lokimogor Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Honsetly anyone harrasing folks about this should have some sort of punishment as well, as harassment is also in the ToS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The reaction of "certain parties" was a direct result of the exploiters trying to blame everyone else for their own mistakes, not wanting to take responsibility for their mistakes and then raising hell on the forums in order to deflect attention elsewhere. Add in posts like yours that bring up crap like the Salem trials and McCarthyism that have zero to do with the fact that exploiters need to be punished to ensure such actions don't happen on this scale again and you can see why the forums have turned toxic. It isn't a witch hunt to want people held responsible for their misdeeds. I disagree. There have been many on these forums calling for "blood" who I'd toss in the Salem trials category. We should all be calling for better quality control, not turning on each other. I know several people who did the exploit, and I have also seen them help many people in the game get through their first raid and giving them advice on how to gear up etc. Not everyone who ran the exploit is evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 not exaggeration, thay didnt put out patches for their mistakes in that 3 weeks, they didnt put out anything....unless they were in a coma, they werent in the office. most people have to either put out quality product or fix their damn mistakes. ignoring them for a month isnt an option for most folks. Doesn't mean the weren't working on patches. Doesn't mean they ignored it. Those are all false conclusions on your side. Should they have planned it better? Yes Should they have fixed it sooner? Yes Should the expansion have had better quality? Yes yes on all that, but not your false conclusions that are just expressions of your frustrations. They knew the exploit was there and released SoR for financial reasons. They didn't want to stop the go-live also probably because that would've created a *****torm of an even larger scale. That's not ignoring that's bad management because they should've been smarter than to release a new expansion so close before Xmas knowing their own limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I disagree. There have been many on these forums calling for "blood" who I'd toss in the Salem trials category. We should all be calling for better quality control, not turning on each other. I know several people who did the exploit, and I have also seen them help many people in the game get through their first raid and giving them advice on how to gear up etc. Not everyone who ran the exploit is evil. Evil had nothing to do with it and very few people are calling for blood. People are calling for proper consequences for exploiters. Talking about quality control is a separate issue. It does not excuse the exploiters for their actions...I don't care how nice they are in real life. I have a couple of guildies that will probably see some action on this, both are nice folks but they screwed up and they know they did and accept it. There needs to be bans, especially for the worst of the exploiters. They don't need to be permanent but they need to happen so that players understand their are consequences for breaking the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Evil had nothing to do with it and very few people are calling for blood. People are calling for proper consequences for exploiters. Talking about quality control is a separate issue. It does not excuse the exploiters for their actions...I don't care how nice they are in real life. I have a couple of guildies that will probably see some action on this, both are nice folks but they screwed up and they know they did and accept it. There needs to be bans, especially for the worst of the exploiters. They don't need to be permanent but they need to happen so that players understand their are consequences for breaking the rules. Bans will hurt the game financially so no, I wouldn't call for that. Just have BioWare take back the gear that was acquired and let it end there. Bans won't kill the game, but it will hurt it IMO. We want more content so that requires $$$$$$$$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 All people at whitch trials were innocent. Exploiters are guilty as hell, also devs can use logs to precisely nail the guilty ones. I hardly see a connection here.apparently you missed wholes sections of this thread where anyone that defended exploiters or even simply refused to want them burned were labelled as exploiters themselves. maxkillroy is right...the game is broken and they are worried about this? something that doesnt affect anyone or gameplay? this is more about people like you that 'want people punished' out of some strange need instead of trying to make the game better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 apparently you missed wholes sections of this thread where anyone that defended exploiters or even simply refused to want them burned were labelled as exploiters themselves. maxkillroy is right...the game is broken and they are worried about this? something that doesnt affect anyone or gameplay? this is more about people like you that 'want people punished' out of some strange need instead of trying to make the game better. I cringe when I think of the manpower and hours figuring out how to deal with the exploiters is taking. I mean, they've already said we're getting more content this year so the more time they waste on this issue is more time they could be spending on what is coming next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokimogor Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Bans will hurt the game financially so no, I wouldn't call for that. Just have BioWare take back the gear that was acquired and let it end there. Bans won't kill the game, but it will hurt it IMO. We want more content so that requires $$$$$$$$$$$ Clawback at this point would be interesting since its been so many weeks and where do you draw the line at the fruit of the initial exploit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The reaction of "certain parties" was a direct result of the exploiters trying to blame everyone else for their own mistakes, not wanting to take responsibility for their mistakes and then raising hell on the forums in order to deflect attention elsewhere. Add in posts like yours that bring up crap like the Salem trials and McCarthyism that have zero to do with the fact that exploiters need to be punished to ensure such actions don't happen on this scale again and you can see why the forums have turned toxic. It isn't a witch hunt to want people held responsible for their misdeeds. You have your causality backwards, not that this is at all surprising. The calls for grossly disproportionate punishments, the insinuations and accusations directed at anyone who so much as dared call for calm, the statements that it would be better to see SWTOR "go down in flames" than allow a single "cheater" to escape, the statements that it would be better to punish the innocent than to let a single "cheater" escape -- in other words, the behavior that's comparable to the behavior during ugly periods of real-life history -- were around long before Eric's ill-conceived post on the matter, almost from the moment that the "exploit" was discovered. Sadly, many of those threads that were posted between SoR launch and Eric's post were deleted because people were "discussing exploits". Some of the factual history still exists, if you can be bothered to go look instead of jumping right back on the "it's all the fault of people who aren't in favor of mass bannings" train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tysu_Lanx Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Lets find out what Bioware decides to do And we're still waiting. It took them weeks to fix a severe bug and it's taking them weeks to announce a decision on what to do about it. No matter where you fall on this issue, it's infuriating how long it's taking for severe game and community problems to be sorted. They need to do whatever they're going to do so we can forget about this toxic topic and move on. Yes the honest people are evil and not those who cheat. The world gets more and more interesting these days There's two different camps. The people who want sensible action are fine. The people who want blanket bans of all offenders are more concerned with schadenfreude than fairness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Doesn't mean the weren't working on patches. Doesn't mean they ignored it. Those are all false conclusions on your side. Should they have planned it better? Yes Should they have fixed it sooner? Yes Should the expansion have had better quality? Yes yes on all that, but not your false conclusions that are just expressions of your frustrations. They knew the exploit was there and released SoR for financial reasons. They didn't want to stop the go-live also probably because that would've created a *****torm of an even larger scale. That's not ignoring that's bad management because they should've been smarter than to release a new expansion so close before Xmas knowing their own limitations. it took 7 weeks to kill the first boss in 16 man sm ravagers and count the drops? really? there is a limit that I can allow for incompetence and have to attribute to "just dont care or did it on purpose" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Bans will hurt the game financially so no, I wouldn't call for that. Just have BioWare take back the gear that was acquired and let it end there. Bans won't kill the game, but it will hurt it IMO. We want more content so that requires $$$$$$$$$$$ they need to have their house in order. when they take back the loot from the exploits they can drop the loot they seem unable to grant for completed ravagers bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 coratanni is still bugged and will reset after phase 1 unless you know how to reset the fight before you pull. this means groups out there have been missing out on loot. how does the ravagers exploit hurt the game again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Honestly, at this point, I don't even care anymore. They have the time and motivation to go seeking out exploiters for punishment after spending 3 years not really caring about exploiters, but they lack the time and motivation to fix lingering bugs in the ONLY CURRENT CONTENT WE HAVE AT THE MOMENT. Sincerely speaking, if this expansion had gone live without all these damned bugs and glitches, and someone had told me about the Ravagers bug, I'd have straight up refused to take part in it and scorned anyone who did take part. But this? After months of people losing out on loot, wiping endlessly on fights because the fight refuses to work the way it's supposed to work? No, I find it hard to scorn people for getting loot through another glitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfer_Infinity Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) So you guys suggest to leave exploiters unpunished? And when newexploits show up then what? I guess everyone from now on should exploit the crap out of every bug, or they will end up being suckers who didn't jump at a chance and got left behind others? Do you really want to play a game where everyone needs to cheat every chance they have or be left behind feeling like a loser? Edited January 25, 2015 by Lucyfer_Infinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 So you guys suggest to leave exploiters unpunished? And when newexploits show up then what? I guess everyone from now on should exploit the crap out of every bug, or they will end up being suckers who didn't jump at a chance and got left behind others? Do you really want to play a game where everyone needs to cheat every chance they have or be left behind feeling like a looser? I suggest that no punishment is better over-reacting by orders of magnitude, better than drag-netting innocent players or those who didn't realize what they were doing out of zeal to get every last person who might have been involved, better than wasting multiple man-months of time on hunting them down, etc. If there were a foolproof way to apply rational consequences in a timely and efficient manner, I'd reconsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 So you guys suggest to leave exploiters unpunished? And when newexploits show up then what? I guess everyone from now on should exploit the crap out of every bug, or they will end up being suckers who didn't jump at a chance and got left behind others? Do you really want to play a game where everyone needs to cheat every chance they have or be left behind feeling like a looser? Instead of suddenly deciding that they now care about exploiting and exploiters after 3 years of ignoring them beyond fixing the glitched content, this is what they need to do: 1) Make a big deal of the current exploit. Explain that their focus of fixing the problems and ignoring the exploiters has created the impression that they don't care about exploiters. Explain that this is a bad impression that they never intended to become widespread. 2) Send out emails to all accounts. Send out in-game mails to all players. In that mail/email, explain that all previous exploiting prior to 3.1(just an example date,) will be forgiven and forgotten, but that all exploiting occurring after 3.1 will be treated as a serious offense and will be punished severely. This way, all players will know of their new stance, all players will start off on the same page, all players will start off with a clean slate and the game itself will start off again with a clean slate. Simply put, you can't spend years ignoring exploiters and then suddenly decide that it's a big deal worthy of punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) So you guys suggest to leave exploiters unpunished? And when newexploits show up then what? I guess everyone from now on should exploit the crap out of every bug, or they will end up being suckers who didn't jump at a chance and got left behind others? Do you really want to play a game where everyone needs to cheat every chance they have or be left behind feeling like a looser?i really dont care what happens to them. i care about my enjoyment of the game. and what other characters wear, especially pve gear, has not affect on my gaming experience. when new exploits show up, i expect people to take advantage of it. whst i also expect is for bioware to react promptly to it according to its nature. all other exploiters...ie nefra...werent punished at all. bioware cant simultaneously treat this as the most horrible, egregious exploit ever and take no action in 3 weeks to resolve it or prevent it. these two notions are diametrically opposed. what i expect, is for bioware to improve the game and spend time fixed the massive defects that ARE affecting my gameplay experience...not waste time on pointless, irrelevant stuff like this. but good to see youre willing to admit that your need to punish people is fueled by your fear in being left behind...like ive said all along this righteous indignation is all sour grapes. Edited January 25, 2015 by Pagy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfer_Infinity Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 i really dont care what happens to them. i care about my enjoyment of the game. and what other characters wear, especially pve gear, has not affect on my gaming experience. when new exploits show up, i expect people to take advantage of it. whst i also expect is for bioware to react promptly to it according to its nature. all other exploiters...ie nefra...werent punished at all. bioware cant simultaneously treat this as the most horrible, egregious exploit ever and take no action in 3 weeks to resolve it or prevent it. these two notions are diametrically opposed. what i expect, is for bioware to improve the game and spend time fixed the massive defects that ARE affecting my gameplay experience...not waste time on pointless, irrelevant stuff like this. but good to see youre willing to admit that your need to punish people is fueled by your fear in being left behind...like ive said all along this righteous indignation is all sour grapes. While i cant speak for others i can admit i wish for exploiters to be punished because as things are now i feel like a sucker. We all agreed to TOS, while most of us abide by it some broke the deal and as it is right now they got rewarded while they should have goten punished. If they remain unpunished you can bet next exploit to come i'll be out there on the front lines holding hands with other exploiters claiming my rewards. It would be foolish to remain honest in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 So you guys suggest to leave exploiters unpunished? And when newexploits show up then what? I guess everyone from now on should exploit the crap out of every bug, or they will end up being suckers who didn't jump at a chance and got left behind others? Do you really want to play a game where everyone needs to cheat every chance they have or be left behind feeling like a loser? We suggest that they fix the bugs before exploits show up and not put out a patches before they take a bloody month vacation. Because some of us feel they should just let this one go with light punishment and move on. Put warnings out about any further exploiting will be dealt with harshly in all game play and do so. While there at it put out a bigger warning to those that want to harass other over doing the exploit and witch hunt over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istanu Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 So after reading all the posts about this topic for weeks now i still don't get why people are upset about this? Who cares that some one got a item from a operation boss 3 weeks ago in stead of next week or next month. it was a item that that they where going to get at some point anyway. And even with all these people with all this top level gear running around, most of them cant do the basic mechanics of the bosses anyway. so what difference does it make? This is also something Bioware should not be wasting time on with all the other issues that are still in this game after 3 years. It is obvious that they (Bioware) have a limited amount of time, money, skill and resources to devote to this game, and those resources would be better spent fixing all the other issues. You know like actually making the operation complete-able with out having to reset it 6 times because the boss bugged out. Who care's that some one RE's a hilt or a mod to sell on the GTN. It was going to happen anyway, whats the difference if it was Person B instead of person A or Person C. it was going to happen. And to all those who are upset about it i have some news for you Exploiting a situation for your person gain or advantage is kinda how the world works, weather its in business, sports, love or life we as humans do it all the time. Its how Companies become #1 and drive out the competition. its how Teams Win there championships and its how you win the girl, by exploiting the situation to your advantage. And in the real word when a exploit becomes detrimental to a industry or society, it is corrected with laws BUT we do not make ex post facto laws. We say congrats you took advantage of the situation that was a smart business move or nice way to use the situation in the game to win,way to go but now you cant do it any more and we move on. So in short its time for the community to, Man up, Suit up, Shut up and move along. because there are more important issues at hand in this game Thank you for reading, and thank you for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Instead of suddenly deciding that they now care about exploiting and exploiters after 3 years of ignoring them beyond fixing the glitched content, this is what they need to do: 1) Make a big deal of the current exploit. Explain that their focus of fixing the problems and ignoring the exploiters has created the impression that they don't care about exploiters. Explain that this is a bad impression that they never intended to become widespread. 2) Send out emails to all accounts. Send out in-game mails to all players. In that mail/email, explain that all previous exploiting prior to 3.1(just an example date,) will be forgiven and forgotten, but that all exploiting occurring after 3.1 will be treated as a serious offense and will be punished severely. This way, all players will know of their new stance, all players will start off on the same page, all players will start off with a clean slate and the game itself will start off again with a clean slate. Simply put, you can't spend years ignoring exploiters and then suddenly decide that it's a big deal worthy of punishment. Have to agree with one exception to this all gear that was gained and crafting schematic be removed from said players. That in it self should be enough to wake those that did up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfer_Infinity Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 We suggest that they fix the bugs before exploits show up and not put out a patches before they take a bloody month vacation. Because some of us feel they should just let this one go with light punishment and move on. Put warnings out about any further exploiting will be dealt with harshly in all game play and do so. While there at it put out a bigger warning to those that want to harass other over doing the exploit and witch hunt over this. It wouldn't be fair. Exploiters would still have their gear and credits while normal players would remain suckers It's easy to ask for blank slate while being ahead of others I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fushnchips Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It wouldn't be fair. Exploiters would still have their gear and credits while normal players would remain suckers It's easy to ask for blank slate while being ahead of others I guess. cry cry cry get over it I am sick of seeing posters like you complaining about something that is actually non of your business. If you didn't exploit then move on and be happy and if you did wait for biowares action so it's that simple now go away and stop being a pest and pouring fuel on the fire and yes you are worse than anyone who exploited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfer_Infinity Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 cry cry cry get over it I am sick of seeing posters like you complaining about something that is actually non of your business. If you didn't exploit then move on and be happy and if you did wait for biowares action so it's that simple now go away and stop being a pest and pouring fuel on the fire and yes you are worse than anyone who exploited. The moment you start paying my bills, you can try to order me around. But as it is i'll keep having my fun and keep the fire burning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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