BuriDogshin Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 and i'd love to read this nda if it isnt timebound, would be likely unenforceable. Please do not provide uninformed conclusions on complex contract law issues to the forums. You are not doing anyone any favors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 How did you conclude that? What is the source of your data on raider spending? Superdata Research Newzoo The Daedalus Project Popular research blog Ive posted snippets from the reports many times in this forum. It is not as if this is unknown or new information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 i see lord artemis is back to making his arbitrary unsupported claims about "raiders" and revenue again. too funny What have I told you about the word "arbitrary" Pagy? And the whole "throwing stones" thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcolapat Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) How did you conclude that? What is the source of your data on raider spending? He got it out of thin air. Look, to know how much a raider spends on this game all you have to do is look at what BioWare spends most of their time developing. Raiding content. That is because raiders spend a lot of money in this game. You don't need any more data than that. It is obvious. Edited January 19, 2015 by Pcolapat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 What have I told you about the word "arbitrary" Pagy? And the whole "throwing stones" thing? I think your data is about as relevant as the quarterly reports for McDonalds and Burger King when it comes to this game. This is not your typical MMO and many who play SWTOR don't play other MMO's so the data you keep posting is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Please do not provide uninformed conclusions on complex contract law issues to the forums. You are not doing anyone any favors.you're right the countless ndas i've written and signed over the last 15 years in my professional career are apparently meaningless thanks for setting me straight, tips LOL i said i wanted to read it, sort of the first step before making the conclusions but apparently you know everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Do you enjoy just making up data for this game? You read reports on other MMO's and assume that they apply to this game. Do you know how many ppl play this game who never play other MMO's? Stop assuming that only 4 ppl per server raid. Are you trying to claim that the sources I post are fallacious in some way? Or are you claiming that their conclusions are so? Also, I am pretty sure that your contentions about my assumptions are a bit exaggerated for dramatic effect, not to mention grossly inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 He got it out of thin air. Look, to know how much a raider spends on this game all you have to do is look at what BioWare spends most of their time developing. Raiding content. That is because raiders spend a lot of money in this game. You don't need any more data than that. It is obvious. Wrong. Read it yourself and THEN draw your own conclusions. Of course you could simply choose to continue to spout hyperbole if you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fushnchips Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Are you trying to claim that the sources I post are fallacious in some way? Or are you claiming that their conclusions are so? Also, I am pretty sure that your contentions about my assumptions are a bit exaggerated for dramatic effect, not to mention grossly inaccurate. the RP is real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I think your data is about as relevant as the quarterly reports for McDonalds and Burger King when it comes to this game. This is not your typical MMO and many who play SWTOR don't play other MMO's so the data you keep posting is irrelevant. A fair point. As I have conceded in the past and will do so again, this game could very well break the mold, so to speak, and has even provided some proof to that possibility. Most of the studies in the industry clearly conclude that F2P/Freemium/Preferred type players spent the vast majority of revenue on an MMO. This game VERY CLEARLY does not fit that mold by Bioware's own admission. They clearly stated that subscribers spend the most. That is a reasonable point to conclude that standard industry studies do not apply IMO. So I agree, you could dismiss the findings and the points I make for that reason, and I would accept that....I would have to if I claim to be fair in my logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 For this game, perhaps. That contention could be made and i would not deny that. For the overall market, not so much. Superdata Research Newzoo The Daedalus Project Popular research blog You are welcome to read the studies and reports yourself and draw your own conclusions. I often do not agree with every conclusion they reach. I also highly recommend you attend the LOGIN conference if you can. Some great information related to market studies and gaming habits/target demographics and development.citations 101: link to the study, not the publisher. this is akin to making a claim about biology then linking to http://www.nature.com/ also, what research has been done on swtor, since, i dunno, that's sort of the topic at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcolapat Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Wrong. Read it yourself and THEN draw your own conclusions. Of course you could simply choose to continue to spout hyperbole if you wish. I am pointing to evidence and you are making things up out of thin air. Show me some evidence for your claims and then we can have a real debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) I am pointing to evidence and you are making things up out of thin air. Show me some evidence for your claims and then we can have a real debate. I did. You are free to read it yourself. Edited January 19, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) citations 101: link to the study, not the publisher. this is akin to making a claim about biology then linking to http://www.nature.com/ also, what research has been done on swtor, since, i dunno, that's sort of the topic at hand. There is no need to once again post the myriad bits of information that has not only been posted by myself but MANY others in this forum...not just from these sites, but also from sites that REPORTED the information, like Massively for instance. This is not new information. You are welcome to read the studies yourself. And draw your own conclusions, which many folks have done, even in opposition to mine. I am not going to promote or defend their conclusions. I was not the author, nor was I involved in the actual studies. We use two of the companies listed at work, and I have subscriptions to some of the information. Feel free to peruse it yourself as others have done. Then you can form your own INFORMED opinions on the matter. Instead of....arbitrary....conclusions. Edited January 19, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 There is no need to once again post the myriad of information that has not only been posted by myself but MANY others in this forum.lol ok i'll take your word for it then...lol i should have tried that one in school. i don't need to provide support because i did it last year You are welcome to read the studies yourself. And draw your own conclusions, which many folks have done, even in opposition to mine.provide links Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 lol ok i'll take your word for it then...lol i should have tried that one in school. i don't need to provide support because i did it last year provide links You are deflecting. If you use this forum you have the ability to read. So do so. Educate yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcolapat Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I did. You are free to read it yourself. The reality of this game does not support your conclusions. The vast majority of the end game content being produced caters to subscribers. There is casual content and piecemeal content that you can purchase from the CM, but that content is also purchased by subscribers. You are making an old argument. One that has long been debunked. People said when F2P first started trending that subscriptions would eventually go away. They were wrong then and wrong now. The highest grossing MMOs on the market have the most subscribers. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) The reality of this game does not support your conclusions. The vast majority of the end game content being produced caters to subscribers. There is casual content and piecemeal content that you can purchase from the CM, but that content is also purchased by subscribers. You are making an old argument. One that has long been debunked. People said when F2P first started trending that subscriptions would eventually go away. They were wrong then and wrong now. The highest grossing MMOs on the market have the most subscribers. Period. Well, to your last point, it all depends on how you define MMO and which market your talking about. If you mean traditional eastern market MMOs, sure. If you include the western market however, Dungeon Fighter Online surpasses WoW, and if you include MOBAs Then League of Legends is the overall winner by far, and both games are F2P. They are the highest grossing games, by a wide margin with respect to LoL. But I would point out that I already posted this comment earlier in the thread.... A fair point. As I have conceded in the past and will do so again, this game could very well break the mold, so to speak, and has even provided some proof to that possibility. Most of the studies in the industry clearly conclude that F2P/Freemium/Preferred type players spent the vast majority of revenue on an MMO. This game VERY CLEARLY does not fit that mold by Bioware's own admission. They clearly stated that subscribers spend the most. That is a reasonable point to conclude that standard industry studies do not apply IMO. So I agree, you could dismiss the findings and the points I make for that reason, and I would accept that....I would have to if I claim to be fair in my logic. Edited January 19, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcolapat Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) But I am not talking about those games though, I am talking about traditional MMOs in this market. You can redirect the argument all you want to make your points, but if you remain on point you can't make the argument. SWTOR does not directly compete with those games. Edited January 19, 2015 by Pcolapat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 You are deflecting. If you use this forum you have the ability to read. So do so. Educate yourself.i'm the one deflecting? roflmao provide links to actual studies or stop making wild, unsupported claims. this is akin to making a claim about biology then linking to http://www.nature.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) But I am not talking about those games though, I am talking about traditional MMOs. You can redirect the argument all you want to make your points, but if you remain on point you can't make the argument. Redirect? I'm doing nothing of the sort, and you seem to be combative for the sake of argument. If your talking about traditional MMOs you may want to be clear about that next time and perhaps there will not be any confusion. I don't need to play games to make a point, to defend a point, or to give any of my points validity. There are certain absolute and undeniable facts you that have no choice but to accept, PERIOD. 1) My opinion means nothing. My conclusions could be and often have been wrong. 2) My opinion does not represent some kind of threat. 3) Regardless of ANY studies conducted on the market overall there is no way for anyone to conclusively state that any study conclusions apply to this game. 4) Often the studies do not agree with each other on important points. 5) Often the studies use their own criteria to define casual, hardcore, raider, pvp and the like, making it more difficult to come to a consensus. 6) Bioware has released little to no information to the public with respect to the demographics for this game. That is absolute fact. Not supposition, assumption, conjecture, speculation, cold hard facts. I dare anyone to dispute any of those points. Edited January 19, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) i'm the one deflecting? roflmao provide links to actual studies or stop making wild, unsupported claims. this is akin to making a claim about biology then linking to http://www.nature.com/ No, this is akin to you demanding a link to a paper that explains that water is wet. I am not an idiot. But let me give you some indisputable facts as well. And no, you will not be provided "links" to prove these facts. They are beyond reproach. You have no choice but to accept them, period. 1) My opinion means nothing. My conclusions could be and often have been wrong. 2) My opinion does not represent some kind of threat. 3) Regardless of ANY studies conducted on the market overall there is no way for anyone to conclusively state that any study conclusions apply to this game. 4) Often the studies do not agree with each other on important points. 5) Often the studies use their own criteria to define casual, hardcore, raider, pvp and the like, making it more difficult to come to a consensus. 6) Bioware has released little to no information to the public with respect to the demographics for this game. Now, you WILL accept that. You have no choice in the matter. Edited January 19, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fushnchips Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Redirect? I'm doing nothing of the sort, and you seem to be combative for the sake of argument. If your talking about traditional MMOs you may want to be clear about that next time and perhaps there will not be any confusion. I don't need to play games to make a point, to defend a point, or to give any of my points validity. There are certain absolute and undeniable facts you that have no choice but to accept, PERIOD. 1) My opinion means nothing. My conclusions could be and often have been wrong. 2) My opinion does not represent some kind of threat. 3) Regardless of ANY studies conducted on the market overall there is no way for anyone to conclusively state that any study conclusions apply to this game. 4) Often the studies do not agree with each other on important points. 5) Often the studies use their own criteria to define casual, hardcore, raider, pvp and the like, making it more difficult to come to a consensus. 6) Bioware has released little to no information to the public with respect to the demographics for this game. That is absolute fact. Not supposition, assumption, conjecture, speculation, cold hard facts. I dare anyone to dispute any of those points. The RP is real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hey, just wanna mention that you guys might wanna take it to PMs...you're a bit off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcolapat Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 So you are basically saying that you don't know what you are talking about, which is what I have been telling you all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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