Tolunart Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I would assume the macro would repeat itself indefinitely, since that's generally the purpose of a macro, removing the necessity to actively 'play' the character. And given what they said, "1,1,1,1" is ok, I think you could argue that that's all a player here is doing...spamming 1 key press...like they indicated was OK. Again, this is a direct quote from the BW post you cited as a source: "Again, one click must always equal one action and only one action within the game." This is not a gray area. A macro that repeats an action is more than one action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Again, this is a direct quote from the BW post you cited as a source: "Again, one click must always equal one action and only one action within the game." This is not a gray area. A macro that repeats an action is more than one action. They specifically stated "1,1,1,1" is ok. "1" is a singular action but they specifically show an example where it repeats itself. Edited January 19, 2015 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolunart Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 From source: Sequence clicking If you have a system set up so that if you hit the same key 4 times likes so: '1, 1, 1, 1' and instead of just firing off whatever 1 is bound to it fires off '1, 2, 3, 4', then as long as you keep it to 'one key == one other key hit' its in that grey area of not true automation. There is a caveat - you can't have the macro determine a minimum time between clicks to work around the global cool down timing and only fire the next button in sequence if the GCD has expired. If you instead have a system that when you hit 1, it fires of 1, 2, 3, 4 in quick succession or all at once (i.e. one click == many actions) in order to try and fire something that isn't currently in a cool down state then yes, that is against the ToS. Again, one click must always equal one action and only one action within the game. -------------------------------------------- So, no. One key press, one action, good. One key press, seven actions, bad. Please read the quoted example. Pressing 1 four times to perform four actions is okay, pressing 1 once to perform four actions is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolunart Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 They specifically stated "1,1,1,1" is ok. "1" is a singular action but they specifically show an example where it repeats itself. Your source specifically states that each keypress may perform one and only one action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Your source specifically states that each keypress may perform one and only one action. Right. What action(s) does "1" represent to you? It's only ever RT Click, never anything more. 1 or RT Click are the same thing. One action. They specifically show a repeating macro as their example of being OK..."1,1,1,1". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolunart Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Right. What action(s) does "1" represent to you? It's only ever RT Click, never anything more. 1 or RT Click are the same thing. One action. They specifically show a repeating macro as their example of being OK..."1,1,1,1". "If you instead have a system that when you hit 1, it fires of 1, 2, 3, 4 in quick succession or all at once (i.e. one click == many actions) in order to try and fire something that isn't currently in a cool down state then yes, that is against the ToS. " When does "that is against the ToS" mean "you are allowed to do this?" " if you hit the same key 4 times likes so: '1, 1, 1, 1'" Four times. Not one. You know what, I'm not sure whether you are just incapable of understanding or trolling, but this is just too boring to continue. Edited January 19, 2015 by Tolunart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'm not sure whether you are just incapable of understanding or trolling, but this is just too boring to continue. I was thinking the same thing about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolunart Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I was thinking the same thing about you. I can read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I can read. I didn't question your ability to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 They go AFK for hours and hours and hours and let the clicking do the work, I'm surprised Bioware didn't patch this in on the first day. These known "clickers" keep undercutting me because they have so much stuff to sell. I've sent in tickets but Bioware take days to respond to them. Your surprised by this? This was the most predictable cheat ever Hell every time I goto Black Hole lately I see 2 characters standing at the same 2 fights every single time (clearly credit farmers running macros to earn credits for selling) Tried to report it but there is no report category for such a report (not like any reports since mid Nov been even looked at anyways) Macros for slot machines are the most predictable cheat out there Anyone asking for proof of this is just basically admitting they doing it as its such a no brainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Tux, I think the meaning of that statement is pretty clear, if that did in fact come from the devs. I think I remember it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fushnchips Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 will give anyone a key to my stronghold for 100mil you can macro all you want on my slot machine hahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolunart Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Tux, I think the meaning of that statement is pretty clear, if that did in fact come from the devs. I think I remember it. Tuxs himself posted a link to it a few pages back. The entire "source" quote: So a number of people have asked about text macros. A couple of others (even on reddit!) have mentioned 'colour detection to determine which action to take' systems. I even saw a questions about sequence clicking... I even saw claims that we can't detect anything and won't do a thing about this issue. I'll address all four... Text Macros Strictly speaking, text macro's are against the ToS. If its for emotes etc and isn't being used as a way to advise others of an impending attack in a Warzone (inc snow! for example), then we will turn a blind eye to an extent. If you fire off emotes too many times in quick succession of course then you will get evaluated for if you are spamming. One click 'enter chat, type 'inc snow!', hit enter' text macros designed to warn others is completely against the ToS. You need to make a decision - do I take the time to type 'inc snow' to the ops group, or do I just keep fighting this person... Think of it as an evaluation on if you are using a tool that gives you an unfair advantage over somebody not using that same tool. Colour detection and evaluated action macros The very act of determining a colour of a pixel on screen and as a result then using a specific action is one of the easy to understand examples of what we call automation. As soon as you have two things happening based on one key press, then its against the ToS. Sequence clicking If you have a system set up so that if you hit the same key 4 times likes so: '1, 1, 1, 1' and instead of just firing off whatever 1 is bound to it fires off '1, 2, 3, 4', then as long as you keep it to 'one key == one other key hit' its in that grey area of not true automation. There is a caveat - you can't have the macro determine a minimum time between clicks to work around the global cool down timing and only fire the next button in sequence if the GCD has expired. If you instead have a system that when you hit 1, it fires of 1, 2, 3, 4 in quick succession or all at once (i.e. one click == many actions) in order to try and fire something that isn't currently in a cool down state then yes, that is against the ToS. Again, one click must always equal one action and only one action within the game. Detection of abuse There are many claims based on guesswork that we can't tell when a person is running automation for systems like field respeccing within seconds. Every time you interact with the server we log either the specific event or an aggregate of similar events firing multiple times. We can (and do!) look through those logs using analytic engines. If you want to know more about the concept, look up 'big data' in google - we strive to make all decisions on making changes to the game based on the data we have, and we have a lot of data. We also use that data for game forensics - we may not react in a real-time manner for most things, but as people foolish enough to speedhack know, we can and do act based on irrefutable data. Now, all that said, what are we going to be doing going forwards now that this issue is very much in the limelight? Expect changes to the ability to field respec in Warzones. We were already working on this as part of some upcoming PvP updates (Bruce detailed some of that this week I believe), and we may bring the field respec changes forward - or we may just keep them where they are so to not impact the game update schedules and instead update our existing Warzone game forensic reporting to include inhumanly fast field respec events. Either way my advise if you are currently macroing within Warzones is to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolunart Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) From the quote: "As soon as you have two things happening based on one key press, then its against the ToS." "Again, one click must always equal one action and only one action within the game." Edited January 19, 2015 by Tolunart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I would assume the macro would repeat itself indefinitely, since that's generally the purpose of a macro, removing the necessity to actively 'play' the character. And given what they said, "1,1,1,1" is ok, I think you could argue that that's all a player here is doing...spamming 1 key press...like they indicated was OK. There's never anything good on TV at this time of day, and my dvr ran out of new stuff to show me. You both are right. Having a macro that does nothing but right click is fine. I can map my right click to 1 then 2 then 3 then 4 etc. with each subsequent press going from 1 to 4. However, the part you are missing is that if I as a user right click once wait for GCD right click again, wait for GCD etc. I am not violating any issues. If I PROGRAM my right click to press(1) wait(1.5) press(2) wait(1.5) press(3) wait(1.5) press (4) wait (1.5) then I am violating the TOS. If their macro simply spams right click as fast as it can thats not against the TOS. if they program that 3 or 4 second delay while the machine is playing then that is against the TOS. The difference is in the extra programming of the delay. so yes, you two are both right. The single macro of click click click is not against the TOS but generally someone would probably be programming" a click (pause) click (pause)" which is NOT a single action, the pause in this case is considered an action. If they have no pause, its not against the TOS (although frowned upon, and after 5 minutes will just go AFK anyway), If they program a pause or an extra key press (space bar to jump so not go AFK) that is against the TOS and banable. problem solved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 From the quote: "As soon as you have two things happening based on one key press, then its against the ToS." What two things do you see happening exactly? Are you suggesting that the repeating it is what breaks it? "1" is only ever ONE thing, RT Click. "1" is never "Rt Click + spacebar", it's just RT Click...which is specifically one action. I'm not defending it, I'm simply pointing out that they've left it too vague when it comes to a situation like this in the Sequence Clicking area and I can see that there's grey area in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 If their macro simply spams right click as fast as it can thats not against the TOS. if they program that 3 or 4 second delay while the machine is playing then that is against the TOS. The difference is in the extra programming of the delay. That's exactly how I'm reading it too DOH...as long as I'm not calculating any cooldowns, I can spam it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 That's exactly how I'm reading it too DOH...as long as I'm not calculating any cooldowns, I can spam it. that's very odd, cause it doesn't matter how many seconds or time intervals you use on an auto clicker, an auto clicker is simply an auto clicker no matter how long it waits. I still think it should be against the Tos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 that's very odd, cause it doesn't matter how many seconds or time intervals you use on an auto clicker, an auto clicker is simply an auto clicker no matter how long it waits. I still think it should be against the Tos I agree. I don't use macros and I'm very anti macros in MMOs...I've never seen anything good come from them...I much prefer the policy here of "macros=bad". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 What two things do you see happening exactly? Are you suggesting that the repeating it is what breaks it? "1" is only ever ONE thing, RT Click. "1" is never "Rt Click + spacebar", it's just RT Click...which is specifically one action. I'm not defending it, I'm simply pointing out that they've left it too vague when it comes to a situation like this in the Sequence Clicking area and I can see that there's grey area in this situation. Oh, I see your point. Repetition is fine as long as it is a single action, no matter if it is automated or not. Is that the point your making? Your right, it is a bit confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Oh, I see your point. Repetition is fine as long as it is a single action, no matter if it is automated or not. Is that the point your making? Your right, it is a bit confusing. Correct. And I'm not defending it...I HATE MACROS...this all started from me suggesting that it may not even be against the ToS is all. The way "I" read it, as long as it's 1 click, it can spam Rt Click all freaking day....arguably. Obviously I do not believe that is their intent, but it should probably be clarified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 that's very odd, cause it doesn't matter how many seconds or time intervals you use on an auto clicker, an auto clicker is simply an auto clicker no matter how long it waits. I still think it should be against the Tos i agree its unethical and probably frowned upon since the person is not actually performing the action which is what will ultimately get someone banned if they are infact using them (i.e its a bot which is in fact bannable since human is not performing the action) adn can be easily seen by the high volume of clicks during the cooldown on teh machine, but no different than an over anxious person just spamming a button (i.e GIANT RED TEXT). But from a pure macro standpoint nothing wrong with it, until you add the delay. What will be bannable is not the macro, but the bot portion where a human is not making the action. The idea is that I can map one key to another via macro (Mousebutton4 mapped to H) for instance. is fine, so whenever I hit mouse button 4 it is same as hitting H. Now if I map H, then 1 then V then K on each subsequent click, that is no different than mapping the fast i click it the faster i cycle through H, 1 V, K. as long as I hit the button 4 times its fine. I hit the button once and it automatically cycles through, bad. So in our case. What is "wrong" with this particular macro isn't the single action, its that it is basically botting which is bad. But the macro itself is fine. If you want to argue the Botting aspect of the macro that is one thing. If you want to argue the macro itself that is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolunart Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) It's like modifying a gun for automatic fire. Pull trigger, fire, pull trigger, fire... that's fine. Pull trigger, fire, fire, fire, fire... is illegal. It's not hard to understand. The dev's statement is very clear, one action and only one action. Firing five bullets is not one bullet. Edited January 19, 2015 by Tolunart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddarkangel Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I let my nephew, clicking for me for hours and he got several stacks of Jawa junk to me. Should I consider the use of my nephew as a macro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I let my nephew, clicking for me for hours and he got several stacks of Jawa junk to me. Should I consider the use of my nephew as a macro? No, but you should probably wipe down your mouse. Stacks of Jawa junk probably wasn't all he was picking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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