Point of charged bolts when you get grav round?

[diamount]

It always does more damage, has the same cast time and ammo requirement and makes high impact bolt immediately available. So is there any point in having it in the bar?

 

Thx

[KomradKomiczar]

IMO, No. I have only leveled to 30 as Gunnery and using Grav Round is more efficient overall. Most of the talents either reduce the cost, double the debuff, or proc ammo for Grav Round alone. When I do any certain rotation, I only use Grav Round, Full Auto, or Impact Bolt.

 

Charged Bolts is roughly 100+ less damage at 30. I think its more of a replacement for other specs like Combat Medic that don't have access to it.

[lKurganl]

I never used this after I got Grav Round. But I looked at the tooltips for it later once I got the Full Auto Talent that allows Grav Rounds and Charged Bolts to take it off CD. And the tooltip would lead me to believe Charged Bolts do more damage than Grav Rounds. But watching the floating combat text, it consistently seemed about 300 damage short of Grav Rounds. So I'm not sure why the tooltip makes it seem like it would do more.

 

And beyond that, Charged Bolt fires I think 2 rounds, maybe 3, yet only hits once? Maybe it's bugged? Or maybe just a bad animation, 3 rounds should hit 3 times, not 1 time.

[Odex]

It really seems that it should be used, as all the talents mention it alongside Grav round. On torhead, it looks like at maximum level it might out damage Grav round, but that of course depends on your weapon. Plus, the need to grab accuracy, since Charged Bolts has a chance to miss.

 

Just not sure. The idea behind Grav round seems to be to use it just to keep up stacks, but in practice its better to spam it.

 

Only real reason I can see is if you want to use a hybrid Gunnery/Medic spec, using support cell and supercharging gas to have 10 seconds of 10% damage on free Charged Bolts and 1 ammo Full Autos. Which is what I really want to do, but if Grav round is so superior...

[lKurganl]

You do want to spam Grav Round, not just because there isn't a ton of other options, but because it has a chance to take Full Auto off CD and give it a 25% buff.

[Captain_Lurker]

I think the point of Charged Bolt is two-fold.

 

First for Gunnery Commandos it is to give them an extra single target, good damage attack before level 20 (when they get Grav Round to replace it).

 

The second is for the non-Gunnery Commandos (Combat Medic and possibly Tactics). It give the Combat Medic a good damage single target shot and combined with Supercharged Cells and Muzzle Fluting, no cost, +10% damage shots (not too difficult to do). This allows the Combat Medic to... well Combat if they dont always have to heal. Again for the Tactics Commando it gives them a strong single target shot before Incendiary Round (at which I dont expect they would use charged shot).

 

Just my thoughts...

[Sickarius]

it's for assault spec or combat medic spec (if they need to do damage)

 

Commando =/= Gunnery. There ARE other specs.

[Pingor]

it's for assault spec or combat medic spec (if they need to do damage)

 

Commando =/= Gunnery. There ARE other specs.

 

Its overall damage is slightly higher...but thats about it.

 

I like the way commandos function and really hope BW doesnt nerf Grav Round D:

[hadoken]

For full gunnery and armor piercing cell, grav round replaces charged bolts in every possible way.

 

However for a hybrid combat medic who has grav round but isn't taking the full auto skills (such as myself) and using combat support cell, charged bolts are excellent when supercharged (as they become free casts, whereas grav round does not).

[entropyboy]

any minor reason to use Charged Bolts over Grav Round is lost once you get Cell Charger.

 

if you didn't remove it from your hotbar when you got Grav Round (and really, you should have), there is no reason to keep it on after Cell Charger.

 

Gunnery is built to use Grav Round.

and i am not sure why Assault or Combat Medic would be getting Grav Round. maybe a hybrid build with Gunnery, but you still lose too much of Grav Round's potential without going deep Gunnery.

 

and its very hard to make a Charged Bolts build and go deep Gunnery while trying to avoid Grav Round.

Edited December 26, 2011 by entropyboy

[LordKivlov]

The only reason you would use it is if you get kicked (interupted) in PvP but when that happens, you should be using something else (full auto, demo, HIB or running to a new spot while hammershotting/throwing nades).

[hadoken]

and i am not sure why Assault or Combat Medic would be getting Grav Round. maybe a hybrid build with Gunnery, but you still lose too much of Grav Round's potential without going deep Gunnery.

 

and its very hard to make a Charged Bolts build and go deep Gunnery while trying to avoid Grav Round.

 

There is a fairly popular pvp hybrid CM/Gunnery spec that uses grav round and trauma probe. This build ignores the gunnery skills that modify full auto and just focuses on modifying grav round with reduced ammo cost, two stacks of the armor debuff and the damage shield.

 

It looks something like this and is extremely effective in a good player's hands:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800bfRRRdc0zZRckrR0d.1

 

You will be swapping ammo cells back and forth depending on your focus, and in combat support cell you can switch to a fast free burst using charged bolts when supercharged.

[LordKivlov]

There is a fairly popular pvp hybrid CM/Gunnery spec that uses grav round and trauma probe. This build ignores the gunnery skills that modify full auto and just focuses on modifying grav round with reduced ammo cost, two stacks of the armor debuff and the damage shield.

 

It looks something like this and is extremely effective in a good player's hands:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800bfRRRdc0zZRckrR0d.1

 

You will be swapping ammo cells back and forth depending on your focus, and in combat support cell you can switch to a fast free burst using charged bolts when supercharged.

 

First responder is a waste unless you're going full healer. Alacrity is meant for a pure healer, not for DPS.

[hadoken]

First responder is a waste unless you're going full healer. Alacrity is meant for a pure healer, not for DPS.

 

A popular opinion, I know. Not necessarily the correct one, however.

 

2 points:

 

1. the hybrid build I list is a strong healer and dps, so alacrity is good from a healing perspective regardless of your opinion.

 

2. full auto benefits tremendously from alacrity and as a full gunnery build is about maximizing full auto usage...well I'm sure you can do the math here.

Edited December 26, 2011 by hadoken

[LordKivlov]

Except you're ditching DPS stats to gain Alacrity which is going to hurt you way more than getting full auto off faster will benefit you.

 

Secondly, you're limited by ammo anyways, so getting the ability off faster isn't benefiting you any unless you're doing a full ammo dump which you won't be doing very often.

Edited December 26, 2011 by LordKivlov

[Stochrin]

A popular opinion, I know. Not necessarily the correct one, however.

 

2 points:

 

1. the hybrid build I list is a strong healer and dps, so alacrity is good from a healing perspective regardless of your opinion.

 

2. full auto benefits tremendously from alacrity and as a full gunnery build is about maximizing full auto usage...well I'm sure you can do the math here.

 

But 2% isn't gonna do much unless you're already stacking alacrity, which wouldn't be very smart if you still wanna do good DPS.

[altiris]

Except you're ditching DPS stats to gain Alacrity which is going to hurt you way more than getting full auto off faster will benefit you.

 

Secondly, you're limited by ammo anyways, so getting the ability off faster isn't benefiting you any unless you're doing a full ammo dump which you won't be doing very often.

 

Which DPS talents are you skipping to get 1/2 First Responder?

[Scotfo]

It's a part of Assault spec's single target DPS rotation. It has a 30% chance to take High Impact Bolt of CD and make it free with the skill Ionic Accelerator and should be used whenever Full Auto is on CD and all your flame dot's are up. It also can be usefull for some assault spec spike damage in PvP. Toss a sticky and start casting charged bolt. If you get a high impact bolt proc you can have the sticky, charged bold, and high impact bolt go off near the same time. Hits hard.

[altiris]

But 2% isn't gonna do much unless you're already stacking alacrity, which wouldn't be very smart if you still wanna do good DPS.

 

2% is 2% regardless of whether you have 100% haste or 0% haste, though you definitely don't want to be stacking a lot of haste.

[Dayshadow]

It always does more damage, has the same cast time and ammo requirement and makes high impact bolt immediately available. So is there any point in having it in the bar?

 

Thx

 

 

Grav Round is, in fact, a Gunnery only replacement for Charged Bolt.

 

Charged bolt, at higher rankings, will do slightly more damage, but it won't A.) debuff the target's armor, B.) negate Full Auto's cooldown or C.) increase High Impact Bolt's damage. It's bonuses vastly outweight the extra 100dmg you would do with Charged Bolt.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Dayshadow

[Dayshadow]

There is a fairly popular pvp hybrid CM/Gunnery spec that uses grav round and trauma probe. This build ignores the gunnery skills that modify full auto and just focuses on modifying grav round with reduced ammo cost, two stacks of the armor debuff and the damage shield.

 

It looks something like this and is extremely effective in a good player's hands:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800bfRRRdc0zZRckrR0d.1

 

You will be swapping ammo cells back and forth depending on your focus, and in combat support cell you can switch to a fast free burst using charged bolts when supercharged.

 

 

A popular opinion, I know. Not necessarily the correct one, however.

 

2 points:

 

1. the hybrid build I list is a strong healer and dps, so alacrity is good from a healing perspective regardless of your opinion.

 

2. full auto benefits tremendously from alacrity and as a full gunnery build is about maximizing full auto usage...well I'm sure you can do the math here.

 

That's not a hybrid. There really is no hybrid spec for Gunnery as the other tress don't really have much synergy with gunnery tree, but lower teir gunnery skills do have synergy with the other trees. Besides a couple 1st teir stat talents in the other trees the gunnery tree is pretty self contained. What you have there is a healer spec with a a little more DPS efficiency. Without Deadly Cannon, Rotary Cannon and Curtain of Fire you completely defeat the purpose of the gunnery line. High, low cost, sustainable DPS. You lack the core abilities that would make a gunnery a good DPS. You even skipped charged barrel.

 

As far as hybridizing, to up DPS you'd be better off going for High Friction Bolt in the assault tree so you have 65% armor pentration (with armor piercing cell) to max out High Impact Bolt. But it's kinda wasteful really to spend all those points to improve HIB when optimizing full auto and getting demo round is cheaper and leave more points to focus on more useful support talents. It would leave you with no Demolition Round and only 1/5 chance of cancelling Full Auto's CD vs 1/3 chance.

 

If you want more alacrity I'd go this route: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800Mc0MZMIkrRrdkzMZf.1

 

Maximizing the Gunnery tree is still the best bet.

 

Looking at your build, 9% faster channel time is in no way going to compensate for 33% increased dmg on full auto, 30% bonus crit dmg, up to 30% extra HIB damage and more frequent full auto usage. Not to mention to loss of demolition round that crits very high.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Dayshadow

[hadoken]

I'm not entirely sure what the point of trying to claim a very clear hybrid isn't one and then ripping it apart as not doing as much dps as a pure dps role is.

 

Obviously we're going to have to agree to disagree if you consider a build that includes trauma probe and double stacking grav rounds to NOT be a hybrid. It is a PVP healing/damage build focusing on grav round for damage instead of full auto (which is pretty terrible in pvp unless you're being left completely alone). It performs VERY well.

Edited December 28, 2011 by hadoken

[Dayshadow]

I'm not entirely sure what the point of trying to claim a very clear hybrid isn't one and then ripping it apart as not doing as much dps as a pure dps role is.

 

Because stated that your build would make you a strong healer and DPS. Strong healer: Yes. Strong DPS: No.

 

And hybrid of what? It has nothing in it that makes gunnery gunnery. There is no such thing as a hybrid gunnery DPS/healer when it comes to Commandos. You're just a healer. You're DPS will be practically the same as if you went full healer as you've skipped all the DPS skills. You'll save alittle ammo, but your actually DPS will hardly change.

 

Obviously we're going to have to agree to disagree if you consider a build that includes trauma probe and double stacking grav rounds to NOT be a hybrid. It is a PVP healing/damage build focusing on grav round for damage instead of full auto (which is pretty terrible in pvp unless you're being left completely alone). It performs VERY well

 

Double stacked grav vortexes for what exactly? Not HIB (which isn't based on vortexes) or Demo Round (which you lack). You're main benefit will be defensive or supportive, but as a healer you won't be spamming grav round and as a DPS you will, but your DPS will be subpar regardless. So what have you really accomplished? You speak as if you've made grav round into the next full auto. The benefits of double vortexes is more for having more dmg when demo round is ready. But as you lack that attack the talent doesn't really matter too much when it comes to your DPS.

 

I use full auto in PvP in duel situations all the time just fine. And I do not lose 1vs1 to anyone save high lvls with PvP gear.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Dayshadow

[hadoken]

And I do not lose 1vs1 to anyone save high lvls with PvP gear.

 

I'll end this thread on that note. That is precisely where this build is being utilized

[LordKivlov]

You know you're not the only one out there doing damage and that the build (while I disagree with Alacrity on anything but a pure healer) layed out is a utility build instead of a DPS build. You stack Grav Rounds because not only does it increase everybodies damage, but it also stacks with Jedi Knight and Gunslingers armour reduction abilities.

 

Sundering someone 5 times quickly while you're tossing heals out on friendlies will benefit your team immensely. It's not your ideal healer and it's definitely not your ideal damage but it should fill a support-dps role well.