Grayseven Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Crap, I didn't even think to put bestia lity on my bingo card... Your loss. At 122+ pages, everyone probably has Bingo now anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) does it not make sense that in all probability they exploited in this case? No it does not make sense because they allow people to exploit else were with no punishment. That's the hole point it makes no sense to punish some one for stealing yet allow the police to walk in and steal what every they want. Either all area's need to have punishment for exploiting or none do, You cant have a double standard. Edited January 15, 2015 by Neoforcer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Crap, I didn't even think to put bestia lity on my bingo card... Just when I thought we hit the bottom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spamfritter Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 What BW should do is issue and apology to all players and a warning that from now on any use of in game mechanics to exploit in any area pvp or pve will constitute in punishment. Weather it be a ravagers exploit or win trading, speed hacking any thing along those lines. Because right now BW looks like fools for making a post on punishment and allowing the other exploiting to go on with no punishment. This. Given that BioWare has absolutely ZERO history of punishing exploits of this nature this is probably the best course of action. Let everyone move on with the understanding that future exploitation of this nature will not be tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 No it does not make sense because they allow people to exploit else were with no punishment. That's the hole point it makes no sense to punish some one for stealing yet allow the police to walk in and steal what every they want. Either all area's need to have punishment for exploiting or none do you cant have a double standard. I don't disagree with this. Exploiting the game in any way should be punished. Thing is, people seem to believe that no other exploiters have been punished, and this is not the case. Because EA/BW (or any MMO company for that matter) does not discuss actions taken on accounts, the only way to know if action has been taken is to know someone who was actioned. An acquaintance of mine was given a ban. He has a nasty habit of using hacks in PvP in many, many different games. He also buys credits from farmers. I have no idea what he was banned for, just that he was banned and was heading back to WoW. So we don't really know if other exploits are being actioned or not. Unless you are exploiting or know FOR A FACT that people are exploiting and still at it, then what we have is nothing more than claims that actions aren't being taken on other exploits. Take PvP win trading. How can you know, for a fact, that this is happening? I'm not saying that it isn't happening, but how do you know it is? Because someone in fleet chat said it is? Because a supposed PvE guild is on the top of the leader board when they just might have some really good PvP players in their guild as well? Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter what was done to "other people". That defense won't work, because this isn't about other people or other exploits but about this exploit and the people who did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Ya know what's funny? I had a bet with myself as to which person would go the ignorant route and take that very part out of context. I won. It's good to know that I have a firm handle on the exploiters in this thread who will say anything to justify themselves.when have i tried to "justify" anything? exploiting was wrong, against the ToS, etc etc etc. there, happy? I'm betting that in real life, you expend more effort at looking like you are doing your job and shifting blame onto your co-workers than you do actually doing your job. I have to work with people like you and it's funny when I and others get promoted past them as the sit idly in the same position for years and wonder why.this is exhausting. the way i behave in a videogame is not how i am in real life. sorry. a video game is an opportunity to mess around and have fun. if i want to kill orphans i can, if i want to pick flowers i can. if i want to shoot terrorists i can. would i do any of these things in real life, of course not. for work, i've been very successful, not that saying it here would mean anything, i can say anything i want. im the guy people go to for help, as a sr. pm ive gone to bat for people and protected people. i've fought for their bonuses and promotions. if video games are so serious to you that you cant separate them from real life, then i really feel sorry for you. i'm not sure what kind of odd, twisted world you were brought up in but your social skills and perception of reality needs work. If you take my statement in context like anyone with common sense would, then you'd understand that anyone who would cheat in a fake game world will cheat anywhere. Since you don't really kill anyone in a video game, but you can really cheat, this makes sense. But good luck with your campaign to paint exploiters as the victims. Rebutting your asinine claims breaks up an otherwise boring day.i used cheat codes in doom, nintendo games...i've cheated a ton in games. there's no consequence, there's no "wrong" because i'm not harming anyone. it's a video game. another sad poster insinuating that if you're not a witch burning moral poilce bandwagoner, youre painting exploiters as "victims". sad sad guy. anyway, like i said, you're exhausting and wont be reading your posts anymore. i think i'd rather explain general relativity to my goldfish. Edited January 16, 2015 by Pagy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Really? That's funny. Tell me, if someone shows up on a street corner daily with a loudspeaker and a soapbox and starts saying "If they start arresting people for having carnal knowledge of animals, I'm going to quit my job"...would you suspect that they might have had carnal knowledge of an animal? No. If someone repeatedly showed up in courtrooms and tried to keep the accused of being convicted, would you suspect that they were a criminal? If someone said "I don't think it's fair to judge whether someone's a witch based on whether they float or sink," would you suspect them of being a witch? If someone volunteered their time to defend the rights of homosexuals, would you assume that they're a homosexual? So many howling for "justice" in these threads who have no idea what the word means... Edited January 16, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) No. If someone repeatedly showed up in courtrooms and tried to keep the accused of being convicted, would you suspect that they were a criminal? If someone said "I don't think it's fair to judge whether someone's a witch based on whether they float or sink," would you suspect them of being a witch? If someone volunteered their time to defend the rights of homosexuals, would you assume that they're a homosexual? So many howling for "justice" in these threads who have no idea what the word means...its a "jump to conclusions" mat! Edited January 16, 2015 by Pagy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 its a "jump to conclusions" mat! Just remember, if you hang in there long enough, good things can happen in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairieprof Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 This action update has divided the user community. After reading this thread it made me think of the following movie script lines from Crimson Tide. Admiral Anderson: Stand there, Lt Cdr Hunter, this won't take long. This panel has convened in order to investigate the events subsequent to the setting of condition 1SQ for strategic missile launch aboard the USS Alabama on 1 November. Now based on the testimony of personnel onboard the Alabama and in no small measure to that of the senior officer, Captain Ramsey, I'm prepared to make my recommendations to SUBPAC. LCdr Hunter: Without my testimony, sir? Anderson: You have a problem with that? Hunter: I might, sir. Anderson: I have known Capt Ramsey for almost 30 years. We've served together on more than a few occasions. If he is lying, this will be the first I've heard of it. Hunter: Yes, sir. Anderson: My primary concern here is the breakdown in the system. In this instance, the system failed because the two senior officers did not work to resolve their differences while preserving the chain of command. Now you may have been proved right Mr Hunter, but in so far as the letter of the law is concerned, you were both right - and you were also both wrong. This is the dilemma that will occupy this panel, this Navy, and this country's armed forces as a whole long after you leave this room. Off the record, you've both created one hell of a mess. A mutiny aboard a United States nuclear submarine. Violation of nuclear launch protocol. For the record, it is the conclusion of this panel that your actions aboard the Alabama were consistent with the best traditions of the Navy and in the interests of the United States. As such, the recommendations of this panel will be to accept, in a manner reflective of his long and dedicated service to his country, Captain Ramsey's request for early retirement from active duty and, based in no small part on Captain Ramsey's recommendation, that Lt Cdr Hunter be given his next command at the earliest possible convenience. Unless of course, you wish to challenge this recommendations. Hunter: No, sir. Anderson: Captain Ramsey? Capt Ramsey: No, sir. Anderson: Dismissed. Instead of having this battle between users and between BioWare and their user community, may I suggest a more simple solution. Send out that gear via in game mail to all players as a base model set. Then simply raise the stats on everything else. Could likely write a quick script to make those changes. No nuclear war necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 No. If someone repeatedly showed up in courtrooms and tried to keep the accused of being convicted, would you suspect that they were a criminal? I'd suspect they were a lawyer. If someone said "I don't think it's fair to judge whether someone's a witch based on whether they float or sink," would you suspect them of being a witch? I'd suspect them of having common sense. If someone volunteered their time to defend the rights of homosexuals, would you assume that they're a homosexual? I'd suspect they are enlightened. So many howling for "justice" in these threads who have no idea what the word means... So many defending exploiters in this game and calling anyone who disagrees with them witch-hunters. No one is "howling for justice". I think that perhaps what has happened is that people are simply tired of cheaters trying to justify their cheating instead of just taking their punishment like an adult. It isn't anyone's fault but the cheater for cheating and then getting caught. Who knows, this exploit might not have had any affect on me personally since I tend to be unlucky when it comes to RE'ing drops to learn schematics and since our guild didn't partake in the exploit my spot in raids won't be taken by someone with better gear they gained through exploiting. Heck, I may not have missed out on buying something rare and expensive off the GTN because someone with more credits earned by exploiting beat me to it. I'll never know. What I do know is that cheating is wrong and that if you get caught doing something wrong you get punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 This is beginning to remind me of the AC change debate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_Sin Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 That like saying Obama exploited ravagers with no basis in fact. Some don't agree because we see the hypocrisy on one issue and not on another issue of = value to some players. YES YES YES!! I was waiting for Obama to be brought up! Why did it take 100+ pages? You guys are slipping. I am still kinda said that no one specifically mentioned the Republican or Democrat parties. The night is still young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) YES YES YES!! I was waiting for Obama to be brought up! Why did it take 100+ pages? You guys are slipping. I am still kinda said that no one specifically mentioned the Republican or Democrat parties. The night is still young. Few pages back: its like yankees vs red sox, democrat vs republican all the time with you. with you or against you. it's friggin exhausting. Edited January 16, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I'd suspect they were a lawyer. I'd suspect them of having common sense. I'd suspect they are enlightened. So many defending exploiters in this game and calling anyone who disagrees with them witch-hunters. So you can't see the parallels between those situations, and the way you keep asserting or implying that anyone who considers all of this a gross over-reaction to a largely harmless act must be "one of the cheaters", and how differing opinions on what constitutes cheating in this case or what constitutes an appropriate reaction is "defending the cheaters". And that's what makes you a "witch-hunter", not just because you don't like people who "defend the witches", er, I mean "cheaters". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 i really dont care what gear people have. i really dont care if they exploit at all. it doesnt affect me at all. furthermore there are pvp exploiters right now that DO affect me. Refer my link above then. Maybe you can start getting the debate going in the topic the BW guy Alex posted about, draw some attention to it. It's not going to happen in a PVE thread where it seems like people only bring it up to draw attention away from the actions of some in the PVE exploit. So far 1 other person has commented on it and that was because he assumedly read my post here. All the other PVP people seem to be ignoring and talking balance. The topic is about season 4 not solely balance so a big want for season 4 should be no cheats right? In the end if even the PVP people won't do much to start a ruck *** about the PVP issue and prefer to debate balance as the more contentious issue it's no wonder it's not getting fixed and really has no place being brought up in this thread for this exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Kinda like the win traders/exploiters keeping there pvp gear and not getting punished? If BW want to be fair be fair for all not just pve The funny thign there is I've not yet see anyone disagree with the PVP point so it's kind of pointless bringing it up against us. We ( I ) believe people should get punished for this exploit as they've been caught. I also, like you, believe BW need to do the same for PVP. HOWEVER just because BW AREN'T or WON'T ( I don't know which ) do anything about the PVP issue I do not believe that is a reason or defence for them not to do anything to the players of this exploit. That debate is between you and BW imo and I'm even trying to push it and I don't even play PVP, I just agree in being fair and that those cheaters should be dealt with also ( funny how it took a non PVP players to raise in the PVP thread yet he then get's ignored by the majority of PVP players even though it's supposedly such a big deal ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayris Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) First of all if they do punish anyone, they are all a bunch of hypocrites ! They have no leg to stand on as they did not punish anyone for the Nefra NiM exploit that was going around the last time..... But that's life... **** runs down hill. Peeps at the top ( Bioware ) can punish people for their own negligence and incompetence. They knew about this exploit way back during the PTS and consciously CHOSE to do nothing and launch a broken product anyway. Seriously what did you think was going to happen? You can quote or site the Code of Conduct or Terms of Use all you want. At the end of the day it's your fault. You perpetuated the problem by not only letting it happen, but by not fixing it immediately. What or how much responsibility do think Bioware is going to shoulder on this? I know....NONE Any action against the people who pay to play will be financially prohibitive for Bioware. I know a lot of people who play the game and that did the exploit.. If any action is taken they will stop paying the REAL money for cartel coins etc... I will for sure. Maybe I will join the Free To Play cry babies that are the one whining cause they could not do the exploit in the first place. Cause if they could have they would have.........It's human nature at it's best. Using the exploit is not CHEATING...... Cheating is when you take something and make it do something it was not designed to do. This is not the case here, The game was programmed to do this......Programmed incorrectly yes. But who's fault is that... Edited January 16, 2015 by Jayris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I was referring to the repeated calls that have been made by more than one person to remove ALL the "tainted" gear, credits, mats, learned schematics, everything -- they don't mean just in the inventories of the actual "exploiters", they mean ALL of it, EVERYWHERE, on EVERY character, no matter how it got there. Or that's how you interpret it? Please show me these repeated calls? The serious ones of course, not the sarcastic ones. I've called for removal myself but certainly not for anyone who has purchased gear if they themselves never did anything wrong - they didn't participate in the exploit after all so they just may get a bit of a boon whilst the cheater will hopefully lose the credits from it. So please before you keep twisting our words around and calling us names ... provide some of these examples? There must be SOOO many for you to lump everyone in the same boat after all. So you should havep lenty of examples of people unfairly calling for people who "bought" gear from tainted schems to have that removed too right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROGERMNF Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) if video games are so serious to you that you cant separate them from real life, then i really feel sorry for you. i'm not sure what kind of odd, twisted world you were brought up in but your social skills and perception of reality needs work. :jawa_biggrin: Just a coment: why this race of ppl self-named "Gamers" (What a beautifull word) always needs to use "real" when they are talking about life? :jawa_confused:: Edited January 16, 2015 by ROGERMNF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Just a wild thought: Do you ever wonder if other people (not SWTOR players) have got a bag/box of popcorn related to these threads? I wonder if these recently related threads are part of an office pool somewhere. Kinda do, when I play catch up and there are 10-30 pages to read I certainly don't intend on replying to anything beyond the last few but I read them for entertainment all the same then get to the end and return the favour to others by participating myself. Funnier still if it ended up on IGN like that destiny loot cave bug did ( was it Destiny? ) As to your PVP points, will be interesting to see if my post remains. It's fairly civil and is a fair question so for them to remove it pretty much would say they are in favour of win trading cheaters. If that's the case I'm glad I'm not part of the PVP community if that's how little the managers/devs of that community think of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 What BW should do is issue and apology to all players and a warning that from now on any use of in game mechanics to exploit in any area pvp or pve will constitute in punishment. Weather it be a ravagers exploit or win trading, speed hacking any thing along those lines. Because right now BW looks like fools for making a post on punishment and allowing the other exploiting to go on with no punishment. I wouldn't be annoyed by that at all ... As long as the gear is removed ( the can keep the shells I suppose ). No punishment that way. Oh and we get to sacrifice their first born child on it's 10th birthday! Got to keep in role after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Crap, I didn't even think to put bestia lity on my bingo card... *Adds a cross to his card* Sucks to be you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Thing is, people seem to believe that no other exploiters have been punished, and this is not the case. Because EA/BW (or any MMO company for that matter) does not discuss actions taken on accounts, the only way to know if action has been taken is to know someone who was actioned. Or even chat abuse. Someone pissed me off rather too much one day and I decided to let rip a little too much with little self control and had a nice email a couple of days later. Suffice to say I'm much more cautious in my chat approach these days as I don't want to get banned. The MUST thing I want to see is the gear removed. Plain and simple. People who bought it off GTN well unless they too cheated then I have no major problem if they keep it, not much can be done and they after all never intentionally intended to buy cheated gear most likely. As for punishment I would like to see this also. I won't quit if it doesn't occur or anything silly like that however. I think graduated punishment to the level of offending in terms of suspensions works best. I won't go into tiers as I'm not certian beyond 1-2 times should get a warning and those that sold it, spread it and discovered it and sent it out should receive a perm ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Or that's how you interpret it? Please show me these repeated calls? The serious ones of course, not the sarcastic ones. I've called for removal myself but certainly not for anyone who has purchased gear if they themselves never did anything wrong - they didn't participate in the exploit after all so they just may get a bit of a boon whilst the cheater will hopefully lose the credits from it. So please before you keep twisting our words around and calling us names ... provide some of these examples? There must be SOOO many for you to lump everyone in the same boat after all. So you should havep lenty of examples of people unfairly calling for people who "bought" gear from tainted schems to have that removed too right? Sorry you missed them, most if not all of those threads were deleted before Eric's big announcement, before the mods gave up and just let this stuff fester. I guess this is where you call me a liar, or whatever. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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