Bioware, please consider some PvP Balancing by actual Skilled Arena players.

[Insomniaq-]

I've mained tank since 2.0 in all forms of PvP. I've gone by many names during my time in the ranked scene: Insomniaq, Atense and my newest FOTM OP tank, Amersu. I've been in a top team in Ranked 8v8 for multiple months on Prophecy of the Five, and I've been a part of multiple successful ranked Arena teams as a tank. I even achieved Rank 1 in group on my powertech in season one (on the north american servers) Playing either full tank or the AP hybrid, even the old Pyrotech.

 

You guys need to start listening to the PvP players that actually play ranked to its fullest potential, not your devs, or the casual regular warzone players.

 

We've all seen the community PvP streams, sorry but you're not that good at your own game in PvP as your players.

 

Currently in PvP theres are FOTM players that suck (Sadly... the majority)

 

Then there are skilled players that main classes that ARE FOTM (Which make the class even MORE powerful)

 

Then, bad players that main classes that aren't FOTM that complain a lot (Again the majority of this game..)

 

Then there are skilled players that main classes that aren't FOTM. (Totally unable to compete against Good Players on FOTM classes but still beat the FOTM players that suck.)

 

 

In case you guys don't know.. The top 2 DPS classes in Competitive ranked PvP are Hatred Assassin at #1 and Advanced Prototype Powertech at #2

 

This is what Hatred Assassins are Capable of:

The problem with assassins is they are breaking ranked right now. They have two different escapes on top of having superb CC immunity, while at the same time being almost impossible to kite and are easily capable of putting out 2.5k-3k scoreboard DPS under fire while also having burst capabilities, not to mention alot of scoreboard HPS.

 

Right now the best ranked 4s comp is to use 2 hatred sins since no healer can heal through that, and no hardswtich comp can pin them down. The only thing that can really counter Hatred is purges and only operatives and assassins have purges, and operative DPS are not effective in ranked which means the only counter to a Hatred comp in ranked is a another Hatred comp.

 

I edited his Original post slightly but I agree with everything else.

 

Now, for Advanced Prototype Powertechs have the ability to 100-0 someone in their burst by themselves with 0 assistance from another class.. besides the second powertech splitting dps on your other teammate that needs guard because he would get 100-0ed as well...

Thermal Det, Energy Burst Railshot Spam 7 rockets into target GG you're dead.

 

These two classes are over tuned and need to be looked at.

 

Classes that have the possibility of becoming over tuned if powertech and hatred assassins get nerfed:

 

Sorcerers - They are currently overrated due to easily being shut down by their counter classes, assassins (GG Shroud), powertechs (lololol If I can hit you, you're dead) and vengeance jugs (they can interrupt almost every cast and put out a ton of single target pressure) but are still very strong compared to other classes

 

Vengeance Juggernauts They are currently pretty strong, but still not as good as an AP Powertech in their spot in a ranked 4s team.

 

Classes that need help:

 

Marauders - at least one of there specs need to be viable.. currently its suicide running a marauder in ranked.

 

Sniper - Some people can make it work, but it is still not as good as running a top tier class. All Specs need help

 

Operative - Okay heals, not top tier anymore but still able to be ran due to flashbang being amazing because everyone runs sorcerer heals now and nobody can cleanse it. DPS is average, very bursty.. not top tier compared to a powertech burst though.

 

Mercenary - Easily shut down in PvP.. Basically a Ghetto Lightning sorc. Heals are subpar compared to the other classes... Skilled players can make it work, but not ran very often because of how strong sorcerer healers are. Really only valuable for a cheesy Electro net Kill

 

Juggernaut - Immortal just feels weaker than the other two options currently. Squishier than a powertech tank, does less damage than either of the other tanks, but great in solo ranked. Rage is underpowered, Vengeance is great. though!

 

This is all Data from an experienced arena player in this game playing with and against some of the best players this game has left on my server, Prophecy of the five.

 

Thanks for reading my book

-Cheers

 

Ideas towards fixing the Overtuned classes (Powertech and Hatred Assassins)

 

Fix for pt: slow rockets put them back on the 1 second global. remove autocrit on energy burst bring back 15% crit chance on railshot at all times.

 

Fix for hatred assassins: Remove Bloodletting (Your DoTs have a 30% chance to reset the cooldown on assassinate and allows it to be used on target at any health level.) Lower the base damage of Leeching strike by ~33%

 

Feel free to suggest for this and how other classes can be helped.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Insomniaq-

[ToMyMa]

Mercenary - Ghetto Lightning sorc.

 

Glorious

[Magira]

0/10

There is no Skilled player in a simplified PVP mode for E-Pen Lovers.

[Insomniaq-]

Glorious

 

[Defecter]

It all boils down to this; They pander to the wishes of the majority. Not the wishes of the minority. And rightly so for any competent business. Every time I see this 'listen to the top players' crap, I facepalm. If you honestly believe they are going to do that in a game that doesn't even pretend to want to have anything to do with e-sport type gameplay, you're basically deluding yourself.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I wish they did. I really do. But if you want competitive and balanced PvP, you're in the wrong game.

 

If anything, they need to fix bolster (yeah... lawl, like that's every going to happen ), because it affects every segment of the PvP community. The entire mid-brackets are FUBAR and it's become beyond retarded at max level on a fresh 60. You need to wade through a 40-page forum thread to finally understand how bolster works for a fresh, non-pvp geared toon at 60. And like it or not, it's still a fairly large part of the player base that actually plays in mid-brackets.

 

Bolster screws up any semblance of balance anyway. No matter how balanced the classes themselves are, as long as bolster is quite badly understood (even by the devs themselves apparantly) and complex or just downright retarded (mid-brackets), the majority of players will suffer more then the minority that does understand/handle it well.

 

After you get bolstering on a level playing field, that's when the class balance should be done. Otherwise the class balance will be shot to hell on the next bolster change anyway.

 

Why they don't just give everyone a balanced stat level that is used in lowbies to avoid gear-related bolster altogether, is beyond me. In lowbie PvP there isn't any PvP gear progression anyway. Everyone should be on a level playing field and let the skill determine the winner.

 

And why they don't just bolster everyone's level 60 PvE gear, regardless of level, to a PvP tier 0.5 or something in stat budget (including expertise) is also beyond me. This entire bolster system is just overly complex for no good reason whatsoever. If you PvP in PvE gear with such a system where every class gets a flat PvP budget in PvE gear, you'd be less effective compared to anyone in any sort of actual PvP gear, but at least it'd weed out the need to understand a needlessly complex system and there'd be the exact same gear progression.

 

But meh... I've given up hope for competitive PvP in this game. If by some miracle it does happen, I'm going to cry rivers of joy.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Defecter

[Evanouss]

Since Mercs are so easily shut down, "They" should have the VG burst and VG's should be more sustained damage.

 

Doesn't matter though, Shoulder cannon is going to get nerfed soon, guarantee it. Too much burst and waay too fast..plus essentially if utilitied can heal them for 35% health in a matter of seconds.

 

and yes, it can be countered....

[Floplag]

While i agree with much of this, the only thing im not with you on is the assertion that Sorcs are second tier in this. Your logic is mostly sound in my opinion, but they are far too easy to do far to well with.

 

Now, the advantage isnt as wide in ranked as there are for the most part smarter players in ranked, however, the ability to heal to full combined with bubbles and non cleansable dots i think puts them a bit ahead of PTs or at least on par.

 

Just my 2 cents, otherwise, well written.

[Ursus-SUON]

SIN > PT > SORC in that order, they all need to be put on the chopping block.

[Floplag]

Since Mercs are so easily shut down, "They" should have the VG burst and VG's should be more sustained damage.

 

Doesn't matter though, Shoulder cannon is going to get nerfed soon, guarantee it. Too much burst and waay too fast..plus essentially if utilitied can heal them for 35% health in a matter of seconds.

 

and yes, it can be countered....

 

 

Yes, Mercs should hit much harder if we are going to be the glass cannon, but we dont. Ive mained a Merc since beta, and i can jump on my PT or Sorc and do more overall damage than i can the Merc with less effort. One could argue this is due to living longer and staying in the fight longer more than a lack of dps, and they would probably be right, but until we have that survivability that is an assumption. We should either hit harder, or have more survivability.. perhaps a little of both.

 

Shoulder cannon is frankly over used as the reason PTs are strong in my opinion. People want to point to this as its off the GCD, but the only reason you are looking at this is that its more obvious. The heal is no different than other classes such as Juggs self heal capabilities and theirs comes with one button for similar results while the PT has to hit 7... both can be used off the GCD. If this is the reason you are losing to a PT, you would die even if they didnt have it in all probability.

[ToMyMa]

Yes, Mercs should hit much harder if we are going to be the glass cannon, but we dont. Ive mained a Merc since beta, and i can jump on my PT or Sorc and do more overall damage than i can the Merc with less effort. One could argue this is due to living longer and staying in the fight longer more than a lack of dps, and they would probably be right, but until we have that survivability that is an assumption. We should either hit harder, or have more survivability.. perhaps a little of both.

 

Shoulder cannon is frankly over used as the reason PTs are strong in my opinion. People want to point to this as its off the GCD, but the only reason you are looking at this is that its more obvious. The heal is no different than other classes such as Juggs self heal capabilities and theirs comes with one button for similar results while the PT has to hit 7... both can be used off the GCD. If this is the reason you are losing to a PT, you would die even if they didnt have it in all probability.

 

Eh, I wouldn't want to give mercs more burst. Have you seen Arsenal burst now? It's absolutely crazy, it's just that mercs lack survivability.

 

(Priming shot-tracer-blazing-heatseeker-rail is incredibly burst in a very short amount of time - from 30 meters)

[ElcorHamlet]

The reason they should listen to the top players is because most people are ignorant and have no idea how the game works. The game could be perfectly balanced and they would still complain because they are bad.

[Insomniaq-]

The reason they should listen to the top players is because most people are ignorant and have no idea how the game works. The game could be perfectly balanced and they would still complain because they are bad.

 

This 100%

[ElcorHamlet]

Also, thanks for writing your book Insomniaq. It actually has correct information so props to you.

[foxmob]

Shoulder cannon is frankly over used as the reason PTs are strong in my opinion. People want to point to this as its off the GCD, but the only reason you are looking at this is that its more obvious.

 

no. SC is an obvious problem. and since every AP uses them all in one great big bukake bang, they make it impossible to measure the class if it were on a reasonable ICD. but you also have to remember that they serve as an emergency med pack 5% x 7 = 35% before bolster/trauma take effect. the end result is the 7 rockets serve as an approximate medpac over the course of ~4s ("passive" [off gcd] and while stunned). so "fixing" SC ICD is a huge change.

 

it's laughable that you could honestly judge how the class would work until that one "little thing" is adjusted. that's the kind of retarded balancing that BW has done in the past (usually with OPs -- luls). and omg -- bubble stun. bubble stun. how on earth did that EVER make it live? entire servers just ground to a standstill while everyone was stunned from the bubbles on everyone else.

Edited January 15, 2015 by foxmob

[Insomniaq-]

Also, thanks for writing your book Insomniaq. It actually has correct information so props to you.

 

Thanks:D

[SOULCASTER]

Solid post jake. Didn't tell me anything I didn't already know of course haha. But it's always good to have some of the more experienced players chiming in here on the pvp forums. I agree with your post 100%.

 

- Cid

Edited January 15, 2015 by SOULCASTER

[ElcorHamlet]

no. SC is an obvious problem. and since every AP uses them all in one great big bukake bang, they make it impossible to measure the class if it were on a reasonable ICD. but you also have to remember that they serve as an emergency med pack 5% x 7 = 35% before bolster/trauma take effect. the end result is the 7 rockets serve as an approximate medpac over the course of ~4s ("passive" [off gcd] and while stunned). so "fixing" SC ICD is a huge change.

 

Thanks for recognizing that the ICD is the issue, and not the fact that it is off the GCD. This is actually the only problem I see with pt's. If the ICD was say, 1.5 seconds, it would severely decrease their burst.

[Evolixe]

Said it in the "seasons of 2015" post too. Same story.

 

 

 

If only they would.. the potential...

[ARockLobzta]

Speak the truth Insomniaq! PREACH IT BROTHA! But in all seriousness, everything he is saying is spot on. Not one person on the Bioware dev team can come close to competing with the top players in the game. Hell, I don't think Bioware even has an employee that can do marginally well in PvP if we look at the past dev streams. Bring in some real players, with real skill. Not these casuals who have fans on the forums.

[sinfulace]

Buff sorcs

[Transcendent]

Eh, I wouldn't want to give mercs more burst.

 

It's nowhere near good enough, you've got sorc bubbles / h2f while running around kiting your arse, sins that just shroud and stun you this and that way and just dps through the kolto.

 

Either way, it's not a pretty picture when a fair share of arsenal dps is simply wasted not killing anything. Also, priming shot, good as it may seem, if it doesn't hit the target it doesn't proc (and yes, it can miss).

[DarthOvertone]

It all boils down to this; They pander to the wishes of the majority. Not the wishes of the minority. And rightly so for any competent business.

 

BW has always targeted the "majority" in its marketing and development efforts...what they termed the "casual" player base. They targeted the casuals from the start and failed miserably. Sure the game is still alive and kicking thanks to the F2P change, and yes, they still target the casuals with their development decisions. However, player base-wise, this community is a shell of what it was at the beginning.

 

The problem for BW is they have a split content format, PvE and PvP. They decided to focus on PvE and are content making $100 million in revenue each year. Instead of going the PvP route of a smarter title like League of Legends that made almost $1 billion in 2014.

 

As a result, all class balance changes first need to pass the endgame PvE test. And in that regard, I think BW did really well. Every AC seems to possess a very effective spec for endgame PvE. I haven't heard of any serious balance issues from that side of the game.

 

Of course, PvP is a very different animal and imbalances abound. I think it would be wise for BW to consult their skilled players in regard to balance changes. These players play ALL PvP formats most of the time, not just Regs like the "majority" whom, if their feedback on this forum is any evidence, are completely clueless about basic game mechanics and class synergies. Listening to the rabble would be the worst thing BW could do.

[ARockLobzta]

Of course, PvP is a very different animal and imbalances abound. I think it would be wise for BW to consult their skilled players in regard to balance changes. These players play ALL PvP formats most of the time, not just Regs like the "majority" whom, if their feedback on this forum is any evidence, are completely clueless about basic game mechanics and class synergies. Listening to the rabble would be the worst thing BW could do.

 

This 100%

[Azurestone]

10/10 A very rare post in pvp forum that makes complete sense. 100% agree. Have my upvote

[Insomniaq-]

Just added to the bottom of the original post:

 

Ideas towards fixing the Overtuned classes (Powertech and Hatred Assassins)

Edited January 16, 2015 by Insomniaq-