DX 12 coming SWTOR sitll in the darkages.

[tharbison]

I guess this post has some staying power!

 

I love the game & am hopeful that EA/BW would invest in some major performance upgrades, but, I'm not holding my breath.

[GelstonJ]

Got a great website to introduce you all to. It's called Google. You may have heard about it. You type keywords into it and it searchs for what you've typed.

 

I wonder what would happen if I tried to search for 'swtor dx12'

 

Guess what? It points to this thread.

 

Many folks use it to find answers to their questions. Other folks just troll those who do so.

 

I didn't say everyone making posts in this thread was in the wrong, I don't mind a thread being used with the same topic. The people replying to posts someone else posted over a year ago and calling them "douchebags" or other comments, that is who I was talking about.

[DogMeat]

Anyone know if the Hero engine is getting an update....NOPE not as far as I can tell.

With that said, no update to an engine that is single thread and 32bit.

 

DXxx will not make any difference in graphics rendering...

 

It is what it is and to upgrade as has been said many times before is NEVER gonna happen.

It would be a rewrite of the game that took 5 years to make.

As they say: it is what it is.

[FlyingUsPoo]

Anyone know if the Hero engine is getting an update....NOPE not as far as I can tell.

With that said, no update to an engine that is single thread and 32bit.

*cough*

[AlrikFassbauer]

With DX12 I won't be able to run many of my beloved games anymore, I assume ...

And no, I don't buy new games anymore - except a few RPGs & Jump & Run and Aventure ... Who needs DX12 for that ?

[ludoviccb]

DX 12 only isn't viable for gaming right now. In April, of all the Windows OS computers, about 84% were using something else than Windows 10. Without Windows 10, you can't run DX 12. That would put most of the playerbase in the position of changing their OS for performance or quitting the game. If they do that kind of switch mandatory, it would kill the game. Also, DX12 is for game with graphic intensive design so that it use mostly the CPU instead of the GPU.

 

SWTOR is CPU intensive. Just enabling multithreading by using DX11 would solve most of the performance issues for all the multiple core systems and it would exclude about 12% of the computers currently able to run this game.

[Forren-Midosea]

DX 12 only isn't viable for gaming right now. In April, of all the Windows OS computers, about 84% were using something else than Windows 10. Without Windows 10, you can't run DX 12. That would put most of the playerbase in the position of changing their OS for performance or quitting the game. If they do that kind of switch mandatory, it would kill the game. Also, DX12 is for game with graphic intensive design so that it use mostly the CPU instead of the GPU.

 

SWTOR is CPU intensive. Just enabling multithreading by using DX11 would solve most of the performance issues for all the multiple core systems and it would exclude about 12% of the computers currently able to run this game.

 

Few years earlier same status had win7. Now dx 11 along with win7 is most popular system on steam platform. Guess what will happen with dx12 and win10?

 

....

[TX_Angel]

*cough*

 

The current HeroEngine and what SWTOR uses are not really the same thing.

 

That would be like saying Frostbite 3 is an easy upgrade for any game running the first Frostbite engine. It isn't.

[TX_Angel]

Hello BW. DX12 is a thing. Async shaders and async computate, physics etc. DX9 support will be dropped very soon. Maybe its time do redo some things?

 

To use DX12 on a game that was designed for DX9 would require a major engine rewrite costing millions of dollars.

 

The chances of that happening are slim and none and slim has left the building...

[JabbaWabbA]

I think they should consider upgrading everything at some point in the not too distant future I'd love to see improved visuals. But who knows, maybe they don't have the resources for such things right now and certainly improving what they already have takes precedence for the time being.

 

doubt it on improved visuals. too many casuals playing the game on a potato

[usctrojans]

What other MMOs offer 64 bit clients? WoW is the only one I know of myself. MMOs tend to go for broad hardware support, favoring older systems.

 

The Elder Scrolls Online offers a 64bit client and upgrade to DirectX 11 two or three months ago. I thinkt hat EA would resign SWTOR before anything like this. I doubt Disney is giving them a ton of freedom to operate with this title as it's not the almighty canon.

[Astaldoath]

See what cutting costs for voice acting did? They coulda put that 250mil in to a bad *** engine instead of voice actors.....Learn from their mistakes, i dont see swtor going for more than 5 more years max

[znihilist]

DX 12 only isn't viable for gaming right now. In April, of all the Windows OS computers, about 84% were using something else than Windows 10. Without Windows 10, you can't run DX 12. That would put most of the playerbase in the position of changing their OS for performance or quitting the game. If they do that kind of switch mandatory, it would kill the game. Also, DX12 is for game with graphic intensive design so that it use mostly the CPU instead of the GPU.

 

SWTOR is CPU intensive. Just enabling multithreading by using DX11 would solve most of the performance issues for all the multiple core systems and it would exclude about 12% of the computers currently able to run this game.

 

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey ---> almost 40% of users are on Win 10.

However, switching the game to DirectX 12 doesn't mean those without it can't play it, same situation we have now (most are on 11, but game is on 9).

 

DirectX 12 have a major improvement for CPU overheard over the previous versions, this :

Also, DX12 is for game with graphic intensive design so that it use mostly the CPU instead of the GPU.

Is wrong! That's not how it works. DirectX 12 offers the devs better access to the hardware, it doesn't move the load from GPU to CPU. All in all usage of X12 is an overall better.

Does it matter at the end? Probably not, but it is not a net negative. Stop thinking everything has to have a technical reason why it doesn't work, sometimes it is just economic* or laziness.

 

*: The amount of money that goes into upgrading the game is less than the amount of money expected as revenue from such a move.

Edited May 20, 2016 by znihilist

[Jedi_riches]

Yeah I see that DX9 is 'going away' but I really, really don't want to upgrade to 8.1 or 10 I don't like navigating either of them I much prefer 7 all round.

[DreadtechSavant]

who cares? . To blunt for you?

 

Well let me tell you not everyone want windows 10, I don't. It was a free upgrade so put it on my laptop, all it did was damage the laptop. I can no longer watch any of the online films I had brought, can no longer watch Netflix and the list go's on and on. Even after I returned to my previous windows still would not play Netflix or any off the online films I had brought of Amazon. Before anyone says PHONE THEM THEY WILL FIX IT FOR YOU. Done that been there for over 3 f*********g hours trying to get it to work, Amazon, Netflix even Sony could not fix the issue.

 

There is no way in hell I am putting that crap on my desktop, which I use mainly to play this game. Now I know that this game itself will play on windows 10 as it still plays on that laptop, does not change the fact that windows 10 has major flaws in it So as far as this game go's BW should not switch until windows 10 is working as it should and supports the same programs/divers other windows already do.

 

This games plays perfectly well on the system it is on now, the bugs and other issues this game has, has nothing to do with its system it down to programing errors done by BW employees. These things happen and I except them, they would still happen on any new system BW had. As its a programing error not a system error.

 

Better to be in the dark-ages than just be in the dark as in total blackout. Which is what has happened to a lot of other programs that run on computers with window 10.

Edited May 20, 2016 by DreadtechSavant

[TX_Angel]

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey ---> almost 40% of users are on Win 10.

However, switching the game to DirectX 12 doesn't mean those without it can't play it, same situation we have now (most are on 11, but game is on 9).

 

Steam isn't the whole marketshare of Windows desktops, nor is it the same as the people playing this game.

 

It might be close, only EA really knows (since I imagine they are logging what computers the game runs on).

 

That being said, even if 40% are running Windows 10, a switch to DX12 would prevent 60% of the people from playing it, at a minimum. Unless you expect Bioware to support 2 different clients at the same time.

 

If you think the game is bug ridden right now, wait until they have to make it works with TWO clients!

[xordevoreaux]

Everquest2 developers (I want to believe they really put only one employee to the task) several years ago tried to take EQ2 from Dx9 to DX10. It was a disaster, with many things showing up not just without bump maps and textures, but as just wireframes. Not even untextured objects. Wireframes.

 

They abandoned the attempt, reverting to DX9. They finally came back and said to the effect "we can make stuff in dx9 look just as good". Not.

 

But at least Sony made the attempt.

[TX_Angel]

who cares? . To blunt for you?

 

Well let me tell you not everyone want windows 10, I don't. It was a free upgrade so put it on my laptop, all it did was damage the laptop. I can no longer watch any of the online films I had brought, can no longer watch Netflix and the list go's on and on. Even after I returned to my previous windows still would not play Netflix or any off the online films I had brought of Amazon.

 

It is quite likely that a clean install of Windows 10 on that laptop would fix your issues. 300 million people (and counting) are running Windows 10, it isn't nearly as broken as you make it sound.

 

There is no way in hell I am putting that crap on my desktop

 

Windows 10 isn't crap, you have a sample size of one, and a bad one at that. I've installed Windows 10 on dozens of machines, including very old Windows 7 installs with a lot of stuff on them. My success rate is 100%, as is most people's.

 

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but that doesn't make Windows 10 bad, just that situation.

 

Ironically, this is why it is a shame so many local computer shops are gone. While you called people and tried to make it work, you really only spoke with $10/hr idiots who don't know what they are doing either.

 

A good computer tech, given 20 minutes with your computer in person, probably would have fixed it. Yet they largely don't exist anymore because no one wants to pay them.

 

20 years ago I worked at such a store, you buy a computer, bring it back if you have problems, we can fix it. Service was part of the sale. Then Computer Shopper and then the Internet took over and everyone wanted a cheap Dell (or Gateway or whatever) and ran our store out of business.

 

Now who comes over and fixes your computer? Geek Squad? Give me a break, those are $10/hr idiots.

[Thoronmir]

Now who comes over and fixes your computer? Geek Squad? Give me a break, those are $10/hr idiots.

I use Zack. He seems quite knowledgeable. He and his IT firm are responsible for keeping my law firm's computers safe, functioning, happy, etc. I assume that involves feeding lots of squirrels and retightening rubber bands. So, when my home computer needs attention ... complicated technical tasks like downloading a Java or Adobe update ... I call Zack. I never learned much about computers ... but I don't need to. I have a Zack.

 

Zack says I don't need Windows 10. Everything I use runs just fine. That's good enough for me. Everyone should use Zack. Warning, though: he charges more than $10/hour.

[znihilist]

Steam isn't the whole marketshare of Windows desktops, nor is it the same as the people playing this game.

 

It might be close, only EA really knows (since I imagine they are logging what computers the game runs on).

 

That being said, even if 40% are running Windows 10, a switch to DX12 would prevent 60% of the people from playing it, at a minimum. Unless you expect Bioware to support 2 different clients at the same time.

 

If you think the game is bug ridden right now, wait until they have to make it works with TWO clients!

 

But the whole marketshare of Windows is irrelevant, none gamers by definition don't play games and by that they don't play SWTOR. So the 80% he pulled is irrelevant, the closest thing we have to the reality of things is that number: 40%, you are free to criticize it, but unless you have a better alternative to gauge things out, that's what I'll use.

 

My point wasn't that I want the game to be ported to DX12, my point that the poster I replied to was wrong on many levels and I was trying to bring a better picture to this.

[TX_Angel]

I use Zack. He seems quite knowledgeable. He and his IT firm are responsible for keeping my law firm's computers safe, functioning, happy, etc. I assume that involves feeding lots of squirrels and retightening rubber bands. So, when my home computer needs attention ... complicated technical tasks like downloading a Java or Adobe update ... I call Zack. I never learned much about computers ... but I don't need to. I have a Zack.

 

Zack says I don't need Windows 10. Everything I use runs just fine. That's good enough for me. Everyone should use Zack. Warning, though: he charges more than $10/hour.

 

If he is any good, he is worth at least three times that.

 

No, you don't "need" Windows 10... not right now... but that day is coming... If you're happy on Windows 7 and plan to keep your computer as it is, then you'll be fine. But support for it will slowly go away, MS has already said no further Intel chipset support is coming for it, and I imagine that includes AM4 (Zen) from AMD as well...

 

And of course you only get security updates until 2020. But that is 4 years from now, you likely will want a new computer between now and then.

 

---

 

Side note: Your point about not learning much about computers is just fine. I don't know how to fix the HVAC in my house or the transmission in my car either, but I'll pay a professional to do those jobs. Why people aren't ok to hire a professional to maintain their computer is beyond me.

[TX_Angel]

But the whole marketshare of Windows is irrelevant, none gamers by definition don't play games and by that they don't play SWTOR. So the 80% he pulled is irrelevant, the closest thing we have to the reality of things is that number: 40%, you are free to criticize it, but unless you have a better alternative to gauge things out, that's what I'll use.

 

My point wasn't that I want the game to be ported to DX12, my point that the poster I replied to was wrong on many levels and I was trying to bring a better picture to this.

 

Fair enough, but it will be 5+ years before the marketshare of Windows 10 is high enough to make a DX12 ONLY game, at least one like SWTOR.

 

Frankly, a better argument would be for a DX11 version using 64-bit, at least THAT would have broad support for the most part, but even then a shocking number of people are still running 32-bit Windows. It would be nice if MS could offer a way to upgrade to the 64-bit version in place for 32-bit users.

[Isnogut]

As long as DX9 ist stil suported by MS, BioWare and EA will do absolutely nothing to change the engine. By changing the engine I mean change the design of the engine. Changing an entire engine is quite the task. The wisest solution is to upgrade it like Blizzard did with the Warcraft engine and CCP with the EVE engine.

Frankly, changing the entire game engine is at a similar on pair developement level as developing an entinre new game. Every interfaces in the game has to be redesigned to fit the existing material to the new engine. Every balance changes has to be modified for the engine as well and the whole balacing starts with the new engine from begining. It will not only take a lot of work to be done, but it'll cost a lot as well. ...And we're talking here about EA, so yeah, there is maybe one in a million chance and only if the CEO and the entire board are stoned by the time for this kind of decision.

 

Beside that I am not quite sure the (once) Hero engine, now a derivate from it for SWTOR is upgradeable at this degree. I am not sure, what BW stripped and altered in it. Comparing the Hero Engine to the SWTOR derivate I strongly have the impression due to the changes the engine went slow and rigid. Thatfore the changes have to be masive by now.

[Forren-Midosea]

World of tanks recently got dx11 support. People are damn happy because it gave them a nice fps bump. BW should seriously reconsider dropping dx9

[AlrikFassbauer]

Day Of The Tentacle recently got DX9 support, too ... Oh, wait ...