Ravagers Exploit Action Update

[deezOneTenTen]

You, Being the good little care bear will not hear about it, i Don't think Bioware is into feeding the mob their pound of flesh they typically have handled actions privately, although this initial posting leads people to think otherwise there will not be a public shaming of accounts to please the rabid dogs, go on to another thread and whine about some other "game breaking" subject that offends your delicate sensibilities.

 

You misunderstand.

 

The "good little care bears", "witch hunters", "torch and pitchfork mob" and etc people arent looking to see WHO got punished. Merely THAT somebody was punished. Its easy to say, "We'll handled effected accounts accordingly" and then do nothing at all. Companies lose face and customers lose faith when that happens. And it happens quite often specially with EA. Many people already lost faith in this company and this little event is making them perk their ears and they are watching for any kind of notification that action has actually been taken so they can restore some of their faith in the company.

 

Its not about WHO, its about IF.

 

People dont want to play with scammers and cheaters. Plain and simple. They make the game not fun. If the game isnt fun, whats the point in playing it? We want to see that people have been punished for making the game not fun. We want to see that this company will not tolerate abuse. We want to see that this company has integrity. I personally think its dumb but many people (my friends included) wont ever play any EA related game ever. No matter how fun it actually is because they've been burnt by EA time and time again. Some people are watching and waiting to see if they get burnt again.

 

I dont give 2 craps who did it. But I do care that they actually punish people for rampantly breaking the rules. If they dont, then why have any rules in the first place? All I care about is integrity. Do they actually care about their own product enough to deal with situations like this.

[Drockter]

While I cant speak for anyone else, Literaly every person I know in the game exploited. And that's not a small list.

 

People tend to run in circles of similar players... If you raid, you run with (mainly) raiders. If you PvP, you run with mainly PvP'ers... and so on.

 

So each persons "straw-poll" of the people they run with would lean one way or the other. Depending on what group was asked, we can come up with vastly different answers.

 

We'll just have to wait to see what Bioware does... where they draw the line. They have much better statistics than anyone on the forums have.

[deezOneTenTen]

People tend to run in circles of similar players... If you raid, you run with (mainly) raiders. If you PvP, you run with mainly PvP'ers... and so on.

 

So each persons "straw-poll" of the people they run with would lean one way or the other. Depending on what group was asked, we can come up with vastly different answers.

 

We'll just have to wait to see what Bioware does... where they draw the line. They have much better statistics than anyone on the forums have.

 

Yeah, I was gonna say I personally only know of 8 or 10 people (out of our 150+ individual accounts in our guild alone) that have ever used any exploit. Only about 3 or 4 that used the Ravagers one.

[branmakmuffin]

You, Being the good little care bear will not hear about it,

People who use the term "care bear" are so funny because it seems they think doing something "tough" in a game makes them tough in real life.

[hachibushu]

Pitchfork crew gonna ban a motha ***ka

Musco coming down gonna tax anotha sucka

 

Don't look at me never done nuttin wrong

Chillin with da crew never smoke dat cheech and chong

 

Growin up on Nintendo never use a cheat code

Puttin in da work only run dat hard mode

 

Never had a daddy run me through a single raid

Work a honest day always get dat rent paid

 

Never skip a mob cause I only run legit

Passin on loot if I gots betta s***

 

On da starter planet teachin noobs dat honor code

Never undercuttin just to get my s*** sold

 

OG motha ***ka been down since dat beta

Look up honor code and you see it mean Zeta

 

Supportin dis game when I buyz dat Hypercrate

Exploiter goin down when SWTOR finally regulate

 

Why is this thread still going on? I could have sworn I heard a righteous mic drop at the end of that...

[ptwonline]

Why is Bioware taking so long to start action?

 

By delaying action they are allowing people who got extra gear to keep using this gear to their advantage. The longer they wait, the more damage is being done because of the exploit even if the exploit is no longer around.

[Frybert]

Why is Bioware taking so long to start action?

 

By delaying action they are allowing people who got extra gear to keep using this gear to their advantage. The longer they wait, the more damage is being done because of the exploit even if the exploit is no longer around.

 

Bioware likely has started taking action. They are probably already done with the action they were going to take. It just wasn't the bloodbath you were hoping for.

[LordArtemis]

OR they haven't acted yet because they are discussing what should be done among themselves.

[branmakmuffin]

Bioware likely has started taking action. They are probably already done with the action they were going to take. It just wasn't the bloodbath you were hoping for.

As noted many times (included by employees) they are not going to publicize their sanctions.

[Frybert]

As noted many times (included by employees) they are not going to publicize their sanctions.

 

This.

[BuriDogshin]

People dont want to play with scammers and cheaters. Plain and simple.

 

It's fallacious to presume your own preferences extend to many or even most players.

It's also innapropriate to group scammers who swindle other players with exploiters who just got extra rewards from the game, without depriving anyone else of those rewards.

 

Many players, including at least a few who did not exploit, are happy to play with (overgeared:)) exploiters.

In fact, it's conceivable, given how many people have exploited over the years ("it was Garj"), that most players are perfectly fine with exploiting as long as it doesn't deprive them of something they earned. They may, in fact, view PvE-area gankers, ops loot ninjas, and players who dash in and click the object while you are fighting the mobs (none of which is an exploit) as being more annoying than Ravagers, Nefra, or Garj exploiters. I do.

 

That said, I suspect that if you really "don't want to play with scammers and cheaters," you don't want to play any MMO. In the online world where the worst punishment that you will receive is having to go scam or cheat in another game, they abound.

[deezOneTenTen]

Why is Bioware taking so long to start action?

 

By delaying action they are allowing people who got extra gear to keep using this gear to their advantage. The longer they wait, the more damage is being done because of the exploit even if the exploit is no longer around.

 

We won’t be taking action today, but we’ll wrap it up in the next week or so.

 

 

Its only been one week......

 

 

I'm assuming with how people were saying that "everybody is doing it" that there are a lot more than Eric let on in the O.P. of this thread. I'm assuming that theres a solid ton of data they are parsing through and probably wont swing the hammer until the list is fully compiled and reviewed to make sure 100% that there is no possible way for somebody to claim that they didnt do it, when in fact they did.

[BuriDogshin]

OR they haven't acted yet because they are discussing what should be done among themselves.

 

And how long a discussion do you think that can be? This thread pretty much went through all the options and potential consequences there of in the first couple of days. But perhaps they are waiting for management to approve, that can take a while sometimes ... few managers want to be the person who approved the action that sank a hundred-plus-million-dollar-a-year business.

[branmakmuffin]

And how long a discussion do you think that can be? This thread pretty much went through all the options and potential consequences there of in the first couple of days. But perhaps they are waiting for management to approve, that can take a while sometimes ... few managers want to be the person who approved the action that sank a hundred-plus-million-dollar-a-year business.

Whoa, is that a piece of the sky that just fell on me?

 

They could perma-ban every single exploiter and the game would not even notice. The opinion that the game would suffer is yet another product of the outsized opinion raiders have of their importance to modern mass-market MMOs.

[deezOneTenTen]

And how long a discussion do you think that can be? This thread pretty much went through all the options and potential consequences there of in the first couple of days. But perhaps they are waiting for management to approve, that can take a while sometimes ... few managers want to be the person who approved the action that sank a hundred-plus-million-dollar-a-year business.

 

That is ridiculous. I've said before look at Dark Age of Camelot. They banned over 10,000 accounts in one swing back in 2003 before Mythic sold to EA. People were using a radar program in the PvP area that showed where all players were in the PvP zone. It was a HUGE deal because in that game there were Keeps to take and relics and towers. It was VERY easy to defend something if you can see where everybody is going before they get there.

 

EA finally shut down their DAoC servers last year. It lasted another 10 years after they did that mass banning. And it wasnt as popular as SWTOR. I think SWTOR will survive and wont be sunk. You can actually still play DAOK, somebody opened up some servers somewhere. You still ave to sub for it tho. I dont recall where. But that game is still kicking.

[TUXs]

They could perma-ban every single exploiter and the game would not even notice.

Like you know lol

[Nigredo]

People who use the term "care bear" are so funny because it seems they think doing something "tough" in a game makes them tough in real life.

 

awww a cute little forum troll, don't have to be "tough" guy in a game to state the obvious as for the care bears and foaming at the mouth drama queens, and other insignificant people on this septic thread.

 

the point was if any action is taken it wont be made public to please this lynch mob..or the forum locusts who get entertainment from the drama this poorly handled subject.

 

your infantile attempt to bait people is cute.. small but cute...and it will be forgotten as quickly as it was noticed.

[Danery]

I have never done any of those exploits with the exception of the fact that the popping the adds in the last CZ fight is a valid game mechanic as it has always been that way and has not changed while what they did was not a intended game mechanic it was never intended to be a loot pinata that allowed others to walk in and grab loot that they never fought for.

 

You do realize thats basically the same excuse that the people who used the Ravager exploit use right? It was that way for almost a month, it was that way on the PTS, etc. And just because a bug has never been fixed does not make it a bug or an exploit. How long did the Nefra thing exist before they fixed it the first time? How long did it take them to fix the Gharjj bug?

[Danery]

Somnow people are desperate enough to try and compare the ravager exploit to pulling people on fleet for datacrons. Lol, the sweet sweet smell of desperation. Give into the fear, complete your journey to the dark side. There is no other way.

 

Way to completely miss the point of what I posted and try to explain it away as desperation. It wasnt and you obviously stopped reading what I posted after that because you dont want to accept the fact that you will happily exploit when you want to and then try to justify that to yourself as well. It may not be on the same scale as other exploits but it is still an exploit.

[LordArtemis]

Like you know lol

 

It's a fair assumption Tux based on market norms. Of course no one knows for sure, since Bioware does not release that sort of info, but based on numerous market studies Raiders comprise a small portion of the gaming community in an MMO.

 

Even if every raider exploited and was banned that would perhaps amount to 10 to 15 percent of the playerbase...and that is generous...based on known norms of course.

 

Most folks don't even KNOW about this exploit I would assume, never mind participated in it. Not to mention that other well known norm that raiders ALSO do not typically spend more than their sub, as they tend to be resistant to things like a market and RMT....which they generally frown on.

 

So, both financially and warm body wise, it is likely the game would hardly skip a beat.

 

However, raiding would likely be hit pretty hard. That much is a given.

Edited January 19, 2015 by LordArtemis

[BuriDogshin]

the Ravager exploit ... it was that way on the PTS, etc.

That's not necessarily true. People have reported that the bug that enabled the Ravagers loot pinata was introduced one week after 3.0 went live to fix a different bug that prevented anyone who was dead at the end of the fight with Cortani or at the end of the fight with Ruuger from getting any loot.

 

So while the no-loot bug may have been on the PTS (maybe?), the loot pinata bug apparently was first introduced on the Live servers.

[BuriDogshin]

Even if every raider exploited ...

Apparently, people keep needing to be reminded that you did not need to be a raider to do the exploit.

You just needed to:

1. Have a L60 character,
   
2. Be a subscriber or have an ops pass, and
   
3. Know someone who had done the exploit.
   

 

So lots of non-raiders may have done the exploit, if nothing else than for the creds, mats, and schematics.

[Danery]

That's not necessarily true. People have reported that the bug that enabled the Ravagers loot pinata was introduced one week after 3.0 went live to fix a different bug that prevented anyone who was dead at the end of the fight with Cortani or at the end of the fight with Ruuger from getting any loot.

 

So while the no-loot bug may have been on the PTS (maybe?), the loot pinata bug apparently was first introduced on the Live servers.

 

I'll take the word of the people who were actually on the PTS and who were reporting that this was happening during that same time period over someone who claims it wasnt.

[BuriDogshin]

I'll take the word of the people who were actually on the PTS and who were reporting that this was happening during that same time period over someone who claims it wasnt.

So you'll take the word of someone who is breaking a legally-binding contract (the NDA) over that of the people who, without breaking an NDA, claim the bug did not exist during the first week of 3.0 on the Live servers?

 

That's an odd choice in my opinion.

[Pcolapat]

Whoa, is that a piece of the sky that just fell on me?

 

They could perma-ban every single exploiter and the game would not even notice. The opinion that the game would suffer is yet another product of the outsized opinion raiders have of their importance to modern mass-market MMOs.

 

The fact that they are raiders is not what makes them significant. Most raiders are subscribers. The fact that they subscribe is what makes them significant. The fifteen dollars a month they spend to support the game is only the tip of the iceberg. Subscribers also spend more in the cartel shop. Subscribers likely get more free cartel coins from BW each month than F2P players spend each month. Subscribers are very important to this game. Perma banning thousands of subscribers would significantly hurt this game.