Action For The Ravager's Exploit

[wainot-keel]

Someone didn't read OP...

 

Removal of the gear is one of the actions taken, which depends on the severity of the exploit, as Musco said. That means many will keep the stuff. For example, we could have one guy who exploited the bug 30 times. Bad guy, he gets the gear removed. Another guy only exploited 29 times. He's fine. Let him keep it. Makes sense, right ?

[warnl]

after talking to some people who actively had exploited, those that only exploited once or twice didn't receive any suspensions, those that did it 3+ times got 1 day suspension and I haven't personally talked to anyone who received a more than 1-2 day ban. What annoys me more is the fact that one of the players that transferred the HM lockout from harbinger to beregan colony only received a 1 day ban which is, in my opinion a joke. Edited January 30, 2015 by warnl

[iKlone]

I think permanent suspension is quite abusive, but 1-7 days for severe exploiters is a good thing.

 

It should have been 15-30 days for extremely severe exploiters rather than permanent suspension.

 

I'm glad they can permaban serious offenders that have been around since launch. Just proves how much money they're actually pulling in and, that the game isn't going anywhere.

[XiamaraSimi]

Obviously, especially seeing most people don't enjoy this one thing called "free will", and were forced and / or duped into partaking in the exploit.

 

Repeatedly. Over and over again.

 

This is what everyone keeps conveniently ignoring. End of the day people made their own choice. It wasnt their mom, neighbor, the mailman or their goldfish. They -chose willingly- to do it...

 

(Those that say they "accidently" did it, or were "tricked" into doing it, well, you could have deleted said items and reported your "mistake")

[Ruskaeth]

I did it SM and HM with 6 characters the first week and 8 every week after and I have no problem with my 1 day ban and no loss of gear or mats. (I didn't bother with any schematics, yet, I might re the leftovers I still have now) My entire guild is laughing their asses off at this. One guy, with a ton of alts, made 80 mil trading mats for barrels, mods, etc. and posting those on the GTN, he gets to keep all of that (no schematics himself, just trade). I will be laughing all the way to the bank when I sell all the mats I stockpiled after 198s become craftable.

Well done! Kappa

 

All the punishments are next to trivial if BW fumbles in reigning back the benefits of said exploit.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Ruskaeth

[Max_Killjoy]

So, you find walled on street. There's 10000 dollars in it. You keep it instead of walking to nearest police station.

It's all good? No one gets hurt?

 

The person who lost the wallet gets hurt. Entirely inaccurate analogy.

[Darth_Wicked]

This is what everyone keeps conveniently ignoring. End of the day people made their own choice. It wasnt their mom, neighbor, the mailman or their goldfish. They -chose willingly- to do it...

 

(Those that say they "accidently" did it, or were "tricked" into doing it, well, you could have deleted said items and reported your "mistake")

 

Hey, I know this one who guy who "accidentally" impregnated his girlfriend's sister.

 

Hapless mistake.

[Ruskaeth]

The person who lost the wallet gets hurt. Entirely inaccurate analogy.

 

There is no need for analogy at all. What everyone I know in this game wants to know is that the company providing the service cares enough of their game and has enough self-respect to discourage cheating or exploiting. It's simple as that. Such is the nature of MMOs for majority of people (a guess). All the back and forth with analogies and what not are just waste of time.

[Max_Killjoy]

There is no need for analogy at all. What everyone I know in this game wants to know is that the company providing the service cares enough of their game and has enough self-respect to discourage cheating or exploiting. It's simple as that. Such is the nature of MMOs for majority of people (a guess). All the back and forth with analogies and what not are just waste of time.

 

Well, now you can say that you "know" at least one player who was more concerned that they fix the bug, and then move on and use their time fixing more bugs, including some that have been there for years; who would rather see them focus their "disciplinary" efforts on cheats that actually hurt someone.

 

It's clear from posts here that PvP is a cesspool of exploits and gameable rules. Why doesn't Bioware focus their enforcement efforts on cheating that actually occurs at the expense of other players? (PS: for the people who think I don't care about Ravagers because I don't do ops... I don't do PvP either. This has nothing to do with what I play or don't, it's about the actual harm done by the exploit/cheat.)

[TravelersWay]

Well done! Kappa

 

All the punishments are next to trivial if BW fumbles in reigning back the benefits of said exploit.

 

Being that there's no way to verify the veracity of the reddit statements, I will take what is posted there by random players with a huge grain of salt.

[Evolixe]

Way to make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

Now that that's over, how about you stop wasting resources on this nonsense and direct them at identifying and fixing bugs in the game.

 

I detect an angry exploiter kid

Edited January 30, 2015 by Evolixe

[kharathos]

Someone didn't read OP...

 

And someone believes all the tough talk from Bioware while ignoring the fact only a Ban feather is in play.

 

You see Halinalle, talk is one thing but action is another. Bioware talk the talk but are stumbling, tripping and falling over like a drunk when it comes to walking the walk. Go to Dulfy and Reddit and a few other sites. Plenty of reports from 24/48 hour suspended players who report they still have their gear obtained from using the exploit nor has anyone reported lost credits or anything else.

[Halinalle]

Being that there's no way to verify the veracity of the reddit statements, I will take what is posted there by random players with a huge grain of salt.

 

Yeah...

I checked the thread over there and yeah... They justify using the exploit by "tank stances lower damage by 20%, picnic!".

[kharathos]

I'm glad they can permaban serious offenders that have been around since launch. Just proves how much money they're actually pulling in and, that the game isn't going anywhere.

 

Except no one has been permabanned last time I heard.

[kharathos]

There is no need for analogy at all. What everyone I know in this game wants to know is that the company providing the service cares enough of their game and has enough self-respect to discourage cheating or exploiting. It's simple as that. Such is the nature of MMOs for majority of people (a guess). All the back and forth with analogies and what not are just waste of time.

 

Except when those given suspensions etc are laughing at Bioware's much vaunted punishment, I think it is safe to say there has been no deterrent made by Bioware for the next exploit instance and in fact given the laughable tickles made by the Ban Feather, safe to say more will do it next time and cop a day or two suspension on the chin and keep the booty.

[ghostly_ghost]

heh, BW punish for exploit, nerfing all good things (ult coms in opses, slot machines etc)... but doesn't fixing bugs, nice work BW, and thanks for warning Eric

[Evolixe]

Shame... the game would be better off if Bioware had let it go, and all the people who are taking sick pleasure in the punishment of others now, would instead have quit the game in self-righteous rage.

 

Lol what? Do you actually believe that?

 

If they just let it go it's only going to get worse the next time.

Because people would realise that if something like this could go through.. pretty much anything could.

 

 

And that's when you lose control. So an example needed to be set. And that has now happened.

May all of you learn from it and understand that such actions are simply not acceptable.

 

Hi Eric,

 

Thank you, as always, for doing your best to keep us all informed.

 

Speaking on behalf of myself, my guild members, and the majority of the community members who I talk to on a regular basis, both fully support your actions, and understand the difficulty of the situation as a whole - especially when looking subjectively and realising that the majority of players who were partaking in this exploit were paying customers.

 

It is important to remember that just because someone is a customer, does not make them a loyal one. Disrespecting the ToS, exploiting for loot and monetary gain whilst blaming the developers to excuse their actions. Flaunting it in the faces of everyone around them with complete contempt and utter disregard to the consequences of their actions, with impunity, and because "it's their own fault for allowing it to be possible" etc.

 

I believe that taking a strong stance on this matter sends out a much needed message, that you & the devs care about the state of the game, and that you will not stand idly and allow these people to destroy the in-game economy, make a mockery out of any genuine progression guilds, and continuously disrespect you and the entire SWTOR community.

 

I sincerely hope your team have the strength of conviction to stand by these actions, and that you deal with repeat offenders with the same degree of contempt that they showed throught this whole fiasco.

 

Finally I would like to repeat the sentiment of my opening statement, and once more say thank you to both Eric, and the developers, for maintining an open line of communication throughout, for reverting back to us with a comprehensive explanation of your conclusions and for explaining the actions you will be taking regarding this matter.

 

Thank you, and best regards.

 

- Muzyka

for, and on behalf of <Shades of Grey> TRE (eu)

 

 

Also,

 

I know there will be people out there who do not agree with me, or who think that the SWTOR devs are at fault for this matter.

 

You are wrong.

 

No matter how or why the exploit came about, people CHOSE to abuse it. The only reason they are so butthurt now is that they were caught doing something which they knew was wrong, thought they could get away with indefinitely, and now they've had their hands slapped.

 

Just because you pay for a service, doesnt entitle you to try and take more from it than is allowed... Just as your cable company if they catch you hacking channels despite paying for a basic package...

 

A fantastic post. Well done.

[Halinalle]

heh, BW punish for exploit, nerfing all good things (ult coms in opses, slot machines etc)... but doesn't fixing bugs, nice work BW, and thanks for warning Eric

 

Ultimates from ops that can be 3 or 4 manned? No thanks.

Jawa junk drop rates were too good.

[-MikeTC-]

I detect an angry exploiter kid

 

Sure, because everyone who wants to have bugs fixed is an angry exploiter kid .

 

You're certainly the well balanced mature person here.

[Max_Killjoy]

I detect an angry exploiter kid

 

And yet here I am, posting... while the ban includes loss of forum posting access for the duration.

 

Your attitude that anyone who isn't on board with this being "a totally severe and terrible thing", or who questions the reaction from Bioware or the players, must be "an exploiter", is exactly the sort of thing that inspired this comment you later took such umbrage with:

 

Shame... the game would be better off if Bioware had let it go, and all the people who are taking sick pleasure in the punishment of others now, would instead have quit the game in self-righteous rage.

 

Your attempt to establish a false dichotomy in which only those who "exploited" could be anything but fully supportive of the harshest possible reaction from Bioware is exactly why I went from "not my concern" when this first became an issue in December back before Bioware even acknowledged it and was still deleting threads about it, to "I hope Bioware does nothing" by the time Eric's ill-fated first post appeared on the forums.

 

In response to my post quoted above, you said:

 

Lol what? Do you actually believe that?

 

If they just let it go it's only going to get worse the next time.

Because people would realise that if something like this could go through.. pretty much anything could.

 

And that's when you lose control. So an example needed to be set. And that has now happened.

May all of you learn from it and understand that such actions are simply not acceptable.

 

I'll save my outrage for when someone is actually hurt by something in some way.

 

This whole "set an example" thing.... yeah.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Halinalle]

And yet here I am, posting... while the ban includes loss of forum posting access for the duration.

 

Try to log out?

[Max_Killjoy]

Try to log out?

 

Wow... so now that I magically haven't been banned despite the goofy belief held some people that only "an exploiter" could be this vocally disgusted by the community reaction and disappointed in Bioware's actions, I'm "obviously" still posting only because I haven't logged out?

 

I guess some people are always going to believe that I'm one of the "cheaters" no matter what happens.

[Halinalle]

Wow... so now that I magically haven't been banned despite the goofy belief held some people that only "an exploiter" could be this vocally disgusted by the community reaction and disappointed in Bioware's actions, I'm "obviously" still posting only because I haven't logged out?

 

I guess some people are always going to believe that I'm one of the "cheaters" no matter what happens.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_cookie

[Evolixe]

I'll save my outrage for when someone is actually hurt by something in some way.

 

This whole "set an example" thing.... yeah.

 

They could've just ignored it, like usual. Not do a thing about it. Then next time, nobody would even give a **** anymore. I've retrained myself from abusing this exploit because it's unethical, immoral and because I expected action to be taken against it. Like any devstudio would that's worth their mentioning.

 

However, if this went through like nothing happened.. I am not so sure I would bother to retrain myself anymore.

And the thing is that I'm not the only person thinking that way. Ignoring issues makes them bigger.

[TravelersWay]

And someone believes all the tough talk from Bioware while ignoring the fact only a Ban feather is in play.

 

You see Halinalle, talk is one thing but action is another. Bioware talk the talk but are stumbling, tripping and falling over like a drunk when it comes to walking the walk. Go to Dulfy and Reddit and a few other sites. Plenty of reports from 24/48 hour suspended players who report they still have their gear obtained from using the exploit nor has anyone reported lost credits or anything else.

 

Oh yes, because if it posted on the Internet, especially by an immature exploiter, then it must be true!!

 

And just for argument's sake, even if it is true that they still have their gear, that doesn't mean they will still have it tomorrow, or the next day, or even next week. BioWare can take it away any time they want.

 

Ignoring issues makes them bigger.

That's one of the keys, isn't it. People keep saying that no one "got hurt" with this exploit, or that it's only a game so cheating is no big deal. But ultimately, we as gamers all suffer when things like this get out of hand or go unpunished.

 

Whether it's a simple video game, or a national pasttime, like Baseball, there needs to be a sense of integrity in all that we do. If we do not maintain some sense of that integrity, then nothing we do really has any meaning in the end, and as such ends up not being worth doing at all. So yes, allowing exploiters to go unpunished in any video game hurts the game and hurts me as a gamer. My reputation as a gamer with honor and integrity is soiled when a game does not maintain some level of fair play, regardless of the nature of the game. We as a community suffer when those looking in from the outside potentially see that cheating is accepted by those without a sense of honor and integrity, and therefore our form of entertainment suffers.

 

Would any major competitive sport be as big as it is now, or even taken seriously if there was no consequences for cheating? I think not. Just because we play games as a pasttime for fun and entertainment doesn't mean we should still not hold to some level of integrity while playing, and rid ourselves of those who refuse to do so.

Edited January 30, 2015 by TravelersWay