Draqsko Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) I do disassembly required with both my Scorpios, both my Tharan Cedrax, both my Mako, both my Yuun .. can't remember who else but you get the idea. I also do the quest for box "lovely at the top" which often drops mission discoveries. As I said, I have gone 2 full days with not one purple from those missions, using expert slicers .. rep maxed at 10000. Other days I do better. Today was a pretty good day finally. If Disassembly required doesn't pop I do Forsaken Handshake. If neither pops I skip that toon, or port to another stronghold to try and reshuffle to get either to pop. It can be frustrating and expensive going 2 days with no result. Run all the lockbox missions, even the moderate or abundant, at the very least you'll get a return on credits, and at best it could be a 50% return with a crew mission (yes I've gotten those with the moderate yield lockboxes even). There is no cost negative lockbox mission at grade 11. If you do all lockbox missions plus Bountiful plus Rich slicing mat missions, plus all slicing crew discoveries, you will never run out of credits even if you stockpile the mats. I netted up to 2 million grinding out the ACs on my slicer for my main's PVE set augmenting. Slicing is the only crew skill you never have to leave a stronghold or the fleet to make money, or even have to sell anything you got. All the rest are a credit sink, slicing is a printing machine. Other crew skills, cost credits to get mats. Slicing, costs credits to get even more credits PLUS mats. Edit: My slicer never leaves the guild ship, he never does any dailies, pvp, anything. All he does is sit there and slice lockboxes all day, all yields on grade 11, only rich yields on the lower grades (for the crew missions they generate there, which I use on alts). When I get a bunch of missions I send them to alt that uses them, when it's a bunch of slicing discoveries, I run them as I have space inthe queue. Always a max crit companion to run the discovery mission, and always when the rich mission isn't availible immediately. Edited January 23, 2015 by Draqsko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I disagree; the clue's in the name of the comms it costs at the vendor, Basic. Imho Tier 192 and above are the luxury items, and only need to be available to people achieving a set of objectives at a certain challenge level. But it makes perfect sense for crafted 186 to be obtainable with a relative ease and democratic affordability when the game itself considers it to be the baseline level 60 tier. Incorrect. The game considers the stuff that is given to you for free by the various quest givers amounting to a full set of equipment the baseline level 60 gear. The consider the set with blue slooted enhancements that you get from running standard flashpoints repeatedly the next step up, they also drop basic comms too, to help you afford the FIRST tier of purchased goods from the gear vendors. With the gear you can purchase from the 'basic' vendor (EG- first tier of comm purchased items) you can more likely completeHM's etc with pugs that afford you NEW commendations (Elite) tobut the next tier of vendored goods. Which in turn help you obtain commendations (Ultimate) for the last tier. The do not expect you to flip a bit from 59 to 60 and then immediately have 186 Basic gear. Though with some simple planning you can manage it on your own. The content though is NOT balanced for that. The content is balanced for the 'trash' set you are basically given for free by running the quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) I beg to differ. You see, I've been hearing complaints about crafting percentages for 3 years. "RE isn't 10%/20%", "Crew Mission percent is too low", etc. So when 3.0 dropped, I logged every single crew mission I ran, until I got bored and stopped doing it. It's pretty danged close to 20%. Other people have done similar tests. The more missions they run, the closer the expected percentages are reached. On the other hand, the people that say "no the percentages are wrong!" only provide anecdotal information. As you just did above. Want to make a case for the crit rate being out of whack? Start logging your missions. If you're right, you'll have some actual useful data to bring to the bugs forum. This is good information. I am quoting in full hoping that if this thread is being read by a dev/community person they have their attention brought back to it. This is very good information for everyone to have and it also helps establish a fair baseline for the 'cost' of obtaining materials through the slots. Your cost per material is a bit lower than I expected (average) but as you say it involved selling things toarrive at the figure. You may want to put up the raw costswithout selling other mats. I am sure I might be able to glean the information from your text and do it myself but I'm going to claim 'lazy' today and not do it. So, lets work from Doonium prices. Lets say it costs @6,000 credits to obtain a Doonium. I would suggest then that the slots, the cost per token, the return from expected results, etc should all be balanced to make the cost pr Jawa Junk obtained $9,000 to $12,000. This serves the function of making the material more accessible to the community, but continues to leave gathering skills as the most cost efficient method of gathering stuff. This makes for a fair system. You can use the slots for 'immediate' gains at an increased cost (credit sink for the economy.. good thing) and for quick personal crafting OR you can use gathering skills for the long haul gains of using your crafting skills/gathering skills as a method of returning an income for your characters. The GTN/second hand market for materials would likely have its lowest price still much lower than prior but still higher than using a slot or much much higher than gathering, but you get you results immediately and sometimes that convenience is important to people. Would be fair all around. OH, but make the Vehicle .001 not .001%. Kingpin Rancor was .001, one in one thousand. (actually 9 in 10,000 with the buff, but rounding) so the walker drop is 100 time less likely than a kingpin rancor and for a reskinned walker with broken attributes.. totally not worth it. In fact, I would suggest walker mounts should be bind to legacy and maybe have 1 in 500 odds because.. seriously? its just a speeder. Edited January 23, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I still think the best way to handle this is to have a universal scrap, bound to you, that can be used in place of any similar grade material in your personal crafting. The items you make with it are also bound to you. This way you cant sell the mats or the items made with the scrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolunart Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I still think the best way to handle this is to have a universal scrap, bound to you, that can be used in place of any similar grade material in your personal crafting. The items you make with it are also bound to you. This way you cant sell the mats or the items made with the scrap. Not a bad idea but it requires a complete rewrite of the entire crafting system to shoehorn in "Material X" that can count as any other material, and they need to add new versions of every crafted item to make it Bind on Pickup instead of Equip. It's a pretty extensive fix for a minor problem, and likely to cause a lot of problems by itself. Again, it's not a bad idea but it is a complicated one, and not likely to be worth its cost to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Not a bad idea but it requires a complete rewrite of the entire crafting system to shoehorn in "Material X" that can count as any other material, and they need to add new versions of every crafted item to make it Bind on Pickup instead of Equip. It's a pretty extensive fix for a minor problem, and likely to cause a lot of problems by itself. Again, it's not a bad idea but it is a complicated one, and not likely to be worth its cost to implement. Fair enough but I strongly disagree. The benefits, IMO, especially in the long run far outweigh any cost or effort to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Fair enough but I strongly disagree. The benefits, IMO, especially in the long run far outweigh any cost or effort to implement. Hey Art FYI didn't get a chance to get our deal done (flu) so hopefully I'll get down to my office this weekend for you. Just wanted to let you know I didn't forget about ya... Carry on with your suggestions...btw BOP would piss off the first group of QQers so we would be where we were last week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnaarl Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Forsaken Handshake + Disassembly required are the missions for purples, the rest you only run for lockboxes. That way there is no credit loss by continuously sending companion on crew skills. Each purple should be a matter of gain only atm. I can see how that wouldnt be the case though if you do skip the lockboxes on your other 4 companions aside from the 2 sliced parts quests. Gl I have to agree that the current drop rate on the new crafting missions is way below par. I only use companions with a slicing crit. Even Mako with her supposed +15 will fail about 60% of the missions I send her on. I also only send on rich/bountiful missions. The times that do not fail yield 4-12 of the blue mats only with the very very rare epic x2. I think it has been a major increase in failed missions and decrease for epic materials. The cost to do missions outweighs value of the materials gathered. Making doing the crafting mission non viable. Having another source for gaining these mats...ie the slot machines...was a brilliant idea. The initial pay out may have been slightly high, however the "nerf" made it useless. Also the price of slicing crafting mission unlocks far out weigh the 3 epics gained. This issues needs to be adjusted more than the slot machines...imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docbenwayddo Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 ...Even Mako with her supposed +15 will fail about 60% of the missions... She will fail them 15% faster because she has +15 Slicing Efficiency, not crit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnaarl Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 She will fail them 15% faster because she has +15 Slicing Efficiency, not crit. That makes sense. Thanks for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Well, there is no doubt in my mind that the real issue is crew missions, specifically gathering missions and the amount of suck contained therein. I have posted a few suggestions to improve crafting and crew missions, and the community has quite a few floating around. Hopefully we as a community start to hold their feet to the fire on this and get the missions improved once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 How did this discussion become civil? I brought my popcorn for nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 How did this discussion become civil? I brought my popcorn for nothing! Heh, sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Fair enough but I strongly disagree. The benefits, IMO, especially in the long run far outweigh any cost or effort to implement. This is BioWare's SWTOR team. History shows that asking them to re-code the crafting algorithms is essentially identical to asking them to break crafting for months if not permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leihn Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Fair enough but I strongly disagree. The benefits, IMO, especially in the long run far outweigh any cost or effort to implement. I highly doubt you know the cost, so I think it's illogical for you to say the benefits will outweigh them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) I highly doubt you know the cost, so I think it's illogical for you to say the benefits will outweigh them. Not if I think cost is no object. I would also remind folks that those saying it would not be worth the cost are working from the exact same figure...their imagination. So, ceterus paribus, my supposition carries just as much logic as any other contention. Edited January 23, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpenttt Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Took about 7k chips, but here she is . Looks better than the imp side one IMO. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1fqquvu5arelyts/Screenshot%202015-01-23%2013.32.19.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/7jxk1x93rbcr9m7/Screenshot%202015-01-23%2013.32.28.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/b4d5i92oubmwj3u/Screenshot%202015-01-23%2013.32.35.png?dl=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolunart Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Fair enough but I strongly disagree. The benefits, IMO, especially in the long run far outweigh any cost or effort to implement. In the end, neither of our opinions matter, it's what the devs think about it that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leihn Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Not if I think cost is no object. I would also remind folks that those saying it would not be worth the cost are working from the exact same figure...their imagination. So, ceterus paribus, my supposition carries just as much logic as any other contention. Both of those contentions are illogical. Neither party knows the cost, thus they cannot know if the benefits can outweigh them or not. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Took about 7k chips, but here she is . Looks better than the imp side one IMO. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1fqquvu5arelyts/Screenshot%202015-01-23%2013.32.19.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/7jxk1x93rbcr9m7/Screenshot%202015-01-23%2013.32.28.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/b4d5i92oubmwj3u/Screenshot%202015-01-23%2013.32.35.png?dl=0 So... worth 5 million eh? Not if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Both of those contentions are illogical. Neither party knows the cost, thus they cannot know if the benefits can outweigh them or not. ???? ceterus paribus...you do understand what that means, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpenttt Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 So... worth 5 million eh? Not if you ask me. Credits are just credits, and 3.0 has been very good to me in that regard. I'm glad to be done with the machine until it's rebalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leihn Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 ceterus paribus...you do understand what that means, correct? Yes, and it's irrelevant here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Yes, and it's irrelevant here. LOL. Now your just talking nonsense. The ENTIRE PREMISE of your argument has been irrelevant. Edited January 23, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leihn Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 LOL. Now your just talking nonsense. Your ENTIRE PREMISE has been irrelevant. Like your entire posting style is sensationalist rhetoric. You proposed a false clause to start with (that your change would produce a benefit) and then went on to generalize that the benefit would be so great that it would eclipse any possible cost. Both of these statements are clear exaggerations and empty of any actual substance, which would be what an objective oriented cost-benefit analysis could produce, rather than specious conjecture backed up by... nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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