BuriDogshin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Shocking... the forum hyper-inflated the suspected numbers. Who would have guessed? "Most players didn't partake in the exploit" could mean "the huge number of 'players' who rarely if ever log in but still have accounts didn't partake in the exploit." What fraction of players has even bought SoR at this point, as opposed to how many are waiting for it to become free like RoTHC did? And "few" is relative. "Few" people voted for Gary Johnson in the 2012 US Presidential election: only 1.3 million. Few is not a number or a percentage, it's a perspective. BioWare has good reasons to try to downplay the extensiveness of the exploit. We'll see what we see when we see it, if we see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) And in this case, it may be more profitable to overlook all but the most blatant and public exploiters. I think it is more about peeling the onion. There are a number of levels of data they need to review here. For example: Do they penalize anyone who purchased a mod off the GTN, given the purchaser has no way of knowing the source of the recipe and mats that the crafter used???? Probably not, because exploit penalties are for those that directly exploit, or conspire to get others to do so. They might claw-back the mod(s), but I doubt it.... as the GTN is blind to the legality of content that is listed. I'm sure they will claw back the profits of an illicit crafter...but the chain probably stops at that point. It's a fairly thick onion to peel this time because the results of exploiters appear to have made their way into the GTN in some cases. Edited January 13, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 "Most players didn't partake in the exploit" could mean "the huge number of 'players' who rarely if ever log in but still have accounts didn't partake in the exploit." What fraction of players has even bought SoR at this point, as opposed to how many are waiting for it to become free like RoTHC did? And "few" is relative. "Few" people voted for Gary Johnson in the 2012 US Presidential election: only 1.3 million. Few is not a number or a percentage, it's a perspective. BioWare has good reasons to try to downplay the extensiveness of the exploit. We'll see what we see when we see it, if we see it. Are you calling Eric a liar? Eric made a point of thanking all the many who did not exploit... so I have no reason to not take him at his word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadHobbit Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 why not do what the goverment is doing about drugs ,decriminalize exploits,after all the biggest exploiter is EA/BW,buggy releases,"nudging" us to play only the way you want us to play.using us as paying beta testers.giving us almost meanliess perks, finding ways to increase grinding for stuff,moving us down a path to get us ready for when SWTOR 2.0 comes out in a year or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Hey folks, Stage 2 – With the exploit removed, we can work towards finalizing our data review and assigning appropriate actions. We have a lot of information! We know who used it, who they invited, how many times they exploited, when they participated, credits gained, and whether they gained a crafting pattern from reverse-engineering. We are still reviewing the data and determining the appropriate action for those who took undue advantage of the exploit. We won’t be taking action today, but we’ll wrap it up in the next week or so. -eric Well, im happy to see they do indeed have ways to track who did it, as well as what they got, including REs. This must make all the people -insisting- that they cant track it rather silly... as well as be food for thought for future considered misdeeds. What they actually do with said information is anyones guess, but it sounds like they are going to go over it with some sort of a comb, who knows what will remain of the cheaters ill gotten gains in those tines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Are you calling Eric a liar? Eric made a point of thanking all the many who did not exploit... so I have no reason to not take him at his word. Spin is not a necessarily a lie. "Many" is not necessarily a majority, and "few" can mean tens of thousands: the terms used in Eric's post are open to widely varying interpretations. People should avoid reading more into those terms than they should. Eric's posts are all intended to make some amount of the player base happy. So they will be spun in that direction, while at the same time not providing any data that could be used to BioWare's detriment. In this case, the post may also be intentionally designed to produce a week of "fear, uncertainty, and doubt" in exploiters, as a way of punishing them. But imagine if 60% of the people who bought SoR, that is, 60% of the players that were capable of doing the exploit, did it: do you think BioWare would ever admit that or even post something that might lead you to think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Guess the numbers weren't as big as everyone thought.what makes you say that? the fact that its taking them weeks to figure it out and what to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarekCyphus Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Well, im happy to see they do indeed have ways to track who did it, as well as what they got, including REs. This must make all the people -insisting- that they cant track it rather silly... as well as be food for thought for future considered misdeeds. What they actually do with said information is anyones guess, but it sounds like they are going to go over it with some sort of a comb, who knows what will remain of the cheaters ill gotten gains in those tines. They're taking steps to discourage this kind of behavior. Good enough for me. Edited January 13, 2015 by JarekCyphus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Are you calling Eric a liar? Eric made a point of thanking all the many who did not exploit... so I have no reason to not take him at his word.im not sure whats being argued here but it seems people have a hard time with words like "majority, many, few" etc. he didnt provide numbers. trying to quantify things here is silly especially considering no one is wrong. i mean what do we know...that 51% of players didnt exploit? i mean really thats the only conclusion you can make and im not sure ANYONE thought more than half of all swtor players exploited. thats not to say there is a listed of hundreds if not thousands that did. anything is possible. people took the gamble that given the extent of the exploit, they would be protected in numbers. time will tell if that was true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Well, im happy to see they do indeed have ways to track who did it, as well as what they got, including REs. you misread; he didnt state he knows what the looted or received, just if they gained a recipe. might be nothing, but i'm begining to think items are indeed not easily trackable as we're told in support tickets. tracking instances and credit transactions is something thats trackable. that's why they can provide coms for doing an operation by confirming you instance ID, but not items from loot. this is all coming together in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 im not sure whats being argued here but it seems people have a hard time with words like "majority, many, few" etc. he didnt provide numbers. trying to quantify things here is silly especially considering no one is wrong. i mean what do we know...that 51% of players didnt exploit? i mean really thats the only conclusion you can make and im not sure ANYONE thought more than half of all swtor players exploited. thats not to say there is a listed of hundreds if not thousands that did. anything is possible. people took the gamble that given the extent of the exploit, they would be protected in numbers. time will tell if that was true. Just what is the definition of the word 'is'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadHobbit Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 while Eric may be a nice and wonderful person,people in his job have to follow company guidelines, and if his boss tells him to mislead or out right lie to us, people in that job,either do it or start looking for a job elsewhere,So while they may be looking for who used the exploit,i suspect we will not hear too much about the punishments,other than it was handed out, they do not want to tell that for example 25k people were punished. It would make it seem like the game isfullof rampent exploiters. and a unknown exploit is one thing, from what I have heard/read they knew it was in the patch and released it anyway,which is a bit of a black eye for the dev team and QA testers. like releasing a car with a faulty ignition switch,that might cause a crash and or deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Welcome to the SWTOR forums. Where few means many, opinion means fact, its your fault not mine, and your opinion is the only one that is correct. Hope you enjoy your stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Welcome to the SWTOR forums. Where few means many, opinion means fact, its your fault not mine, and your opinion is the only one that is correct. Hope you enjoy your stay. LOL... summed it up nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyreMaker Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) ...and a unknown exploit is one thing, from what I have heard/read they knew it was in the patch and released it anyway,which is a bit of a black eye for the dev team and QA testers. like releasing a car with a faulty ignition switch,that might cause a crash and or deaths Corporations like it when players fight with other players and distract us from facts. It's very useful to create a public image of always being on the right side of things. There will always be those who can't see the forest for the trees. They will read this and have no clue what I am talking about, that is how bad it is. Who knew what and when, then did what to resolve it? is a question that is completely outside of the mental abilities of the hate-filled commenters on here. "Most players didn't partake in the exploit" Most of them more than likely purchased mods gained from the exploit fully knowing where they came from yet they know they will escape punishment for exploiting the same way only to a lesser degree. Edited January 13, 2015 by DyreMaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) In the end... BW is living up to the ToS... I'll accept their word on the matter. We have a lot of information! We know who used it, who they invited, how many times they exploited, when they participated, credits gained, and whether they gained a crafting pattern from reverse-engineering. We are still reviewing the data and determining the appropriate action for those who took undue advantage of the exploit. We won’t be taking action today, but we’ll wrap it up in the next week or so. On the plus side, most players didn't partake in the exploit at all allowing us to focus on the few who did. It may seem silly to thank you for not using an exploit, but we really appreciate you taking the time to raise our awareness of the issue through a variety of channels. It demonstrates your commitment to the game and to keeping the game fun, and fair for everyone. So thank you for not using the exploit. -eric I'm not going to quibble over semantics. What "most" means, or what "few" means. In the end, they are taking a stand and will administer appropriate action (what they deem as appropriate), and I am perfectly ok with that. In the end, they are making it known that exploits are not ok. If anyone took advantage of the exploit, you have earned any consequence they send your direction. Best of luck. Edit: /thread Edited January 13, 2015 by Drockter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexerjones Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Love the idea at the top of the post. Maybe a title. "The Honest". and then theres this. Remember when Dread Palace was bugged? Council was impossible to clear. How much gear was lost on just that bug? Any how many other massive bugs have hit flashpoints and ops over the years? Now that one bug throws free gear our way, Bioware is bringing out the knives. Think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexerjones Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 So heres my thoughts. Remember when Dread Palace was bugged? Council was impossible to clear. How much gear was lost on just that bug? Any how many other massive bugs have hit flashpoints and ops over the years? Now that one bug throws free gear our way, Bioware is bringing out the knives. Think about it. So, given that it was a Bioware error that made this possible in the first place, and any heavy punishment will only drive people away from the game, I propose that you give some rare, unobtainable stuff to people who were honest. Do not bite the hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 No thanks. I don't ask for a cookie from my local police department every time I obey a traffic light. People knowingly chose to break the rules, they should be prepared to accept the consequences of their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I'll take working Jetpacks since I didn't exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Sorry but I don't agree, you don't get rewarded for following rules but you get punished if you break them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Bring out the whips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viraxis Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I would be happy with a strong statement for the future with BW perma banning everyone who did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Why is is that people nowadays always think they should get a cookie, when they do the right thing? When I taught my dog proper manners, I'd reward him with a cookie, so he would understand he was doing something right; I didn't realize people playing this game, by doing the same, expected similar treatment. Edited January 13, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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