DarkNecroCrusher Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) I don't know if anybody noticed or thought about this, but there is always 1 DPS spec for each class that suits perfectly for PvE, but is way more difficult to master and to make effective in PvP. And this is the opposite for the other spec with PvP. What I'm thinking is that the game has been designed to have 1 PvE oriented and 1 PvP oriented spec per class. The third one can be used for both PvE and PvP, but harder to play for DPS only classes, and useful both in PvE and PvP for heal and tank specs. Let me give some few examples : - Sent/Mara (regardless of the class beeing almost useless right now) : Watchman/Anni for PvE, hard to play in PvP (good sustained damage for long fights) Combat/Carnage for both, but not so easy to get something decent or close to the two others (nervous gameplay, normal sustained damage and decent burst) Concentration/Fury for PvP, hard to play in PvE (high burst, less sustained damage, more mobility) - VG/PT : Tank for both PvE and PvP Plasma/Pyro for PvE, harder to play in PvP (good sustained damage, meh burst) Tactics/AP Burst spec for PvP, harder to play in PvE (meh sustained damage, extreme burst) - Sage/Sorc : Heal for both PvE and PvP Telek/Light for PvP, don't know if it's as good in PvE right now (meh sustained damage, high burst and a lot of insta casts) Balance/Madness spec for PvE, not as good in PvP right now (meh burst, good sustained damage) And so on ... The only exceptions are Shadow/Sin, cause it's the overOP class right now in PvP, regardless of the DPS spec, and Guardian/Jugg, cause you can choose what you want, it will be effective in PvP (Vigi/Veng is more for PvE than Focus/Rage though, and still very good in PvP, while Rage is still good in PvP and meh in PvE). It came to my mind after the devs posted the new VG/PT patch note, when I saw that the DoT spec was nerfed, as well as the Shoulder Cannon for both DPS specs, when I was waiting for a burst spec nerf only. It seems that the DoT spec was over performing in PvE (almost nobody use it in PvP), something that I wouldn't have expected at all. I think it's like : "You wanna PvE ? Play this DPS spec. You wanna PvP ? Play the other DPS spec. You wanna play whatever you want ? You will have to show some skills with this spec made for the opposite part of the game you wanna play." What are you guys thinking about this ? Edited February 10, 2015 by DarkNecroCrusher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skotal Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 ....burst > sustained in pvp for many reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 ....burst > sustained in pvp for many reasons Tell that to every pressure comp, oh and don't forget about hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aienir Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Both AP and Lightning have very high sustained damage for the class. Both are extremely viable in PvE. Madness/Balance is doing lower damage than Lightning/Telekinetics in PvE due to lowered damage in the change to 3.0. AP does around 300-500 less DPS than Pyro if there is no real hard swap and only really surpasses AP if a Merc is there for the debuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exosasa Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Tell that to every pressure comp, oh and don't forget about hatred. I think we can all agree that Hatred would be pretty, er... Modified if it didn't have Bloodletting and Leeching Strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshot_hendo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Pyro was one of the lowest parsing specs for PVE. Madness sorc I believe then pyro PT. Dot spread makes sorc strong in PVP but single target it is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Pyro was one of the lowest parsing specs for PVE. Madness sorc I believe then pyro PT. Dot spread makes sorc strong in PVP but single target it is garbage. Pyro was no where near the lowest parsing spec, and it parses better than AP. Although AP is better in most current raid fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshot_hendo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Pyro was no where near the lowest parsing spec, and it parses better than AP. Although AP is better in most current raid fights. Ty for proving my point lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Ty for proving my point lol. Pyro still parses better than several other specs in operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skotal Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Tell that to every pressure comp, oh and don't forget about hatred. k Every pressure comp and hatred. burst is better. why? sustained healing surpasses sustained dps general defenses delay/negate effectiveness of sustained allowing more time for healing (shields, self heal) burst allows you to kill healers pressure builds need to be combined with burst builds unless pressure outstrips healing burst allows faster kills in 1v1 (this concept ignores the defenses which is half the reason why hatred does well) burst reduces reaction time. (killing a sorc before they can barrier) burst requires less prep time decreasing enemy ability to interrupt the sequence. burst has generally better target switching hatred has burst btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) sustained healing surpasses sustained dps only 1 to 1 in a vacuum. If you chain mezz the healer and interrupt the crap out of him when he is not stunned then two pressure DPS can easily (like by a mile) put up way more DPS than the other team's HPS. You also forget that every tank has a healing debuff now. And then there is hatred which can run around doing more DPS than a healer 1 to 1. Edited February 10, 2015 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshot_hendo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Pyro still parses better than several other specs in operations. Not really. Idk where you get your information dude. MB hitting for 8k is a stretch for you when Flame Burst hit for 5k last season. Pyro parses well lol. Madness and pyro are on the bottom. Yes merc IO parses high. But that isnt pyro PT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMagee Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Not really. Idk where you get your information dude. MB hitting for 8k is a stretch for you when Flame Burst hit for 5k last season. Pyro parses well lol. Madness and pyro are on the bottom. Yes merc IO parses high. But that isnt pyro PT. You're terrifying. The amount of nonsense that you've been spouting is incredible. If you look at the Parsely leaderboards right now, the 11th best parse, overall, amongst all specs in the game, is a PT Pyro parse. Pyro PT parses incredibly well. Neither PT spec is anywhere close to the bottom half of the boards. So please, stop talking nonsense. Edited February 10, 2015 by JMagee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aienir Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) You're terrifying. The amount of nonsense that you've been spouting is incredible. If you look at the Parsely leaderboards right now, the 11th best parse, overall, amongst all specs in the game, is a PT Pyro parse. Pyro PT parses incredibly well. Neither PT spec is anywhere close to the bottom half of the boards. So please, stop talking nonsense. And before someone mentions "But that's a dummy parse!!!" here's the placement of Powertechs/Vanguards on all the new content on the Parsley leaderboards: Ravagers Sparky - Powertech Pyrotech 3rd Quartermaster Bulo - Powertech Pyrotech 2nd Torque - Powertech Pyrotech 4th Master and Blaster - Powertech Pyrotech 9th Coratanni - Powertech Pyrotech 5th Temple of Sacrafice Malphar the Savage - Powertech Pyrotech 5th Sword Squadron - Powertech Advanced Prototype 9th The Underlurker - Powertech Advanced Prototype 2nd Revanite Commanders - Powertech Pyrotech 5th Revan - Powertech Pyrotech 2nd and 3rd Edited February 10, 2015 by Aienir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skotal Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 only 1 to 1 in a vacuum. If you chain mezz the healer and interrupt the crap out of him when he is not stunned then two pressure DPS can easily (like by a mile) put up way more DPS than the other team's HPS. You also forget that every tank has a healing debuff now. And then there is hatred which can run around doing more DPS than a healer 1 to 1. yes and the healers own tanks can taunt (and all the other dps that have taunts) to reduce dps output by 30% (trauma is only 20%) this also is healer HPS + targets HPS (and other defenses) vs overall sustained. anyway the point of my post was to point out that the dps specs for pvp tend to be burst specs for various reasons. pressure/sustained builds are not bad for pvp its better if you have the dps output and defenses of hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 yes and the healers own tanks can taunt (and all the other dps that have taunts) to reduce dps output by 30% (trauma is only 20%) this also is healer HPS + targets HPS (and other defenses) vs overall sustained. anyway the point of my post was to point out that the dps specs for pvp tend to be burst specs for various reasons. pressure/sustained builds are not bad for pvp its better if you have the dps output and defenses of hatred. That's rather odd since pressure comps have been dominant in ranked for a couple seasons now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshot_hendo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) That's rather odd since pressure comps have been dominant in ranked for a couple seasons now. Still wrong. Hard swith comps have been the highest rated teams for 2 seasons. PVE is meh and maybe pyro does well but not as well as AP. The thing I find funny is the ravagers links while it was bugged and BH was the most successful base class due to HO. And why dont you think about this. Pyro being 10th correct? Pyro had its single target reduced and its AOE buffed. That works so well on single targets. Pyro is garbage has been since 3.0. Sorcs can do 5.2k dps as madness in regs but that xfers to pve? Think about it. I will wait. Btw we can debate PVP if youd like since we are in the PVP thread. Even though the nerf to PT affects PVE quite a bit. Edited February 10, 2015 by headshot_hendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshot_hendo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 And before someone mentions "But that's a dummy parse!!!" here's the placement of Powertechs/Vanguards on all the new content on the Parsley leaderboards: Ravagers Sparky - Powertech Pyrotech 3rd Quartermaster Bulo - Powertech Pyrotech 2nd Torque - Powertech Pyrotech 4th Master and Blaster - Powertech Pyrotech 9th Coratanni - Powertech Pyrotech 5th Temple of Sacrafice Malphar the Savage - Powertech Pyrotech 5th Sword Squadron - Powertech Advanced Prototype 9th The Underlurker - Powertech Advanced Prototype 2nd Revanite Commanders - Powertech Pyrotech 5th Revan - Powertech Pyrotech 2nd and 3rd Link the mando ones while you are at it since few could complete it wothout HO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshot_hendo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 You're terrifying. The amount of nonsense that you've been spouting is incredible. If you look at the Parsely leaderboards right now, the 11th best parse, overall, amongst all specs in the game, is a PT Pyro parse. Pyro PT parses incredibly well. Neither PT spec is anywhere close to the bottom half of the boards. So please, stop talking nonsense. Shall we continue with nonsense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshot_hendo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Sorry for my poor spelling. Im on my phone and I dont use auto correct because I like to swear in my text messages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMagee Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Shall we continue with nonsense? I'm confused. You said Pyro PARSES poorly. I provided proof it does not. If you meant to say Pyro PT is poor in high movement, single target fights, or in organized PvP compared to AP, I'd agree. But that's not what you said. You then went on to discuss Madness in PvP and somehow argued about how it could or could not transfer to PvE. Parsing is a PvE activity. Then you brought up Mandos and HO and how that affects how well they can clear Revan. So what are you actually trying to get at? Edited February 10, 2015 by JMagee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshot_hendo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'm confused. You said Pyro PARSES poorly. I provided proof it does not. If you meant to say Pyro PT is poor in high movement, single target fights, or in organized PvP compared to AP, I'd agree. But that's not what you said. You then went on to discuss Madness in PvP and somehow argued about how it could or could not transfer to PvE. Parsing is a PvE activity. Then you brought up Mandos and HO and how that affects how well they can clear Revan. So what are you actually trying to get at? Do you not get the reference? AOE in PVE especially sucks. Madness is the blatant example. The nerf reduces all the parse ability of it. Pyro does meh now. Are you seriously saying a spec that had its single target damage nerfed (confirmed) will still parse even close to as high? Snipers mercs and sorcs are higher on the board so I dont get your point. Few run juggs in PVE and maras are weak atm as well. Whats left OPs and sins? Deception blows from what people have been saying. OPs havent really been the highest parsing class ever so idk whats new. Melee will struggle with high movement fights ofc kinda how it goes. We could go into the 20% advantage tank juggs and sins have had over PT recently as well if youd like. Linking ravagers parses is dumb since BH was the most successful class due to HO. The spec is garbage. Both PVP and PVE. Let me know if I need to elaborate on simple concepts again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshot_hendo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Its on the PTS now lol idiots. So much nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshot_hendo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Did I win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I don't know if anybody noticed or thought about this, but there is always 1 DPS spec for each class that suits perfectly for PvE, but is way more difficult to master and to make effective in PvP. And this is the opposite for the other spec with PvP. What I'm thinking is that the game has been designed to have 1 PvE oriented and 1 PvP oriented spec per class. I believe that you might be right with that. Only that I'd say it differently : 1 advanced class for PvE, 1 advanced class for PvP. Merc / Commando is currently the prime example for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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