DPS commando and vanguard comparisons?

[Arnock]

I've begun thinking about rolling a second toon now, and I was wondering if someone could give me some sort of 'cliffs notes' summary of how dps vanguards and commandos differ in play style.

[Gealbhan]

I'm also considering rolling a second trooper to tank with. dps and vanguard don't really go together as normally a tank class has poor dps. Normally.

So I'd imagine a noticible dps difference in the two and as for playstyle, I'll get back to ya.

[GregP]

I'm also considering rolling a second trooper to tank with. dps and vanguard don't really go together as normally a tank class has poor dps. Normally.

So I'd imagine a noticible dps difference in the two and as for playstyle, I'll get back to ya.

 

 

This isn't WoW. There is no dps penalty. Vanguard is a tank or damage class. Commando is a damage or healing class.

 

Vanguards are very mobile. You're up close and personal 100% of the time. They rely heavily on stockstrike, high impact bolt, gut, fire pulse and ion pulse (assuming tactics spec - assault is viable as well, I just haven't played it as a Vanguard).

You won't have as much in the way of AOE options, but the stackable 50% damage increase to pulse cannon helps make up for it.

 

Gunnery Commandos are not mobile. You stay at range and spam your attacks. Their main attacks have a 1.5 second cast time. The upside is that they hit hard. Really hard.

Edited December 25, 2011 by GregP

[Arnock]

So, there really isn't a way to effectively play a vangaurd at long range?

 

 

Everything about the commando playstyle sounds like what I'm looking for, but I REALLY don't like those miniguns >.<

[HibashiraSakai]

This isn't WoW. There is no dps penalty. Vanguard is a tank or damage class. Commando is a damage or healing class.

 

Vanguards are very mobile. You're up close and personal 100% of the time. They rely heavily on stockstrike, high impact bolt, gut, fire pulse and ion pulse (assuming tactics spec - assault is viable as well, I just haven't played it as a Vanguard).

You won't have as much in the way of AOE options, but the stackable 50% damage increase to pulse cannon helps make up for it.

 

Gunnery Commandos are not mobile. You stay at range and spam your attacks. Their main attacks have a 1.5 second cast time. The upside is that they hit hard. Really hard.

 

You have no idea how much this helps! I have a level 11 stuck in the fleet because I don't know what to do.

 

Thanks!

[Corran]

This isn't WoW. There is no dps penalty. Vanguard is a tank or damage class. Commando is a damage or healing class.

 

Vanguards are very mobile. You're up close and personal 100% of the time. They rely heavily on stockstrike, high impact bolt, gut, fire pulse and ion pulse (assuming tactics spec - assault is viable as well, I just haven't played it as a Vanguard).

You won't have as much in the way of AOE options, but the stackable 50% damage increase to pulse cannon helps make up for it.

 

Gunnery Commandos are not mobile. You stay at range and spam your attacks. Their main attacks have a 1.5 second cast time. The upside is that they hit hard. Really hard.

 

this is an outright falsehood

 

 

i have 46 vanguard and a 28 commando. my commando is already doing more dmg per shot than my vanguard. perspective:

 

grav rounds hit for 700-800, crit for 1.9k at times at 28

 

 

stockstrike fully talented including the +crit dmg from shield - 550-680 hit, 1.3k crit at 46. with almost 300 more aim.

 

 

no, there is a big difference. after 30 or so vanguard damage scaling goes into the toilet while the dps classes continue on. this 'only a 5% difference' you read from beta testers were from testers who never made it out of the teens.

[Sickarius]

I was a Vanguard for my first character. I was disappointed - not because I didn't like the rotation and the talent trees - but because I didn't feel like a trooper. If you are attracted to the pew pew, the lasers, the aesthetics, the explosions, the apparel, and the epicness of the trooper (which is what drew me to the class) i would recommend commando as being a more trooper-feeling class. IMO that makes it infinitely better. it's all about preference. Just beware the vanguard isn't just a trooper that specializes in rifles, it's a melee/close range combatant.

[GregP]

this is an outright falsehood

 

 

i have 46 vanguard and a 28 commando. my commando is already doing more dmg per shot than my vanguard. perspective:

 

grav rounds hit for 700-800, crit for 1.9k at times at 28

 

 

stockstrike fully talented including the +crit dmg from shield - 550-680 hit, 1.3k crit at 46. with almost 300 more aim.

 

 

no, there is a big difference. after 30 or so vanguard damage scaling goes into the toilet while the dps classes continue on. this 'only a 5% difference' you read from beta testers were from testers who never made it out of the teens.

 

I played Merc BH's in beta extensively, as well as powertechs and vanguards. I have a pretty decent grasp on both AC's.

[Dutchpower]

I was a Vanguard for my first character. I was disappointed - not because I didn't like the rotation and the talent trees - but because I didn't feel like a trooper. If you are attracted to the pew pew, the lasers, the aesthetics, the explosions, the apparel, and the epicness of the trooper (which is what drew me to the class) i would recommend commando as being a more trooper-feeling class. IMO that makes it infinitely better. it's all about preference. Just beware the vanguard isn't just a trooper that specializes in rifles, it's a melee/close range combatant.

 

I have to add my 2 cents in here.

 

I'm kinda dissapointed in commando because I didn't feel like a SpecOps trooper because I was performing delicate operations with a BFG. Vanguard would seem to fit the story more.

 

Also assault specialist is incredible underwhelming for commando IMO. And Grav round's sound and animation get's old really fast.

 

I wish I rolled a vanguard but there's a big chance I might have looked at the BFG's like "I want one". I'm not going through the entire story again for a vanguard even though it does seem very tempting.

[Sickarius]

I have to add my 2 cents in here.

 

I'm kinda dissapointed in commando because I didn't feel like a SpecOps trooper because I was performing delicate operations with a BFG. Vanguard would seem to fit the story more.

 

Also assault specialist is incredible underwhelming for commando IMO. And Grav round's sound and animation get's old really fast.

 

I wish I rolled a vanguard but there's a big chance I might have looked at the BFG's like "I want one". I'm not going through the entire story again for a vanguard even though it does seem very tempting.

 

I'm actually a commando Assault specialist. It's really an amazing damage build. It allows for great mobility, and excellent damage (if used properly). I thought the vanguard was for me.. but it's based around melee, and that doesn't appeal to me. Regarding the story preferences, it was not as much of an influence to me as it is to you. I also had the issues with Grav round (which i posted a comment on in a grav round animation thread) which is part of what led me to switch to Assault spec.

 

I also thought assault spec was lame until I tried it. For pvp, it's definitely superior to Gunnery. It also does way more damage than any vanguard tree.. (my first character was a vangaurd, got him to 23 and tried all 3 specs.. all were horribly underwhelming for pvp.. rerolled commando, now 32). So i would argue against your criticisms of Assault spec. Burning people alive? Yes. Heavy dots and fire damage? Yes. Unbelievably high usage and damage of High Impact Bolt? Yes. Mobile? Yes. Explosions? Yes.

 

Just my preferences.

[Corran]

I played Merc BH's in beta extensively, as well as powertechs and vanguards. I have a pretty decent grasp on both AC's.

 

you clearly didnt take them passed 30

 

 

vanguard dmg stops scaling after about 35. all of my gear is fully modded in every slot but ear, relic, implants, offhand with all mods level 45 as i'm 46 and i'm doing the same damage i was doing at 35.

 

 

my commando however is already insane damage. so much so i just went combat medic so i could solo heroic 2's with m1-4x

[hadoken]

The 'all dps classes are within 5% of eachother' is actually a quote from the devs, not something anyone has experienced first hand.

 

We'll see if they adjust things to make that reality, and in fact we don't know what the reality is until we get a working combat log and parses. Right now it's entirely anecdotal.

 

The only thing anyone can say with accuracy is how the DPS classes function - melee for vanguard, ranged for commando.

Edited December 26, 2011 by hadoken

[Aaoogaa]

Commando - DPS 30 meters or less fully effective.

 

Vanguard - DPS 4 meters or less fully effective.

 

Basically for Vanguard to be 100% max dps they need to be a melee toon.

[Corran]

Commando - DPS 30 meters or less fully effective.

 

Vanguard - DPS 4 meters or less fully effective.

 

Basically for Vanguard to be 100% max dps they need to be a melee toon.

 

it's mroe than that

 

 

my friends grav round at 40 hits normally for almost the same damage that my stockstrike crits at talented at 46 and we are within 80 aim of each other

 

commando is longer range, less mobility, substantially more damage. early on it doesnt feel like it because you have jack all for talents and gear but i would say 35 or so is the turning point.

 

it can actually make the last few levels as a vanguard feel quite grindy.

[pezit]

Since the devs have stated that their goal is to have all classes DPS specs to be within 5% of each other why do you even care? I mean sure commando might do much better right now but then they'll get nerfed or vanguard will be buffed - Play whatever you think you'll enjoy not what's the strongest right now, or you will be the one crying when the changes happen.

[Jedikillar]

So, there really isn't a way to effectively play a vangaurd at long range?

 

 

Everything about the commando playstyle sounds like what I'm looking for, but I REALLY don't like those miniguns >.<

 

Lol. I have a merc, but i rolled a trooper alt for the story, and the minigun(my bh is heal specced so i dont really know much about dps for either ac). But as I have a merc already, im kinda tempted to go vanguard. I know i usually prefer melee range damage...but i really want a minigun...wish i could just go vanguard with the minigun, just not actaully be able to use it or something lol

[genesiser]

this is an outright falsehood

 

 

i have 46 vanguard and a 28 commando. my commando is already doing more dmg per shot than my vanguard. perspective:

 

grav rounds hit for 700-800, crit for 1.9k at times at 28

 

 

stockstrike fully talented including the +crit dmg from shield - 550-680 hit, 1.3k crit at 46. with almost 300 more aim.

 

 

no, there is a big difference. after 30 or so vanguard damage scaling goes into the toilet while the dps classes continue on. this 'only a 5% difference' you read from beta testers were from testers who never made it out of the teens.

 

I don't buy that for a second. At 25 my grav rounds hit for around 475-550, crits for about 800 max. That's with orange gear with all current blue mods. Not only that but how could something that hits for 7-800 hit for 1.9k on a crit when a crit does 50% more dmg?

[xVexillex]

Yea the commando/vangard thing kills me... Commando fit my playstle but has the retarded looking miniguns, Vanguards look AWESOME but dont have a range spec.

 

 

 

WTB a 30m spec that uses blaster rifles

[Jetflair]

this is an outright falsehood

 

 

i have 46 vanguard and a 28 commando. my commando is already doing more dmg per shot than my vanguard. perspective:

 

grav rounds hit for 700-800, crit for 1.9k at times at 28

 

 

stockstrike fully talented including the +crit dmg from shield - 550-680 hit, 1.3k crit at 46. with almost 300 more aim.

 

 

no, there is a big difference. after 30 or so vanguard damage scaling goes into the toilet while the dps classes continue on. this 'only a 5% difference' you read from beta testers were from testers who never made it out of the teens.

 

Vanguard(at least assault) builds the damage over different source and has lot of dot effects.

In pvp/pve many times targets die even after I've stopped attacking them.

 

I think the difference here is bit like Destruction Warlock and Affliction Warlock. Bigger single burts doesn't mean necessarily total dps being higher.

 

Classes also mature bit different speed. Some of the added damage for elemental attacks and such come from very high on vanguard assault tree or from other trees.

 

Haven't compared commando to vanguard, just pointing out some main differences.

[HexCaliber]

There is a huge difference between commando and vanguard when both are specced for dps. My vanguard is now level 41, and my commando only 27 and the commando already does more damage, and has a fraction of the talents it will have by endgame. The mobility of vanguard is moot, once in melee range heavy armour without a shield or talents for tanking offers little extra protection, and you are going to eat canvas just as quickly as a med armour class, when you are cc'd and raging. The extra range afforded by commando abilities gives you a buffer to kite or get your *** out of dodge when targeted.

 

The fact is, any class that can carry a shield does less damage than the ac that doesn't, anyone who tries will notice the difference between ac's fairly quickly, before anyone pipes up I also have a 39 Sent and 36 guard to compare with. Of course, other differences compensate, but in an outright dps battle, the ac without the shield will always top, regardless of devs claims to the contrary.

 

Five percent difference may have been their original goal, but it seems that was lost quite some time ago amongst class changes and all the intervening patches during beta.

 

Yes, people will argue it's subjective without a dps meter, but I belong to the old guard from the days of UO and EQ when we didn’t need parses, you still don't; if you really must have proof, a stopwatch and a convenient mob and a reasonable sample size is all that is needed to compare dps between specs.

[Tires]

There is a huge difference between commando and vanguard when both are specced for dps. My vanguard is now level 41, and my commando only 27 and the commando already does more damage, and has a fraction of the talents it will have by endgame. The mobility of vanguard is moot, once in melee range heavy armour without a shield or talents for tanking offers little extra protection, and you are going to eat canvas just as quickly as a med armour class, when you are cc'd and raging. The extra range afforded by commando abilities gives you a buffer to kite or get your *** out of dodge when targeted.

 

The fact is, any class that can carry a shield does less damage than the ac that doesn't, anyone who tries will notice the difference between ac's fairly quickly, before anyone pipes up I also have a 39 Sent and 36 guard to compare with. Of course, other differences compensate, but in an outright dps battle, the ac without the shield will always top, regardless of devs claims to the contrary.

 

Five percent difference may have been their original goal, but it seems that was lost quite some time ago amongst class changes and all the intervening patches during beta.

 

Yes, people will argue it's subjective without a dps meter, but I belong to the old guard from the days of UO and EQ when we didn’t need parses, you still don't; if you really must have proof, a stopwatch and a convenient mob and a reasonable sample size is all that is needed to compare dps between specs.

 

Tactics vanguards don't carry a shield, we carry the same thing a gunnery commando does.

 

Why do you overvalue the ability to tank to the ability to heal? Couldn't the same be said "Any class that has the ability to heal does less damage than the AC that doesn't"

 

The rest of your comments have little or nothing to do with DPS done by either AC.

 

You may be an old player but you are proving points with false logic.

[mandaboo]

The devs already stated that the char that take the dps trees would have equal damage.

 

If they dont they will make adjustments.

 

A dps sec Vanguard will do comparable damage to a dps spec commando.

 

The are both Hybrids if you will.. (one tank the other heal).. so your hybrid tax garbage from wow does not apply.

[Rashne]

Mmm, how is vanguard assault close range? I haven't tried a trooper yet but I want to. The assault spec shows 30m range on some of its talented abilities.

 

Does this have to do with the other trooper abilities?

[Cayse_Harker]

Yea the commando/vangard thing kills me... Commando fit my playstle but has the retarded looking miniguns, Vanguards look AWESOME but dont have a range spec.

 

 

 

WTB a 30m spec that uses blaster rifles

 

This. A thousand times this.

[Vaspyre]

Yea the commando/vangard thing kills me... Commando fit my playstle but has the retarded looking miniguns, Vanguards look AWESOME but dont have a range spec.

 

 

 

WTB a 30m spec that uses blaster rifles

 

Blasphemy! The BFG is the best part! Id rather use the BFG over the rifle any day

Edited January 7, 2012 by Vaspyre