mean you have to know your class and utilize cooldowns effectively? I know for a fact that people who correctly utilize procs and abilities, group for AoE heals, and know all aspects of their discipline can complete Lurker on their second and third alts. Albeit, the Lurker cross was very wonky and to me, was the only thing horrendously wrong with 3.0 OPs

Edited March 4, 2015 by Jojomagro

[TUXs]

For Lurker I will admit it is overtuned in comparison to the faceroll that was 2.X SM ops. The trinity comp does seem to be a stretch but you can go 5 dps and be fine. I haven't tried it with 3 healers but that is an option I'd imagine. I am with the OP and think the game is in a good place, apart from bugs of course.

 

I haven't had Cora bug out in nearly a month. Everyone just has to suck it up and put away your pets before you zone out of the MnB fight. IF the door isn't there and you want to be 100% sure she doesn't bug (I have completed it multiple times without the door) zone out and come back and the door should be there.

 

Designed poorly? You mean you have to know your class and utilize cooldowns effectively? I know for a fact that people who correctly utilize procs and abilities, group for AoE heals, and know all aspects of their discipline can complete Lurker on their second and third alts. Albeit, the Lurker cross was very wonky and to me, was the only thing horrendously wrong with 3.0 OPs

 

The Lurker is not even remotely tuned for a SM Op...Story Mode is meant to be enjoyed for the STORY aspect - HM and NiM were meant to be the "challenging" modes. When did that design philosophy change?

 

For Lurker, get rid of his adds, those are a HM/NiM mechanic, and reduce the insane damage that he does. I'm lucky enough to beat him every week, but the players I run with aren't "average" players...they're all the kind that can carry groups. This boss just isn't enjoyable.

[Jojomagro]

The Lurker is not even remotely tuned for a SM Op...Story Mode is meant to be enjoyed for the STORY aspect - HM and NiM were meant to be the "challenging" modes. When did that design philosophy change?

 

For Lurker, get rid of his adds, those are a HM/NiM mechanic, and reduce the insane damage that he does. I'm lucky enough to beat him every week, but the players I run with aren't "average" players...they're all the kind that can carry groups. This boss just isn't enjoyable.

 

For me, difficulty is part of the story and immersion. It doesn't make sense to have this ancient dark-side filled being done in by a few blasts from a cannon and some pebbles. In a true storyline the creature would be ****** and a threat. Not a thing that just flops over to a few people.

 

When have adds been NOT in story mode? Sure, tune them down by all means. But HM/NiM only? really?

Edited March 4, 2015 by Jojomagro

[TUXs]

For me, difficulty is part of the story and immersion. It doesn't make sense to have this ancient dark-side filled being done in by a few blasts from a cannon and some pebbles. In a true storyline the creature would be ****** and a threat. Not a thing that just flops over to a few people.

 

When have adds been NOT in story mode? Sure, tune them down by all means. But HM/NiM only? really?

Not the normal adds, the Lurkers spawned ones. Lurker is ridiculous.

[ML_DoubleTap]

The Lurker is not even remotely tuned for a SM Op...Story Mode is meant to be enjoyed for the STORY aspect - HM and NiM were meant to be the "challenging" modes. When did that design philosophy change?

 

For Lurker, get rid of his adds, those are a HM/NiM mechanic, and reduce the insane damage that he does. I'm lucky enough to beat him every week, but the players I run with aren't "average" players...they're all the kind that can carry groups. This boss just isn't enjoyable.

 

I'm pretty sure you can enjoy the story via YouTube. The shift to SM was one of my least favorite changes in the game. It gave players an expectation that it should be overly easy. Normal mode was a much better distinction at launch. If it was needed a story mode should have been nearly impossible to fail like the solo FPs with the droid and offer no rewards.

[TUXs]

I'm pretty sure you can enjoy the story via YouTube. The shift to SM was one of my least favorite changes in the game. It gave players an expectation that it should be overly easy. Normal mode was a much better distinction at launch. If it was needed a story mode should have been nearly impossible to fail like the solo FPs with the droid and offer no rewards.

Youtube?! Are you trying to be funny? Maybe that's how you enjoy your games, not me.

[ML_DoubleTap]

Youtube?! Are you trying to be funny? Maybe that's how you enjoy your games, not me.

 

From your post you want a combat dummy that moves around a bit. Not much of a difference. Thanks for replying only to the joke in the reply and not the actual comment though.

[TUXs]

From your post you want a combat dummy that moves around a bit. Not much of a difference. Thanks for replying only to the joke in the reply and not the actual comment though.

 

Please point out where I suggested that...or are you just making things up to be dramatic?

[FerkWork]

For me, difficulty is part of the story and immersion. It doesn't make sense to have this ancient dark-side filled being done in by a few blasts from a cannon and some pebbles. In a true storyline the creature would be ****** and a threat. Not a thing that just flops over to a few people.

 

When have adds been NOT in story mode? Sure, tune them down by all means. But HM/NiM only? really?

 

I agree 100%. Why would 2 walkers not being raining death on mere people. I enjoy the adventure of being a part of the story and this is why "difficulty " is needed. If it wasn't I and others would be very bored having only HM to enjoy fun.

 

Side note: I'm sad only Torque Coritanni and Ruuger only got a codex entry, I wish I could know more about the other bosses.

[ML_DoubleTap]

Please point out where I suggested that...or are you just making things up to be dramatic?

 

You want no adds and dramatically increase outgoing damage from the Underlurker. So, basically a moving combat dummy. Seriously since when are adds a HM thing?

 

If SM is to be as easy as you suggest they shouldn't offer the level of rewards they do. Bring back Normal Mode and make story mode like the solo flashpoints added with 3.0 and give lesser rewards that are basically just cosmetic.

[DarthVengeant]

For Lurker I will admit it is overtuned in comparison to the faceroll that was 2.X SM ops. The trinity comp does seem to be a stretch but you can go 5 dps and be fine. I haven't tried it with 3 healers but that is an option I'd imagine. I am with the OP and think the game is in a good place, apart from bugs of course.

 

DF and DP weren't face rolls easy when they came out, but they were nowhere near as "hard" as Sword Squadron Units and more so the Underlurker boss is. The reason they are difficult is because of server hitching, engine performance, and bugs. Not people and their skill.

 

I haven't had Cora bug out in nearly a month. Everyone just has to suck it up and put away your pets before you zone out of the MnB fight. IF the door isn't there and you want to be 100% sure she doesn't bug (I have completed it multiple times without the door) zone out and come back and the door should be there.

 

The door was fixed in the patch, but the boss was not. Zoning out doesn't do it everytime either. Resetting doesn't do it everytime either. It is a crap shoot to get her to not bug.

 

NO pets, out. NO pressing escape or spaebar, etc. Coratanni still bugs. I have never done spacebar/esc or had pets out, neither has my raid group. Coratanni bugs, every single week. She bugs in other groups as well doing alt runs.

 

Designed poorly? You mean you have to know your class and utilize cooldowns effectively? I know for a fact that people who correctly utilize procs and abilities, group for AoE heals, and know all aspects of their discipline can complete Lurker on their second and third alts. Albeit, the Lurker cross was very wonky and to me, was the only thing horrendously wrong with 3.0 OPs

 

Again with the "knowing your class" stuff. That comment is utterly invalid when talking about Underlurker. Everyone in my raid groups know their classes. We ALL did HM DF and DP when it was high progression. It is the engine performance and server hitching that cause most the problems in these fights, not "skill". 3.0 was not designed with engine performance in mind. Even the "elite" members of my guild still end up taking 10+ tries every week to down Underlurker. Sure, they get him down...eventually. But it is too much effort for such a small reward imo because it is Story Mode, not Hard Mode. Story Mode is supposed to be more "casual" and it certainly is not with 2nd and 3rd boss of Temple. I know people that have never seen past Underlurker, 3 months later.

[GopherLuV]

The door was fixed in the patch, but the boss was not. Zoning out doesn't do it everytime either. Resetting doesn't do it everytime either. It is a crap shoot to get her to not bug.

 

NO pets, out. NO pressing escape or spaebar, etc. Coratanni still bugs. I have never done spacebar/esc or had pets out, neither has my raid group. Coratanni bugs, every single week. She bugs in other groups as well doing alt runs.

That sucks because the bug everyone is talking about (where the fight RESETS on transfer to second phase..) I have never seen one single time... literally never seen it... only a few i've talked to have, and they said only during the first few weeks of running.. I have seen her begin to attack the pod and never die before.. many times but, burning them in a certain manner will keep that from happening.. so when we burn them down correctly, never see it.. only when we mess up.

 

Again with the "knowing your class" stuff. That comment is utterly invalid when talking about Underlurker. Everyone in my raid groups know their classes. We ALL did HM DF and DP when it was high progression. It is the engine performance and server hitching that cause most the problems in these fights, not "skill". 3.0 was not designed with engine performance in mind. Even the "elite" members of my guild still end up taking 10+ tries every week to down Underlurker. Sure, they get him down...eventually. But it is too much effort for such a small reward imo because it is Story Mode, not Hard Mode. Story Mode is supposed to be more "casual" and it certainly is not with 2nd and 3rd boss of Temple. I know people that have never seen past Underlurker, 3 months later.

Not to be rude but, I feel sorry for you.. I'm not saying it's an easy fight for everyone but.. honestly the only time I wipe in there now-a-days is when people are being stupid or were goofing around.. not getting behind rocks, or not setting up sides before hand or just going to the wrong side in order to be dumb***es... it happens..

If your DPS cannot get the ads down fast enough to have any DPS time on the boss, then yes, your gonna wipe constantly because the ads do damage, harder to heal, then the boss won't get DPS'd so your gonna wind up in enrage... seen it before.. (or worse you wind up stacking ads because you STILL can't get them down..)

I really would like to see video of people running this, killing the ads in a TIMELY MANNER, hitting boss as you go to the rocks, hiding, healing up, then going to the cross hitting boss.. getting in the right spot, and getting red cross over and over and over... because every SINGLE time, since one of those patches a month or so ago, I have seen good crosses when everyone is actually in place.. sometimes someone is slow or wrong sides (in which case.. vanguard OP! sonic rebound that ****) I wiped on underlurker twice on monday I think it was.. it was one of those stupid moments where people weren't doing stuff right.. we got sick of messing around, downed the boss real quick on the third pull and then went on our merry way to the next two trash pulls.. oh i mean bosses... But.. point is, underlurker is really not bugged anymore.. he is sometimes a bit glitchy, but the cross does not bug when everyone gets in place (and yes... JUMPS, unfortunately you have to... deal with it because it works.. 100% of the timee..) correctly and in time.. with that working, it's just a DPS check... kill those ads quick.