The Contraband Slot Machine

[eartharioch]

Your recollection is wrong and quite convenient, especially considering your "I'm not trying to berate you" stance (paraphrasing of course).

 

You claimed it was a new stance. The proof is that it has been my stance from the VERY FIRST POST I PLACED IN THE THREAD. I was clearly happy with the rep and certs, and also made it clear I didn't care about the presence of the mats at all.

 

So ou have chosen to backpedal. Again, I will let our posts speak for themselves. I have clearly copped to my posting behavior. You have not.

 

OK, let's let your posts speak for you:

 

I think actually the BLUE should be reduced if anything, and the green increased.

 

I think the purple is just about right.

 

Right now all three seem to come out about even, which seems odd to me.

 

That's exactly what I said you said. I called you out for saying that, and you replied [in part]:

 

That leaves those that normally run missions or want the rep/embargoed items, gold sellers and perhaps those that wish to exploit in some way, and those that would normally engage in material selling on the market....hardcore crafters if you will.

 

All of those folks combined are a minority IMO. That is why I feel it is likely this has not had an impact yet, and will likely not a measurable impact in the future. Much like any other move that folks said would destabilize the economy.

 

And note, this is speculation on my part, but it likely will NOT be on Bioware's part. If they do see problems they will likely act, if not (as I suspect) they may make small adjustments to help out high end crafters or leave it as it is...as they have done in the past.

 

Those quotes are both from you, in this thread, before the nerf.

 

My belief is that you are very much aware of my stance and simply chose to make yet another ad hominem attack. One that I did not solicit I might add. I think your intent is crystal clear.

 

My posts have. Im not sure why you continue to struggle with the concept that insults directed at a person is against the rules...it is prudent to warn you, I could have just reported you.

 

It's very simple. Follow the forum rules like everyone else. Otherwise there may be consequences.

 

Hopefully this is the last word on the matter so we can return to the subject at hand.

 

Artemis, calm down for a minute. I'm not insulting you -- as far as I know, I don't know you in real life, so as far as I am concerned, "you" and "your posts" are indistinguishable. All I'm saying is that, regardless of what you may have privately believed, or what you may have said to other people in this thread or other threads at other times, your comments [to me] before the nerf did *not* indicate that you thought that the machine shouldn't drop mats.

 

I know you changed your mind on this issue later. It's pretty clear that, like BW, you didn't think there was a problem initially, since you weren't abusing it, and that's ok. It wasn't *your* job to make sure the machine was balanced before BW released it.

 

So let's quit busting each others' balls over this. I'll quit saying "I told you so" if you quit saying "I knew it all along."

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I don't think you get what I'm talking about...

 

Im not talking about ALL cartel packs. I'm talking about the first four to eight of the oldest cartel packs. The majority of the items that drop out of those packs are beyond worth popping packs over. Let those packs rest in peace! If you're ANYTHING like me, and pop cartel packs like "bubble wrap" you'd know, the market is over saturated with TONS of the unfavorable items! Seriously, like anyone wants to pop a hypercrate and get stuck with 75% covert armor pieces and fancy reveler hats! LOL! Oooo! Where do I sign up for two more vaults full of starfighter cosmetics, just to obtain two sets of mando hunter armor to sell? Lmao!

 

With a gradual retirement of the older cartel packs and the additional creation and introduction to newer ones, your "bubble wrap popping" days would be far from over! If anything, business would boom!

 

I disagree ( from a purely personal perspective ). I enjoy spending lots on the older packs because quite often I can spend 400K on an older pack and get, what was a common item at release, a fairly rare item that alone can make up for the price I paid for the pack. On average I double my money easily in the packs I buy and open.

 

Whilst I agree they should stop bringing them back so often ( I'm happy for 1 day sales like they did maybe twice a year just to replenish supplies ) I would still prefer they didn't give alternative ways to get the items so those that I save for MONTHS eventually hit that level of rarity for the type of profit I'm hunting for.

 

The reason I do pay more for older packs is often they've already hit that level when you buy them as opposed to when you buy them fresh and the items are worth less than what you paid for a pack.

 

My personal experience anyway. I like the system the way it is ( though with less bringing back of the packs ).

[Bojaboo]

Response to eartharioch in the spoiler tag below.

 

 

 

 

Your recollection is wrong and quite convenient, especially considering your "I'm not trying to berate you" stance (paraphrasing of course).

 

You claimed it was a new stance. The proof is that it has been my stance from the VERY FIRST POST I PLACED IN THE THREAD. I was clearly happy with the rep and certs, and also made it clear I didn't care about the presence of the mats at all.

 

So you have chosen to backpedal. Again, I will let our posts speak for themselves. I have clearly copped to my posting behavior. You have not.

 

My belief is that you are very much aware of my stance and simply chose to make yet another ad hominem attack. One that I did not solicit I might add. I think your intent is crystal clear.

 

 

 

My posts have. Im not sure why you continue to struggle with the concept that insults directed at a person is against the rules...it is prudent to warn you, I could have just reported you.

 

It's very simple. Follow the forum rules like everyone else. Otherwise there may be consequences.

 

Hopefully this is the last word on the matter so we can return to the subject at hand.

 

 

Back to business.....

 

It is my belief that this issue will remain as it is from here forward. I get the feeling Bioware is paralyzed on this issue and others. Perhaps they do not know what to do, perhaps they do not care. But either way I do not expect to see more machines, nor do I expect they will adjust this one.

 

And I do not think this is the last stumble of this kind they will make. I think it is likely this will become more and more common as we move forward.

 

I keep checking forums in case they decide they want my subs and cartel money back. I understand that My piddly SWTOR habit of only 15$ a month x 5 (family's accounts) and the 5k ish we blew on SWTOR CC crap is nothing to bio-ware but this decision to steal from me was the final straw. I was already on the fence when they 100% failed to Have Gree and Rackgoul ready... But when a gaming developer just Knee-jerk Nerf something that actually made crafting avail to all my alts into the ground it is clearly time to move a long to the next game. Oh yeah I almost forgot Good riddance SWTOR Forum troll community may you roast eternally in a fire.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I keep checking forums in case they decide they want my subs and cartel money back. I understand that My piddly SWTOR habit of only 15$ a month x 5 (family's accounts) and the 5k ish we blew on SWTOR CC crap is nothing to bio-ware but this decision to steal from me was the final straw. I was already on the fence when they 100% failed to Have Gree and Rackgoul ready... But when a gaming developer just Knee-jerk Nerf something that actually made crafting avail to all my alts into the ground it is clearly time to move a long to the next game. Oh yeah I almost forgot Good riddance SWTOR Forum troll community may you roast eternally in a fire.

 

You do know that kind of constitutes trolling right?

 

Just saying ...

[LordArtemis]

If you mean my posts to you directly, and perhaps I didn't make it clear to you specifically eartharioch I can't argue against that. But let me share with you my very first post in the thread.

 

 

Hey folks,

 

We know that there have been many questions about the Contraband Slot Machine and its intent. Here are a few notes on it:

• The Contraband Slot Machine is not bugged.
  
• It is 100% not an exploit to use the Slot Machine.
  
• If you feel the desire to sell access to your Stronghold, that’s totally up to you. As a reminder, do not scam people as that is against ToS.
  
• We added the Slot Machine as a fun idea based on the positive feedback from the Nightlife event, so spend those credits to your heart’s content!
  

With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. I will let you know once I know more. In the meantime, have fun!

 

-eric

 

Fantastic!!!!

 

Best addition to the game since the Stronghold QoL change.

 

Please, PLEASE if you make any changes......

1) Consider raising the coin price. I think that would be reasonable, even if they were up to 4 times the current cost.

2) Consider reducing the junk drop rate. That would be fine, but please do not go overboard. A 5 percent reduction in the chances for the jawa junk would probably be sufficient.

3) Leave the rep and cert chances as they are. This is the best part of the feature for most IMO.

 

I would actually support two changes to the game that I think would make sense at this present time.

1) Increase the coin cost to 2000 credits each.

2) Increase the payout from all crew missions by 50 percent, increase the odds of a critical return by 10 percent across the board, and give us a "reshuffle" button to refresh the display of crew missions.

 

IMO both changes would ensure that crew missions retain the kind of appeal they should have and remain an effective credit sink.

 

IMO you MUST raise the coin price substantially if you are going to keep the material drops on the slot machine. The mats should have been added to crew missions and scavenging, but you chose this route instead. I don't think putting them on the machine was a wise move, but what do I know...at least we are finally getting the mats we need.

 

 

 

Perhaps I was not clear to you. If you are putting that forth as your defense for claiming it was my "new stance" than so be it, but you must see your error by now.

 

The point was I WAS HAPPY WE WERE FINALLY GETTING THE MATS WE NEEDED. I clearly thought the source was a dumb idea, but I digressed. At least we were finally getting the mats they said they were going to provide.

 

And that was my point. Yes, as you can clearly see I was happy with the machine as it was, based on the rep and certs. I thought the price was too low based on the mats (which I argued quite a bit) and I also argued for increased mats in missions (as always).

 

The point is simple...whatever your intent, you are wrong, period. Yes, my stance is more harsh, but it has always remained the same. I am just not being NICE about it any longer.

 

You want to call my latest posts pedantic, that is absolutely fair. You want to say my posting behavior has been poor, absolutely. I will accept any criticism that is accurate and is not directed at me personally. You can even accuse my suggestions as lacking any kind of research or foresight....that is fair as well.

 

But jilted bride? New view? Both are unfair personal characterizations no matter how you try and explain them away.

 

Keep the personal insults to yourself. I hope this finally clears this up.

 

So let's quit busting each others' balls over this. I'll quit saying "I told you so" if you quit saying "I knew it all along."

 

Fair enough. We had some good spirited debates on the actual issue, I would rather return to that. Though I likely will not be able to do that for long....I will probably be logged out of the forums after the update, so this could be one of my last posts for a while.

Edited February 10, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Vradic]

Anytime you folks care to let this die, would be great. It ain't gettin fixed, and ya ain't gettin paid. Move on.

[Kadin]

Anytime you folks care to let this die, would be great. It ain't gettin fixed, and ya ain't gettin paid. Move on.

Thanks for bringing this back to the top of the front page. I thought I missed it. Good job.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Kadin

[Krixten]

I don't think a refund is necessary. The cartel certificates were only obtainable by buying cartel packs. In my opinion, those that bought packs got one HELL of a headstart over people who just subscribe. I'm not going to lie, I'm probably one of the biggest so called "Cartel Whales" on the Bergeren Colony Server. I'm also the guy buying up the contraband slot machines people are selling. I got a full blown Nar Shadda Casino in my Stronghold AND I built a full blown casino in my Spice Lords Guild Flagship too. 23 machines in my Stronghold, 18 in the Flagship that looks like a luxury liner! LOL! I got 18 more machines in my vault too. If they fix the slot machines and make them with playing, awesome, if not, I'm not going to cry about it! LOL! Truth to the whole matter is this... life goes on! I would just love to see something that's fun come out of the slot machines that makes them attractive to the basic player, so they can come enjoy themselves in my casinos! Hell, I'm not even looking to make any profit! So, here's another suggestion Bioware...

 

Throw in some small trinkets, like pets, companion gifts, basic commendations, a few cartel speeders, emotes, dances, moods and other cool trinkets and get these machines of mine whistling and beeping in my Stronghold again! LOL

[Krixten]

Ohhhh and one more thing.... I have no intentions of letting this thread die! Why? This is a cool addition to the game and with a little effort and optimism, something good can come out of it! I'm going to keep throwing out ideas and suggestions in a positive manner and hopefully, something influences Bioware to make a change! If no one likes the topic or thread, then stop reading it! LOL!

[Krixten]

Ohhhh and one more thing.... I have no intentions of letting this thread die! Why? This is a cool addition to the game and with a little effort and optimism, something good can come out of it! I'm going to keep throwing out ideas and suggestions in a positive manner and hopefully, something influences Bioware to make a change! If no one likes the topic or thread, then stop reading it! LOL!

[Krixten]

I don't think a refund is necessary. The cartel certificates were only obtainable by buying cartel packs. In my opinion, those that bought packs got one HELL of a headstart over people who just subscribe. I'm not going to lie, I'm probably one of the biggest so called "Cartel Whales" on the Bergeren Colony Server. I'm also the guy buying up the contraband slot machines people are selling. I got a full blown Nar Shadda Casino in my Stronghold AND I built a full blown casino in my Spice Lords Guild Flagship too. 23 machines in my Stronghold, 18 in the Flagship that looks like a luxury liner! LOL! I got 18 more machines in my vault too. If they fix the slot machines and make them with playing, awesome, if not, I'm not going to cry about it! LOL! Truth to the whole matter is this... life goes on! I would just love to see something that's fun come out of the slot machines that makes them attractive to the basic player, so they can come enjoy themselves in my casinos! Hell, I'm not even looking to make any profit! So, here's another suggestion Bioware...

 

Throw in some small trinkets, like pets, companion gifts, basic commendations, a few cartel speeders, emotes, dances, moods and other cool trinkets and get these machines of mine whistling and beeping in my Stronghold again! LOL

[eartharioch]

If you mean my posts to you directly, and perhaps I didn't make it clear to you specifically eartharioch I can't argue against that. But let me share with you my very first post in the thread.

...

Perhaps I was not clear to you. If you are putting that forth as your defense for claiming it was my "new stance" than so be it, but you must see your error by now.

 

The point was I WAS HAPPY WE WERE FINALLY GETTING THE MATS WE NEEDED. I clearly thought the source was a dumb idea, but I digressed. At least we were finally getting the mats they said they were going to provide.

 

And that was my point. Yes, as you can clearly see I was happy with the machine as it was, based on the rep and certs. I thought the price was too low based on the mats (which I argued quite a bit) and I also argued for increased mats in missions (as always).

 

Given that we're well over 2K posts in this thread alone, and that I did ask you to cite your original view earlier, I don't think it's fair to characterize the fact that our specific interactions weighed more heavily in my recollection as an "error". That said, I will retract my "new view" comment.

 

The point is simple...whatever your intent, you are wrong, period. Yes, my stance is more harsh, but it has always remained the same. I am just not being NICE about it any longer.

 

You want to call my latest posts pedantic, that is absolutely fair. You want to say my posting behavior has been poor, absolutely. I will accept any criticism that is accurate and is not directed at me personally. You can even accuse my suggestions as lacking any kind of research or foresight....that is fair as well.

 

But jilted bride? New view? Both are unfair personal characterizations no matter how you try and explain them away.

 

Keep the personal insults to yourself. I hope this finally clears this up.

 

As I said, I retract the "new view" comment. I'll apologize for the "jilted bride" comment, since you seem to think that I meant something personal with it, and I didn't. As I said, I only know you through your posts, so I don't see any difference between commenting on the specific words in them and commenting on the apparent (to me, at least) "attitude" of my abstraction of their author, which (for convenience) I call "you".

 

The "jilted bride" and "woman scorned" terms I used are fairly common literary tropes. A woman (or man) left standing at the altar has a valid and well recognized reason for harboring a grudge against the person standing up her (or him). Unlike a bride or groom unexpectedly left at the altar, I don't think you have a valid reason for making the (imo) petty and spiteful comments about the devs that you made in unrelated posts. You say that it's ok for me to criticize your posting behavior -- well, that's what I was doing. I was doing it in the way that I explicitly said I enjoy using when I parodied Kublai Khan -- in style, and with plenty of pop culture references.

 

FYI, if you wanted to take offense at anything I've said in this thread, it should have been when I called you "Ellsworth". That was the closest I've come to expressing raw, naked hatred of anybody or anything in this thread.

 

Fair enough. We had some good spirited debates on the actual issue, I would rather return to that. Though I likely will not be able to do that for long....I will probably be logged out of the forums after the update, so this could be one of my last posts for a while.

 

Sic transit gloria machina -- lol, I've been waiting to say that ever since the nerf. Anyway, as we discussed when it was more likely that I would be the one not resubbing, I take no pleasure in you (or anybody else) leaving, but I understand. TBH, there's no guarantee I'll resub once my time runs out. For some people, the nerf was too much, and for others it was too little, too late. For me, it was both.

 

I'll leave you with this, the best expression of how this issue has made me feel:

In fact, I'd so far as to say that it [7:30-8:00] accurately portrays my feelings about swtor and BW in general.

 

Sic transit gloria machina indeed.

Edited February 10, 2015 by eartharioch

[idnewton]

This whine-fest is still going on? Some people truly have miserably boring lives.

[idnewton]

And no, I will not be responding to any replies to my posts. The entire argument of this thread exists because people are butthurt that BW made changes to an item, which they reserve the right to do. This thread reeks of entitlement. At the end of the day, some people just can't take "no" for an answer.

 

 

Don't laugh, if you're reading this, you're probably one of those people.

 

 

*unsubscribe from pointless entitlement rant thread*

Edited February 10, 2015 by idnewton

[branmakmuffin]

*unsubscribe from pointless entitlement rant thread*

You won't be able to resist posting again. And even if you actually do manage to resist posting again, you can't prove you're not still reading it.

 

So your attention-mongering is as silly as you seem to think the "slot machine entitlists" are.

[Vhaegrant]

And no, I will not be responding to any replies to my posts. The entire argument of this thread exists because people are butthurt that BW made changes to an item, which they reserve the right to do. This thread reeks of entitlement. At the end of the day, some people just can't take "no" for an answer.

 

 

Don't laugh, if you're reading this, you're probably one of those people.

 

 

*unsubscribe from pointless entitlement rant thread*

 

I'm more concerned that a poorly thought out item was introduced to a live server environment and then fixed with an as equally poorly thought out fix, after opaque communication that said the first release was working as programmed and not an exploit and balance would be looked at, and then changing the drop rates of items that were no mentioned.

Not butthurt at all, even without taking advantage of the item I was able to max out my reputation with the cartel vendor far cheaper than if I had tried to do it through cartel packs alone. And if that was the sole intention of the device then all well and good... just don't put Jawa tokens and cartel certificates on it in the first place.

 

I've kind of got my fingers crossed that the expansion showed people were willing to return to the game for more class story content and that is a more viable use of resources than the development of a stand alone game that would struggle to compete against the likes of 'Evolove'. Hopefully abandoning 'Shadow Realms' will allow some, if not all, of the developers to return to work on SWTOR and get the experience and quality of delivery back up there. Thus avoiding spectacular fails such as the contraband slot machine and the removal of training costs.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Vhaegrant

[Kalarie]

What will happen first?

 

1) BW comments about refunds on the slot machines

2) We stop asking for refunds?

 

 

Where is my refund? At this point it's been so long that I think my State allows for penalties and interest*. XD

 

 

*Please don't flame that, it's in good humor, not a threat of legal action. Seriously, legal action on credits, not happening.

[AlrikFassbauer]

and then fixed with an as equally poorly thought out fix,

 

I'm sure that some crafters actually found this "fix" *very* pleasing to them ...

[branmakmuffin]

Not butthurt at all, even without taking advantage of the item I was able to max out my reputation with the cartel vendor far cheaper than if I had tried to do it through cartel packs alone. And if that was the sole intention of the device then all well and good... just don't put Jawa tokens and cartel certificates on it in the first place.

As I posted somewhere a while back, if they had released it in an even more pathetic state than it is in now, then "buffed" it to its current state, people would be praising them as heroes.

[Washi_rfd]

As a crafter myself (Mastercrafter title, most crew skills types at 500 still working on the others) the fix was actually worse than the problem, certificates/mount sure 1 in a million chance is about right, Materials 1/100 chance err, that may have went a bit far. the rest not too fussed, but the green rep items seemed a bit too common basicly a 3/4 chance of a green rep when you got a bullseye on the machine.

 

Basically ours sits in our guild house gathering dust because no-one has money to waste.

[NordBlast]

So, the opportunity to silently un-nerf Slot Machine was totally wasted...

 

Great Job BW.

[RahaylaCora]

Hi, Mr. Musco. Is this machine working as intended or still broken? You know, to avoid exploiting it.

[Max_Killjoy]

I'm sure that some crafters actually found this "fix" *very* pleasing to them ...

 

Not sure why crafters would be pleased with something that makes their raw materials harder to get...

 

Unless they're afraid that cheaper mats would lead to people crafting for themselves instead of allowing themselves to be gouged on GTN.

[Neglience]

Not sure why crafters would be pleased with something that makes their raw materials harder to get...

 

Unless they're afraid that cheaper mats would lead to people crafting for themselves instead of allowing themselves to be gouged on GTN.

 

You can craft for yourself, right now. You just do not want to put the effort/time into it. Despite that, you keep complaining over other players, who take the effort, craft stuff for themself and still have some left to sell.

 

I have the impression, you think that crafters should sell their stuff for a few thousand credits profit. That is pretty cheap, considering that you refuse to even craft for yourself, because you think it is to much of your time. But others should do that for literally nothing.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Neglience

[Max_Killjoy]

You can craft for yourself, right now. You just do not want to put the effort/time into it. Despite that, you keep complaining over other players, who take the effort, craft stuff for themself and still have some left to sell.

 

I have the impression, you think that crafters should sell their stuff for a few thousand credits profit. That is pretty cheap, considering that you refuse to even craft for yourself, because you think it is to much of your time. But others have to do that for literally nothing.

 

Because I point out that the rarity of materials is a problem, and point out that gathering and crafting are two entirely different things that certain players like to conflate for some reason...

 

...you assume that I don't craft for my own use.

 

 

Interesting.

 

Of course, it's been interesting from the start, the way that people assert that making materials more easily available will make things worse for "crafters".