The Contraband Slot Machine

[LordArtemis]

Well, I criticized them harshly for avoiding a dialog that dealt with ANYTHING important to the community IMO, and they have improved that situation recently.

 

Sure, they have not discussed this matter, but frankly the damage is done in this case. They had a chance to open a dialog and that chance has passed in my view.

 

They are doing better, but I think it is going to take quite a while for confidence to be restored in this team.

[branmakmuffin]

I wouldn't be opposed to BW adding another trivial 'fluff' item type on the machine's win table just to give players that many more 'success' rolls to make it more enjoyable

Exactly so. All it has to be is fun, not game-shatteringly awesome.

[Neglience]

Fully agree, given that bioware `monitored statistics around the slot machine's usage' Id be interested to know if anyone is still using it since the Nerf rendered it less use than a grey trash item.

 

It hasnt got a credit from me since they changed the drop rates...... is anyone actually still playing it.

 

Yes, quite a few peoples are posting here on the forum and they spend millions on the machine.

[ivanhedgehog]

Yeah, at this point in time, I'm pretty sure they have no intention of ever discussing it again.

 

and that is the biggest mistake of the whole incident. they have let their customers know exactly what bw thinks of them, a bunch of sheep with no memory and deep pockets. nothing more. the fact that they couldnt be bothered to make an official statement on their own forum shows this. making an offhand comment at a $30 a head cantina event is not going to cover this.

[MotorCityMan]

Add items to the drop list for the slot machines. The list of possibilities is exhaustive. Put a CD on it's use, to foil auto mouse click bot programs. Fix it, don't nerf it into oblivion. Bioware's reacting to their mistake with; Oh, you don't like what we did? Fine, we will break the toy we gave you and never give you another one and make sure you never have fun with it again.

How childish.

Edited February 5, 2015 by MotorCityMan

[LordArtemis]

If they really wanted to make the machines desirable items they would have to the do the following....

 

Return Cert drop rates to 2%

Increase token win rate by 18%

 

AND i believe they would have to make any decoration purchased with certs bound on pickup.

 

If they wanted to PERFECT the machine they could do one of four things......

 

- Increase green and blue scrap rates back to normal, increase coin cost to 2000 per.

- Increase green scrap rates back to normal, raise coin cost to 1000 per.

- Increase all scrap rates back to normal but make them special universal mats that are BOP, as well as the items crafted with the mats.

- Completely remove scrap from the drop table, but add 7 random highly desired top end mounts to the loot tables, each with an equal drop chance to the walker.

 

I would prefer the fourth option.

 

So, for me, if I were to actually adjust the machine, this is what I would do.....

 

Return Certs to 2% drop rate, but bind all decorations purchased with certs from the CSM on pickup.

Increase token win rate by 18%

Completely remove scrap form the drop table, but add 7 more mounts with equal drop chance.

 

This would make the machine perfect at its current coin price point IMO, and make it a decent credit sink to boot.

Edited February 5, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Minigal]

Exactly so. All it has to be is fun, not game-shatteringly awesome.

 

Right??

 

For instance, now you NEVER see the awesome win animation with the disco ball and the confetti.

 

I used to dance with my companion or a friend everytime that happened. And now, nothing. Like ever.

 

I just want the fun back for my GSH.

 

This may seem insignificant to many of you, but this "silly" issue got me out of like, never posting on the Forums (although I read them regularly). I'm a Founder, very enthusiastic about the game overall, and have spent WAY WAY too much on the Cartel Market. I don't have any way to communicate with the devs and team, evidently (since I certainly feel all communication on this issue has been cut off) so my only way to speak is to stop buying cartel market items. Sigh. I'd much rather continue to throw my money at Bioware.

[eartharioch]

If they really wanted to make the machines desirable items they would have to the do the following....

 

Return Cert drop rates to 2%

Increase token win rate by 18%

 

AND i believe they would have to make any decoration purchased with certs bound on pickup.

 

If they wanted to PERFECT the machine they could do one of four things......

 

- Increase green and blue scrap rates back to normal, increase coin cost to 2000 per.

- Increase green scrap rates back to normal, raise coin cost to 1000 per.

- Increase all scrap rates back to normal but make them special universal mats that are BOP, as well as the items crafted with the mats.

- Completely remove scrap from the drop table, but add 7 random highly desired top end mounts to the loot tables, each with an equal drop chance to the walker.

 

I would prefer the fourth option.

 

So, for me, if I were to actually adjust the machine, this is what I would do.....

 

Return Certs to 2% drop rate, but bind all decorations purchased with certs from the CSM on pickup.

Increase token win rate by 18%

Completely remove scrap form the drop table, but add 7 more mounts with equal drop chance.

 

This would make the machine perfect at its current coin price point IMO, and make it a decent credit sink to boot.

 

1) The problem with dropping certs isn't *just* that they can purchase resalable decorations, it's also that they can be used at the all the cartel vendors. A 2% rate meant about 1 per five minutes, and even at 2K per token, it would be 50K (minus rep token vendoring) per certificate. This would almost completely devalue packs as a method of giving certs.

 

2) It would probably be an annoying amount of work to track CSM certs separately from Pack certs -- either making a new cert type and adding it to the vendors or adding some sort of tracking field and coding other vendors to reject them.

 

As I've mentioned elsewhere, they could leave the certs at the current low drop rate and just add the Contraband vendor [cert] merchandise to the drop table (maybe making it BoL instead of BoP). That way, no new items (mounts) need to be made, no worries about the resale, players can get the Contraband vendor items without needing certs that would disrupt other markets, and more ways to win.

[Muljo_Stpho]

There's one small suggestion for an alternate prize suggestion that I don't think I've seen mentioned in any of these topics. What about the "credit boom" / "credit explosion" items that also sometimes drop from packs?

 

Obviously there would be some careful balancing involved. They would probably want the odds and the price per token set so that the average cost (after accounting for credits made back from selling rep items) to see that particular result come up would be a bit higher than the average of how many credits the item can give you. Some might get really lucky and get that drop with less investment and get a larger than average return out of it. Some might get really unlucky and get that drop with more investment and get a smaller than average return out of it. But it would always feel like a huge payout when it comes up yet it will still be a credit sink on average for all instances of it dropping.

 

Just how low of a drop rate would be low enough to hit that sweet spot on taking more credits out of circulation than it generates though? Would it become yet another nearly impossible drop like where the Jawa scrap and cartel certificates ended up?

 

Aside from that though, yeah. Find plenty of other prizes to make the machine look attractive. Add (bound, of course) copies of some of the items sold at the corresponding rep vendor to the possible prizes. Or something.

 

Hmmm...

 

Maybe add a certificate unique to the slot machine (prize tickets, like you get from Skee Ball?) that can be traded (at steep prices) for other prizes somewhere. This could be used to balance Jawa scrap and pack certificate rates as well, perhaps? For an example, say that machine certs drop on average 25 per hour but it costs 30 per green scrap, 60 per blue scrap, and 90 per purple scrap... And instead of purchasing pack certs directly the Jawas get options so you can purchase the pack certs at a hefty cost of 6 green scrap, 4 blue scrap, and 2 purple scrap apiece (on average about 24 hours worth of crazytown grinding on the slots to get the tickets to buy all that different scrap (maybe I went overboard on that idea though)). But there would be other prizes beyond just those things to choose from as well when you look to see what you can spend the machine's certs on. Distractions to make sure that scrap isn't really our big driving factor in them anyway.

 

And each new machine added later on could follow that same model. Prize tickets for rep related prizes and an expensive way to purchase Jawa scrap (which is unfortunate but necessary because of those who would use the machines excessively in the hopes of grinding out lots of these).

 

What would be a good target for prices on other prizes though? About 8 hours worth of prize tickets per prize? Much less than that since they'd be bound anyway? Much more than that to keep them somewhat rare?

Edited February 6, 2015 by Muljo_Stpho

[Vhaegrant]

Right??

 

For instance, now you NEVER see the awesome win animation with the disco ball and the confetti.

 

I used to dance with my companion or a friend everytime that happened. And now, nothing. Like ever.

 

I just want the fun back for my GSH.

 

This may seem insignificant to many of you, but this "silly" issue got me out of like, never posting on the Forums (although I read them regularly). I'm a Founder, very enthusiastic about the game overall, and have spent WAY WAY too much on the Cartel Market. I don't have any way to communicate with the devs and team, evidently (since I certainly feel all communication on this issue has been cut off) so my only way to speak is to stop buying cartel market items. Sigh. I'd much rather continue to throw my money at Bioware.

 

Getting the fun back would be nice

 

Ironing out some of the inconsistencies would be better... at 750cr a slot-chip and a green rep token able to be vendored at 500cr it makes me smile that you get a 'Winner' animation when you are losing

Then again I guess you could say anyone that is still playing the slots for anything other than rep is already losing

Edited February 6, 2015 by Vhaegrant

[Muljo_Stpho]

Getting the fun back would be nice

 

Ironing out some of the inconsistencies would be better... at 750cr a slot-chip and a green rep token able to be vendored at 500cr it makes me smile that you get a 'Winner' animation when you are losing

Then again I guess you could say anyone that is still playing the slots for anything other than rep is already losing

 

I was saying at the start, while tokens were 500 apiece, that it seemed extremely backwards to classify rep token wins as "jackpots" and Jawa scrap wins as an ordinary "meh, I guess we can call it a win" type of win with as much lack of fanfare as receiving your coin back.

 

The increase in price on the tokens makes it even worse. At least a green rep token win could be called "breaking even" (on the cost of one gambling chip) with the old price. Now, as you said, a green rep "win" is really a loss. But woohoo hooray flash those lights you got some rep!

 

Rep tokens aren't prizes. They're consolation prizes. They're the "nice" way to lose. (Especially after future iterations of these machines since one of their few comments on this whole thing mentioned that they had always intended to raise the token price with each new machine released. So at some point the cost could match or exceed what the vendors will give for blue rep, and they'll bump it up and up to creep close to the vendor price for purple rep as well after that.)

Edited February 6, 2015 by Muljo_Stpho

[LordArtemis]

When the CSM was released, they likely didn't spend a single moment thinking about what kind of negative effects it could have on the game. Likewise, when they released the nuke they likely didn't waste one second thinking about what they were doing to the device with respect to fun.

 

I mean, after all, the word "awesome" was used. Yea. It sure is awesome, isn't it.

 

So, I expect they will not waste one single calorie considering the dump they took all over this thing. As far as they are concerned, they may have wrapped their car around a telephone pole after a night of binge drinking, but hey....

 

...at least they walked away. The problem should fix itself, right?

[Zipacnaa]

 

...at least they walked away. The problem should fix itself, right?

 

Well .. they can do one of two things (and both will pour fresh fuel on the fire):

 

1. Speak publicly again since Cantina session, perhaps change the drop rate. Some will be happy, others will not. Flame war continues.
   
2. Keep their heads firmly buried in the sand. Flame war continues, for a little bit and dies down.
   

 

Seeing as we're talking about a gambling machine: which way do ya all see the odds going for above ..

[Dras_Keto]

...at least they walked away. The problem should fix itself, right?

 

How many threads are there on the front page of GD about this issue?

 

Id say walking away from the problem and completely ignoring it is working out pretty well for Bioware. Their customer base seems incapable of focusing their attention on an issue for more than a week and a half or so.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Dras_Keto

[branmakmuffin]

How many threads are there on the front page of GD about this issue?

 

Id say walking away from the problem and completely ignoring it is working out pretty well for Bioware. Their customer base seems incapable of focusing their attention on an issue for more than a week and a half or so.

That's how people are, of course. Once you wave a new shiny rock in their face, they forget about the old one.

[LordArtemis]

That's how people are, of course. Once you wave a new shiny rock in their face, they forget about the old one.

 

Well, a good start would be if throw out some of the shiny rocks to the playerbase instead of using them to pound their foreheads every time they get an idea.....

 

Sometimes when I am talking to them I feel like I am talking to a cable company.

[LordArtemis]

Well .. they can do one of two things (and both will pour fresh fuel on the fire):

 

1. Speak publicly again since Cantina session, perhaps change the drop rate. Some will be happy, others will not. Flame war continues.
   
2. Keep their heads firmly buried in the sand. Flame war continues, for a little bit and dies down.
   

 

Seeing as we're talking about a gambling machine: which way do ya all see the odds going for above ..

 

Keeping quiet. But I think it is likely, at least in this case, it is more disinterest than avoiding controversy.

[jpswtor]

I am just happy i have the forums to vent some steam. Let them fix the more serious bugs before getting back to this. But I still am quite upset about the whole thing. Especially when I think of the bogus reason "it hurt the economy".

 

JP

[Tsillah]

I am just happy i have the forums to vent some steam. Let them fix the more serious bugs before getting back to this. But I still am quite upset about the whole thing. Especially when I think of the bogus reason "it hurt the economy".

 

JP

 

It's a silly thing to be so upset over. Of all the things that happen in this world people go nuts over this...it's sad really.

[jpswtor]

It's a silly thing to be so upset over. Of all the things that happen in this world people go nuts over this...it's sad really.

 

Who are you to tell other people what they are entitled to be upset about? Some people claim that spending any time on computer games while <their_most_pressing_issue> is still out in <the_place_they_care_about>. So what?

 

You sound like those arrogant physicians that spent some time in the so called 3rd world. They tend to belittle their local patient's afflictions because they are all 1st world issues. Not worth their attention.

 

As I said before, if you don't like reading about slot machine rage, don't click on the threads.

 

Cheers

 

JP

[Tsillah]

Who are you to tell other people what they are entitled to be upset about? Some people claim that spending any time on computer games while <their_most_pressing_issue> is still out in <the_place_they_care_about>. So what?

 

You sound like those arrogant physicians that spent some time in the so called 3rd world. They tend to belittle their local patient's afflictions because they are all 1st world issues. Not worth their attention.

 

As I said before, if you don't like reading about slot machine rage, don't click on the threads.

 

Cheers

 

JP

 

You are indeed free to be a child about completely ridiculous topics. And I am free to have the opinion that you are overreacting and being completely childish about such an insignificant issue.

 

There is no need to talk about the 3rd world. Even within the first world this is a non-issue. People shouldn't be so ready to think that just cause they feel angry it must be justified. It isn't, but feel free to go on. I am not stopping you, just hoping your common sense wakes up somewhere along the line making you realise how silly this really is.

[LordArtemis]

It's a silly thing to be so upset over. Of all the things that happen in this world people go nuts over this...it's sad really.

 

What actually seems odd is your obsession with those that express negative feelings about this issue.

 

You do not determine what is significant for others, and you most certainly do not set the standard by which folks can be considered childish.

Edited February 7, 2015 by LordArtemis

[RocketRabbit]

It's been a couple weeks, and absolutely zero forum response from any Bioware/EA employee. So I unsubbed this afternoon. Below is my exit poll commentary.

 

 

"Your poor handling of the recent Cartel Slot Machine issue has made me regret the $3,000+ I have spent on this game. I am sorry that I, as a customer, do not warrant a community service representative's reply to the furor on the forums regarding the bait-and-switch tactic you pulled with the latest Cartel Market packs.

 

It is a total shame that our concerns have been completely ignored. I will no longer support your business with my money, and will go out of my way to convince others to do the same.

 

This could have been prevented by your company having the fortitude to have Mr. Musco actually comment on the forums and explain the poor communication, the ridiculously bad changes to items purchased with real money, and what plan is being made to fix the issue."

 

Good luck to you all, and I hope Bioware/EA decide their customers are worth taking 10 minutes to address.

[LordArtemis]

For me, this issue alone was not enough to unsub. This was the straw, so to speak, that broke the camels back.

 

My main issue was a lack of proper communication and the fact that the machine drops mats in the first place. That was an absolutely foolish move, one that was made worse by the "fix".

 

But by itself, for me, that is a small issue. Adding this issue to the LONG list of issue with 3.0 and the recent level of absolute rookie behavior and unprofessional conduct displayed by management of this title, I was convinced to remove my funding.

 

I expect they will correct course at some point, but I will not reward them for their current behavior by providing revenue. It is the one way I can truly present my disdain with their recent performance.

 

They need to get their act together....FAST.

[Tsillah]

What actually seems odd is your obsession with those that express negative feelings about this issue.

 

Just because I replied a few times about it today?

 

It just gets really old. I would like to see some other stuff here finally when I come to the forums that usually aren't this bad. At least there were some real issues before, now it's just annoying and with that completly unnecessary and pointless. So yeh that irks me because this is a topic that is so silly that it should've run its course by now.

 

I don't find that odd. What I do find odd is that it's suddenly an obsession because of a handful of posts. Is it so difficult to understand that some people might get tired of this incessant verbal diarrhea about this topic? This is the SWTOR forum and not the slot machine forum. It was fine that people were upset about it initially. I do get that, but come on, can we just get over this and complain about sensible things again?