calypsissmexy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Classic bait and switch here guys c'mon. Release a machine with monumental impact on the economy and potential to be a credit printing machine to the cartel market. Sell untold amounts of hypercrates because of it. Turn the machine into a worthless credit sink (with a tasty rare mount as an inconceivably rare 1:100,000 drop to whet the appetites of addicts) only a week later after the hype wears off and the credit generation has been destroyed by supply glut. Smile and laugh at us as they count their money. End of story. quoted for accuracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEccen Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Speak for yourself. Unless you have a source for this "most of us". Quit whining please. Why didn't you just post in this thread http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=790586 instead of make your own? Waste of thread imo Is there a place I can sign where it says he speaks for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 While I'm sympathetic to those who claim a bait-and-switch happened given the extreme changes in Jawa Junk drops, I feel like the end result is actually a good vision of what the Slot Machine should be: primarily a way to get the associated Reputation, with an unlikely 'jackpot' odds of getting a Cartel Cert and a super-duper-rare chance of getting the special mount (similar to the Rancor odds during the Summer Event). This is a good version of the item, but BW made a mistake in ever releasing a version that had people treating it as a crafting-focused machine or an easy way of getting Cartel Certs. Now people, justifiably, feel like they're getting jerked around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeDeatH Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 No gain. From a slot machine. Slot machines are for gambling. Gambling you usually don't gain much. I would say be greatful for the fact you made half your credits back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 While I'm sympathetic to those who claim a bait-and-switch happened given the extreme changes in Jawa Junk drops, I feel like the end result is actually a good vision of what the Slot Machine should be: primarily a way to get the associated Reputation, with an unlikely 'jackpot' odds of getting a Cartel Cert and a super-duper-rare chance of getting the special mount (similar to the Rancor odds during the Summer Event). This is a good version of the item, but BW made a mistake in ever releasing a version that had people treating it as a crafting-focused machine or an easy way of getting Cartel Certs. Now people, justifiably, feel like they're getting jerked around. That's the point though... the rancor odds were MUCH better than some of these odds. the chance of getting ONE jawa junk is actually LOWER than getting the vectron magnus from the kingpin event. The chance of getting ONE cartel certificate is LOWER than that of getting the rancor mount... The chance of getting one of the walker mounts is 70(!) times lower than getting the rancor mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 No gain. From a slot machine. Slot machines are for gambling. Gambling you usually don't gain much. I would say be greatful for the fact you made half your credits back. Slot machines usually give back 75-90% of your money to keep you gambling. This low return rate will ensure that nobody will keep gambling on this machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbonetx Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I have to chime in here that this thing went from 1 extreme to the other. I do agree a nerf was in order, but not to this extreme. I hope that you seriously consider your actions here and reconsider this to more reasonable numbers, if not I am seriously considering unsubbing and washing my hands of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 That's the point though... the rancor odds were MUCH better than some of these odds. the chance of getting ONE jawa junk is actually LOWER than getting the vectron magnus from the kingpin event. The chance of getting ONE cartel certificate is LOWER than that of getting the rancor mount... The chance of getting one of the walker mounts is 70(!) times lower than getting the rancor mount. Hitting the jackpot on the penny slots is supposed to be worse odds than on the $5 pulls: Cost of a Contraband Slot Token: 650 credits Cost of a Kingpin Slot Token: 50,000 credits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hitting the jackpot on the penny slots is supposed to be worse odds than on the $5 pulls: Cost of a Contraband Slot Token: 650 credits Cost of a Kingpin Slot Token: 50,000 credits Sure, but this is a game, not real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 While I'm sympathetic to those who claim a bait-and-switch happened given the extreme changes in Jawa Junk drops, I feel like the end result is actually a good vision of what the Slot Machine should be: primarily a way to get the associated Reputation, with an unlikely 'jackpot' odds of getting a Cartel Cert and a super-duper-rare chance of getting the special mount (similar to the Rancor odds during the Summer Event). This is a good version of the item, but BW made a mistake in ever releasing a version that had people treating it as a crafting-focused machine or an easy way of getting Cartel Certs. Now people, justifiably, feel like they're getting jerked around. No, this is NOT a good version of the item. It is only useful now for Rep, which means the slot has a useful life of an hour or two per account. Honestly, you now only need 1-2 slot machines for an entire server. Well, aside from those crazy enough to think they can win the mount (I guess rich guys with macros can.) What they SHOULD have done is put the Jawa Junk drop rates/costs at something similar to missions. That way if you wanted the rare mats faster you could do it via paying for this machine, with a bonus of saving you some time from farming green mats. But if you didn't care for the extra speed, you could save your money and just run the mission skills and never invest in the slot machine. It would give you an option, be useful, but not required. THAT would be a good version of this slot machine. What they have now is not even worth the decoration hook it uses up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan_Vee Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Only reason I visit the forums is to attempt to counteract the sheer magnitude of BS demands, QQ, and ideas too crazy for any wall. Because far too often the community team read these threads pass them on and this kind of thing happens. Eric, Tait, and the rest.... just stop reading the forums, or at least stop reading them and thinking that the nonsense people are posting is an accurate representation of the broader community. The game will be better for it. Slots were fine and would self regulate given time; yes it upset the apple cart. Here's 50c call someone who cares. PS. Underlurker is NOT bugged. L2P, 'nuff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Sure, but this is a game, not real life. How does that change the fact that it makes sense for the cheaper machine to have worse odds than the expensive machine for a comparable reward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 How does that change the fact that it makes sense for the cheaper machine to have worse odds than the expensive machine for a comparable reward? Because the game is not about sitting in front of a slot machine for hours on end clicking a button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 No, this is NOT a good version of the item. It is only useful now for Rep, which means the slot has a useful life of an hour or two per account. Honestly, you now only need 1-2 slot machines for an entire server. Well, aside from those crazy enough to think they can win the mount (I guess rich guys with macros can.) What they SHOULD have done is put the Jawa Junk drop rates/costs at something similar to missions. That way if you wanted the rare mats faster you could do it via paying for this machine, with a bonus of saving you some time from farming green mats. But if you didn't care for the extra speed, you could save your money and just run the mission skills and never invest in the slot machine. It would give you an option, be useful, but not required. THAT would be a good version of this slot machine. What they have now is not even worth the decoration hook it uses up. I completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Because the game is not about sitting in front of a slot machine for hours on end clicking a button. thats why people use clicking macros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I completely agree. No, this should never be on par with crew missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharathos Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Are you harassing me now? That's against the rules you know. protip: you don't speak on behalf of the community Bwahahahahahahaha wow sensitive much? Didn't realize a single post telling you to chill out constitutes harassment. Relax Princess. It will all come out in the wash!! But back on point, Thanks Bioware for making the slot machines utterly useless to anyone who has max reputation. There's a reason your knee jerk reaction is called exactly that................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamLKvist Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Ridicolous children on here complaining about the nerf, defending something so obviously broken. Most likely the lot of those are the rich spamming the **** out of the machines with macros going - whilst flooding the market with an abundance of items - making money. The only people that can be arsed with the slot machine, no matter what they say, are not the casual ones... Are you kidding me? Its the people that play the game partly to become rich in game. - Clicking on the machine for ages, not casual. (Macroing this **** obviously - and now they're sad they cant cheat anymore) - Selling goods at 5x lower prices than pre-slot machine = Takes more work to get the same amount of credits... This change is a good change. Now go back to playing the game, jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimRita Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 300 coins, 1 jawa droid part and endless rep tokens - THATS ALL! No Cartel Certs, no mount, no other jawa scraps. Good job Bioware, seriously. Please look up the word 'Balance' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 No, this should never be on par with crew missions. And why not? Why should it not be an equal alternative to crew missions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngones Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I agree the drops had to be nerfed, I have no issue with that, but they have gone way overboard with it. It basically just a way to gather rep now. They have increased the chance to fail by a significant margin (too much imo), while making the worthwhile rewards way too low considering this is something that is supposed to entertain. Instead it now feels like a waste of time. I feel a fair percentage chance on the drops would be similar to the following; fail - 29.499% token - 20% green rep - 20% blue rep - 15% purple rep - 5% green mat - 6% blue mat - 3% purple mat - 1% certficate - 0.5% mount - 0.001% I think the overzealous nerf is a knee jerk reaction to the crazy effect had on the market, and may be rebalanced once thing return somewhat to normal. At least I hope so, but as it stands now from 3.0.2a, the new percentages are way to far to make the machine (or any future iterations) worth the credits to buy them on the GTN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 No, this should never be on par with crew missions. It HAS to be. Long-term the only real value these slots have is their ability to give mats. Since you can run crew missions and do other things at the same time, but have to stay in one place while using the slots, that means slots are inherently inferior unless they have a lower cost or a much faster drop rate for a similar cost. Otherwise no one will use the slots and it becomes what it is now: effectively useless once you have your rep. And since you can get your rep playing someone else's machine, this is a completely non-desireable item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I want to end all this casino/slots talk. The average return, or "Theoretical" on a slot machine in the United States is .90 (it is required by law to have this rate of return posted near the Main Cage of every casino in many states the US; some states and Native American casinos excepted). It is a simple Operator Menu function or DIP switch function for the casino to set this rate and is audited by gaming boards/commissions. So, if you put in $1.00, over the long run, you should expect to get on average $0.90 back, including all large jackpots awarded (we're not talking the odds on one spin of a machine on max credits and max lines to win a jackpot, we're talking average rate of return, and games have payout tables pre-programmed to deliver these rates of returns, unlike the slot machine in the game here, which is going on straight odds). These machines are not giving a .90 rate of return. Granted my Stronghold on Coruscant is not the average casino in the United States, but casinos in the United States have devoted billions of dollars and decades of research to find out how to keep a person playing a slot machine and this rate of return is based on many tested variables, financially, psychologically, and otherwise, but most importantly to make the casino money. The key here though is that the person must want to play and then be coaxed into continuing to play and this .89-.90 theoretical rate of return for the player is proven to be optimal (around there, lesser denomination machines can go to .98 while larger denomination machines may go as low as .82, mostly depending on the local competition and laws; a .87 or lower machine would be referred to as "loose" and it is how casinos can prove they have the "loosest slots in town", but only one bank of machines at a casino have to have this better rate of return for them to advertise it, and it is probably a single or pair bank of $100 denomination machine(s)). By law casinos must prove using revenue summaries and audits that they are complying with this advertised/declared/posted theoretical or average rate of return. In conclusion, since this slot machine is not set up to make Bioware money on a spin-by-spin basis (the cartel market packs themselves are Bioware's "casino"), they nerfed this machine to the point that no one would want to play it or continue to play it. Hence mine and many others' presumption that they overreacted without thinking of the other variables that go into playing slots. The machine is useless now, both for the player and operator, but Bioware doesn't know this because they aren't making money off the spins, only on the purchase to get the machine from the cartel pack. The argument that it is gambling/a slot machine and you are meant to lose money is nonsense; it is a business. Any casino that stocked their floor with these would be bankrupt in a week. Having a machine that always loses makes the casino little to no money because no one will play it, and the patron may leave, losing even more money. The cartel market is supposed to be fun, this is not fun or entertainment anymore, nor, because of their error (which was not an error at first according to them) will it ever be fun, because we've already tasted the forbidden fruit of having the loosest slots ever anywhere. They may have ruined us for all slot machines in this game again...if you aren't a slot jockey with an addictive personality (but even then you need to feed them enough "wins" to compel them to stay, otherwise they'll get up and possibly go to another casino, and we definitely don't want them to do that, no, no, they're our bread and butta.). BTW If you didn't realize by now, I work in the gaming industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rankyn Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yeah, these needed a nerf but this was too much. Especially since so many people spent actual, real money on the hope of getting one. I'm not one that goes around calling bait-and-switch, but after specifically saying these things were "working as intended" and then less than a week later doing an almost complete 180 on that position... well, something's not right there. Now, I'm lucky enough that I got one on the first try but I know that if I would have spent money on multiple packs (if not crates) to get one and then have its functionality so completely gutted like this in light of the earlier dev statement, I'd be more than a little irate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharathos Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Ridicolous children on here complaining about the nerf, defending something so obviously broken. Most likely the lot of those are the rich spamming the **** out of the machines with macros going - whilst flooding the market with an abundance of items - making money. The only people that can be arsed with the slot machine, no matter what they say, are not the casual ones... Are you kidding me? Its the people that play the game partly to become rich in game. - Clicking on the machine for ages, not casual. (Macroing this **** obviously - and now they're sad they cant cheat anymore) - Selling goods at 5x lower prices than pre-slot machine = Takes more work to get the same amount of credits... This change is a good change. Now go back to playing the game, jeez. Look up what a Nerf is and accept that what they did was go beyond nerfing it to making it completely useless. Hell I think Bioware should join you as well in looking up what a nerf is. This goes so far beyond that it earns a Picard facepalm. As for your thoughts on who benefited from this, yeah might want to provide some proof if you are going to make such stupid claims and accusations. Many people benefited from this slot machine. The Rich, the not so rich and anyone who got a cartel pack with one of these in it. But always remember it was the crafters and gtn barons who cried that they were being undercut on the gtn and it was Bioware themselves who said that the whole purpose of the slot machines was to try and bring the price of said overpriced mats to a price they thought was more reasonable. Meaning the prices on the gtn were overpriced that even Bioware thought the same. Sadly they also buckled like a b***** and removed the one thing that was forcing more reasonable prices on the gtn with mats. Now if you are maxed out on rep, the slot machine are utterly useless. Good work Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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