Why is an entire broken PVP bracket (30-59) not being fixed?

[Ridickilis]

Isn't it technically the same as in the 10-29 bracket?

 

A level 10 vs a level 25-29 is 90% of the time gonna get destroyed.

 

At least it's easier to level from 10-25 than from 30-45.

 

It's similar, but still different. Most of the issue with 55-59's are players with already min-maxed, near end-game gear. Also getting to use the proc relics when most other's who weren't 55 previously can't use anything similar, isn't helping (I bet this is probably the where most of the problems lay in that bracket). It's a pretty huge difference if one player can proc his mainstat and a power relic against another who has no such relic.

 

10-29 has a bit of a different problem:

 

 

It's not a major issue but I thought I'd point this out somewhere. This looks like the best place.

 

In 10-29 lowbies (yeah I know; "lowbies :rolleyes:") bolstered expertise is kinda borked.

 

You go in as a level 10-11 missing a head, ear, implants and relics you only get 1200 expertise. Once you can afford/get your head, ear and implants you're expertise goes to 1800 (or +150 expertise per slot). If you've been farming alignment and can use the relics too, you'll get your full 2018 (109 expertise per relic).

 

I know they changed this a while ago as a fix to the "naked bolster" (no bolster for a missing slot) but it doesn't seem right that I can get blown up in 3-4 seconds as a level 16-17 but once I hit 20, and got a full boat of gear equipped, I can 1 vs 5 a VS door for a good 30-40 seconds with my 2018 expertise against a bunch of 11-15's that have 1200-1500 expertise.

 

Perhaps they could give out an equipment starter kit when you get your first pvp mission at level 10. Give a lockbox with a level 10 ear, 2x implants and 2 relics; even if it's just a small endurance stat on them. No main stat or other stats, we'd still want the crafted stuff to be more desirable if you can afford them. These would be used as place holder so when they do enter a WZ they can get their full 2018 expertise as a level 11-17. As of now bolster doesn't account for missing items, and that kinda sucks in lowbies.

 

 

But really once you're level 20 and have a alignment of LS/DS 1 (for the relics), you can get your 2018 expertise. In fact it's pretty much fine once you get a head, ear and 2x implants, you'll have a very competitive 1800 expertise. It only sucks when you're level 11-15 because there are no implants (ear too maybe?) even available till level 15. And then, most servers are selling level 15 ear/implants for 20k credits. Old players with rich alts won't have this problem but for a new player, who we encourage to start pvp'ing early rather than at 60, it can be disheartening and leave a bad first impression.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Ridickilis

[Nekrall]

Players with the old pvp gear will eventually level out of the bracket. This is currently the only issue with the bracket, everything else like people saying "levels 55s get more main stat" is simply false, and baseless complaining.

 

Much like these repetitive threads, made by the same person with no understanding of the game.

[Ashanor]

Players with the old pvp gear will eventually level out of the bracket. This is currently the only issue with the bracket, everything else like people saying "levels 55s get more main stat" is simply false, and baseless complaining.

 

Much like these repetitive threads, made by the same person with no understanding of the game.

 

For one, people have posted pictures of the difference. For another, if you don't purchase the expansion you stay perma 55.

[Zoom_VI]

Players with the old pvp gear will eventually level out of the bracket. This is currently the only issue with the bracket, everything else like people saying "levels 55s get more main stat" is simply false, and baseless complaining.

 

Much like these repetitive threads, made by the same person with no understanding of the game.

 

My 41 commando in PvE gear has 33k HP, my merc at 49 in PvE gear had 40k HP.

 

Enough said.

[Malphayden]

For one, people have posted pictures of the difference. For another, if you don't purchase the expansion you stay perma 55.

 

Not to mention those people with several geared alts that will also be making their way from 55 to 60 through that bracket. I remember right after 3.0 people said "just give it a couple weeks and the problem will sort itself out.". It's been over a month and hasn't improved.

[Lhancelot]

Players with the old pvp gear will eventually level out of the bracket. This is currently the only issue with the bracket, everything else like people saying "levels 55s get more main stat" is simply false, and baseless complaining.

 

Much like these repetitive threads, made by the same person with no understanding of the game.

 

Really? Interesting how this entire thread is commented on by people reiterating what my experience has been in mids pvp since 3.0. I guess lots of people except you have no understanding of the game, right?

 

Your explanation of how everything we say is "baseless complaining" really makes you sound like the one with no understanding of the game.

 

Anyone that actually pvps in mids more than 2 matches quickly realizes it's quite broken and 55 lvl pvp gears has nothing to do with the actual problem. You sir, sound ignorant if that's what you think is the only problem present in the mids bracket.

[sanchito]

Not to mention those people with several geared alts that will also be making their way from 55 to 60 through that bracket. I remember right after 3.0 people said "just give it a couple weeks and the problem will sort itself out.". It's been over a month and hasn't improved.

 

nor will it very soon, for example i got 6 of my 16 toons from 55 to 60, and with legacy gear they all have pvp gear. Also the new gear is almost as good as old pvp gear, for some reason you get bolstered to ridiculous stats with the new 178 gear, and the small loss of expertise totally doesn't make up the difference.

 

edit: the loss of expertise does make up the difference compared to the new level 60 pvp gear, but not compared to anything people in lowbies wear.

Edited January 17, 2015 by sanchito

[Nekrall]

Really? Interesting how this entire thread is commented on by people reiterating what my experience has been in mids pvp since 3.0. I guess lots of people except you have no understanding of the game, right?

 

Your explanation of how everything we say is "baseless complaining" really makes you sound like the one with no understanding of the game.

 

Anyone that actually pvps in mids more than 2 matches quickly realizes it's quite broken and 55 lvl pvp gears has nothing to do with the actual problem. You sir, sound ignorant if that's what you think is the only problem present in the mids bracket.

 

Madcuzbad.

 

What is the issue then? They have more abilities because they are higher level? lol.

 

You are continuously making threads about midbie pvp, about an issue that will fix itself. You cannot prove there is another problem than level 55+ players with old pvp gear because there is none.

 

It is the same system in place with the 10-29 bracket. Higher level characters are going to do better than lower level characters. How this idea escapes you is impressive.

[Lhancelot]

Madcuzbad.

 

What is the issue then? They have more abilities because they are higher level? lol.

 

You are continuously making threads about midbie pvp, about an issue that will fix itself. You cannot prove there is another problem than level 55+ players with old pvp gear because there is none.

 

It is the same system in place with the 10-29 bracket. Higher level characters are going to do better than lower level characters. How this idea escapes you is impressive.

 

Hey, you can choose to troll with backhanded insults all you want friend, I know mids is broke, and so does anyone that plays pvp in this tier. I don't have to prove it to you, because, well firstly you are just some anonymous dude on the forums. You are not a dev, you are just some gamer no more important than anyone else who plays the game and posts on these forums. That means our opinions are equally worthy, and that's fine if you think mids are working just fine. Really, it's ok. I know it is not though, and as long as it's broken, I will continue bringing this up. Too bad you rage over threads that differ from your opinion. It's not healthy being so angry I suggest trying to calm down, deep breaths help too.

[Nekrall]

Hey, you can choose to troll with backhanded insults all you want friend, I know mids is broke, and so does anyone that plays pvp in this tier. I don't have to prove it to you, because, well firstly you are just some anonymous dude on the forums. You are not a dev, you are just some gamer no more important than anyone else who plays the game and posts on these forums. That means our opinions are equally worthy, and that's fine if you think mids are working just fine. Really, it's ok. I know it is not though, and as long as it's broken, I will continue bringing this up. Too bad you rage over threads that differ from your opinion. It's not healthy being so angry I suggest trying to calm down, deep breaths help too.

 

Why are mids broken?

Edited January 17, 2015 by Nekrall

[Alphasgimaone]

I think it has something to do with the bolster cap. It seems to me (I can't really remember all that well.) that, in 2.0 rules, the bolster point was set to somewhere around tier 1 (Partisan or whatever it was.) PvP gear, and that the baseline was better than any min/maxed 50-54 gear could hope to be. However, in seems like they didn't raise the new bolster point high enough this time so the baseline falls below min/maxed 55-59 gear. Mainstat seems especially anemic like they only about 5% above the old bolster, where any decent 55+ gear can easily give a 10%+ advantage over the old bolster baseline.

 

If that made any sense at all.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Alphasgimaone

[Nekrall]

I think it has something to do with the bolster cap. It seems to me (I can't really remember all that well.) that, in 2.0 rules, the bolster point was set to somewhere around tier 1 (Partisan or whatever it was.) PvP gear, and that the baseline was better than any min/maxed 50-54 gear could hope to be. However, in seems like they didn't raise the new bolster point high enough this time so the baseline falls below min/maxed 55-59 gear. Mainstat seems especially anemic like they only about 5% above the old bolster, where any decent 55+ gear can easily give a 10%+ advantage over the old bolster baseline.

 

If that made any sense at all.

 

It makes sense, but there have been 3 threads about this and not one screenshot proving it.

 

That is my issue with the threads.

 

If you are going to make a claim that something is broken, you have to prove it, and then present a solution. OP has done the first step, but no the next two. That is why these threads are meaningless.

 

It is like me saying the sky is green with a cult of people who believe it, and expecting everyone to believe it is too without stating why, or how we can make the sky blue again. Creating a problem which very well may not exist.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Nekrall

[Ramtar]

because the developers don't pvp everyday against other players.

[Beakertanks]

It makes sense, but there have been 3 threads about this and not one screenshot proving it.

 

That is my issue with the threads.

 

If you are going to make a claim that something is broken, you have to prove it, and then present a solution. OP has done the first step, but no the next two. That is why these threads are meaningless.

 

It is like me saying the sky is green with a cult of people who believe it, and expecting everyone to believe it is too without stating why, or how we can make the sky blue again. Creating a problem which very well may not exist.

Do you ever do PvP in the mid bracket on a toon between the levels of 30 and 55?

I doubt it.

You are using the same kind of argument the Bolsheviks use. "Everything is fine because things are equal." While you sit in your Dacha on the Volga and sip Stoli and eat Beluga Caviar.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Do you ever do PvP in the mid bracket on a toon between the levels of 30 and 55?

I doubt it.

You are using the same kind of argument the Bolsheviks use. "Everything is fine because things are equal." While you sit in your Dacha on the Volga and sip Stoli and eat Beluga Caviar.

 

You do know George Orwell ? Of that famous book called "1984" ? Everybody should read it.

 

Well, he wrote a little story called "Animal Farm". In it, he wrote down that well-known sentence (quoted from my memory) :

 

"All are equal. But some are more equal than others."

Edited January 17, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Nekrall]

Do you ever do PvP in the mid bracket on a toon between the levels of 30 and 55?

I doubt it.

You are using the same kind of argument the Bolsheviks use. "Everything is fine because things are equal." While you sit in your Dacha on the Volga and sip Stoli and eat Beluga Caviar.

 

I'm asking for evidence for the claim; so far, none has been presented.

 

You're not making any argument, neither is OP.

 

Feels are not reals.

[Beakertanks]

I'm asking for evidence for the claim; so far, none has been presented.

 

You're not making any argument, neither is OP.

 

Feels are not reals.

 

Nice avoiding the question. Perhaps, if you truly sought confirmation, you would record a level 30 dominating in mid bracket. Since you are not willing to do so, you are not contributing to the solution either.

[Beakertanks]

You do know George Orwell ? Of that famous book called "1984" ? Everybody should read it.

 

Well, he wrote a little story called "Animal Farm". In it, he wrote down that well-known sentence (quoted from my memory) :

 

"All are equal. But some are more equal than others."

 

Great line. Love that book. I read it before the wall came down. Wow. I'm old.

[Beakertanks]

It makes sense, but there have been 3 threads about this and not one screenshot proving it.

 

That is my issue with the threads.

 

If you are going to make a claim that something is broken, you have to prove it, and then present a solution. OP has done the first step, but no the next two. That is why these threads are meaningless.

 

It is like me saying the sky is green with a cult of people who believe it, and expecting everyone to believe it is too without stating why, or how we can make the sky blue again. Creating a problem which very well may not exist.

 

The sky is neither green nor blue. It is predominantly nitrogen gas that refracts the "visible light" portion of the electromagnetic spectrum into a frequency that most people lable "blue."

 

I could screenshot it all day, wouldn't change the rightness or wrongness of what color you call that frequency.

 

Would you like me to screenshot my 55 sage in 124s or worse own every toon below level 55 solo? I could, but frankly it is a waste of time. Anybody WHO ACTUALLY PVPS IN THE MID BRACKET KNOWS IT IS EFFING BROKEN. You would have hung out on the deck of the Titanic refusing to board the life boats until somebody provided you a screenshot of the lower decks filling with water. The crew running around saying "

it's sinking" wouldn't have been good enough for you.

[SlightlySychotic]

Would you like me to screenshot my 55 sage in 124s or worse own every toon below level 55 solo? I could, but frankly it is a waste of time. Anybody WHO ACTUALLY PVPS IN THE MID BRACKET KNOWS IT IS EFFING BROKEN. You would have hung out on the deck of the Titanic refusing to board the life boats until somebody provided you a screenshot of the lower decks filling with water. The crew running around saying "

it's sinking" wouldn't have been good enough for you.

 

He's right though. The exact figures would go a long way in helping to fix it from a bug squashing standpoint. The devs need to understand how it's broken (they're probably damn well aware that it's not working right) and empirical data helps resolve that.

[Beakertanks]

He's right though. The exact figures would go a long way in helping to fix it from a bug squashing standpoint. The devs need to understand how it's broken (they're probably damn well aware that it's not working right) and empirical data helps resolve that.

 

Per many earlier dev posts, they have a significantly greater ability to data mine than any player. The purpose of threads like these is not to say "Bolster gives 3.14 times more power to characters between the levels of 55 and 59." Frankly it would be hard for us to empirically prove it as we would have to use identical sets of gear on identical advanced classes on identical servers that are separated by 10 to 20 levels. Something they can far more easily do than any of us. The point is, a level 35 toon never solos a level 56 toon. Ever. Why? I honestly don't know. I honestly don't care. I just know that a warzone is supposed to be fun. And right now, unless you are 55 to 59, warzones are definitely NOT fun in the mid bracket. But, like many, many, many times in the past, the devs are overworked, under-resourced, and frustratingly silent. THAT is the problem. This game takes in millions of dollars a month. People have established a level of expectation that those millions of dollars will go to things outside of designing decorations for the cartel packs. Little things like ensuring a cornerstone of MMORPGs is functioning with some sort of semblance of order and playability.

 

All of that being said, the fundamental problem with PvP in this game is the technical issues with cross server PvP. There simply isn't enough of a player base on a server by server basis to provide the most common sense solutions to the bulk of the pvp woes. They could do a significantly better job of matchmaking if they had the ability to draw upon EVERY pvper when putting people into warzones. Off the top of my head they could do the following:

 

do matchmaking in regs arenas based on role like they do in ranked

do matchmaking based on role in warzones

make valor something that influences matchmaking

break up lowbies into more brackets

make matchmaking in RANKED actually based on you rating.

Make regs, solo ranked, team ranked, and GSF (hey it's pvp dang it) all pop faster

Add ranked GSF

give scrubs a better chance to play against other scrubs so they can LEARN THE DANG GAME WITHOUT DYING EVERY 10 SECONDS

well you get the idea.

 

Why do we not have cross server? Because the Devs say it would require a much too substantial rewrite of fundamental portions of the way the game works.

 

Thus, we will be stuck with real problems in PvP pretty much as long as we play this game. In many ways all of these PvP complaint threads are just an exercise in player vanity. But I AM vain. So I will keep doing it anyway. Who knows? Maybe someday BW will sink the money into giving us cross server queues. I just won't hold my breath.

[Draqsko]

My 41 commando in PvE gear has 33k HP, my merc at 49 in PvE gear had 40k HP.

 

Enough said.

 

Commando doesn't have augment slots installed, merc does, I'm willing to bet.

 

Ran into this same thing on my level 50 sage, 33k hp because no augment slots on any of the gear. All my other characters with gear with augment slots are all roughly 40k hp, regardless of what augment is in the slot.

[Beakertanks]

Commando doesn't have augment slots installed, merc does, I'm willing to bet.

 

Ran into this same thing on my level 50 sage, 33k hp because no augment slots on any of the gear. All my other characters with gear with augment slots are all roughly 40k hp, regardless of what augment is in the slot.

 

what level are your toons with augment slots?

[Icykill_]

Each time you LVL from 55-59 you get more health and other main stats... Just watch your stats go up as you LVL... My classes with full brut gear at 55 went from 35-37k to 40+k as I got to 59... Bolster may be working on "gear"... But I think the issue is the extra stats you get each time you LVL up... Bolster obvioulsy isn't taking those stats into account...

[Draqsko]

what level are your toons with augment slots?

 

52, 57, 59, 60, only the 60 has 186 augs and has over 40k hp, the rest have close to or just over 39k. Some of the slots are even Mk-1s (just wanted to test it out on the 52). The 57 and 59 are using the old blue 28 augments.

 

The broken part of the mid bracket is the fact that gear without augment slots is not being bolstered the same amount as gear with augment slots. Install augment slots and throw crap augments in. That's why it feels like 55-59s have an advantage, they already have augmented gear whereas most of the rest in the bracket don't.

 

Bolster isn't bolstering augments that don't exist, it's only bolstering augments that are there.