ivanhedgehog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 You're right, and many people are overstating the problem. But here you're doing the opposite -- understating the problem. It's not "they're playing different than you", it's "they're playing differently from the rules Bioware set up" actually, bioware set up the current broken rule. they programmed it and knowingly put it live. it may not be what they intended, but it is what they programmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leihn Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 You make it sound like exploiters are a valuable asset to the game. They're not. Nobody is that important, and the $15 paid by a newbie player pays the bills as much as the $15 paid by the dishonest players they replace. Those that did it need to "man up" and take responsibility for their misdeeds. Well if you guarantee me a new subscriber that subscribes for as long as every player you ban I'll agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 actually, bioware set up the current broken rule. they programmed it and knowingly put it live. it may not be what they intended, but it is what they programmed. Hasn't it come out that the existence of this bug was made very clear to Bioware by the testers on PTS? If it was, and Bioware left it in for launch... then the outrage directed at the people who took advantage of it becomes even more overblown and ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It will be interesting to see what they will do,but I cant see a severe punishment at all because the amount of players that have done the exploit... Because "Everybody is doing it"... Nope, most of us don't cheat, enjoy your upcoming ban. And frankly the entire raiding community is only a rounding error on the books. You mean nothing, Wall Street would not even notice you missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toecuttr Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Wow, some of you guy's just dont live in the real world do you? Nothing substantial will come of this because as with all things, money drives this game. Bioware wont piss off a major part of it's player base. I would expect 3 day bans AT MOST and I feel that is even unlikley. Some action may be taken against the people who originally brought it over from the PTS and let it get out. But I suspect it will be the same as with the Nephra bug......Sweet FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 So it's a case of collectively failing to read the Terms of Service then as raiders? So not only do the players who have abused this exploit gained BiS gear, within a time frame that really defeats the purpose of an MMO and progression. Those said raiders have also spread the exploit to others in the playerbase for credits / currency. It's not just one part of the ToS that have been broken here, and yes, there is a much wider picture to look at. The raiders who have done this are meant to be some of our peers in this game, the ones we look up to for figuring out the mechanics of the fights in new raids. You know what I see now? Nothing good. I hope BioWare DO make an example of the players who have abused the exploit for ill-gotten gains. As for the threat of leaving the game? Good-bye and good luck. Why should anyone or any company be held in sway by players who have no respect for the community or the game developers? EA stockholders might disagree with you. It is after all, a business and running of such a large portion of the customers that pay for the game, while keeping the free2ploaders happy doesnt work to well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) You make it sound like exploiters are a valuable asset to the game. They're not. Nobody is that important, and the $15 paid by a newbie player pays the bills as much as the $15 paid by the dishonest players they replace. Those that did it need to "man up" and take responsibility for their misdeeds. Indeed this. Yes, it is just a game, but part of the overarching fun that people get from playing games is the ability to do so on a level playing field. People cheat all the time in games - and each and every game has a system of banning in place to deal with offenders. People who cheat in games, get pleasure out of cheating. They will do it no matter which game it is. They will eventually get caught in every game they play, and they will eventually be banned in every game they play. Ultimately, it is the only way to keep gaming enjoyable and viable for anyone who wants to play in a honest method. Fortunately, there are far, far more honest players in the gaming community than there are cheaters. No game ever closed up shop because cheaters were banned from playing the game. In fact, games usually get stronger when the word gets out that cheating will not be tolerated in a game. Edited January 10, 2015 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marakiri Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 There were 3 full pages and sometime more of every single 192 mod on the Harbinger GTN... Many of the sellers had multiple items. Priced from 900K-3m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I get what your saying but tell that to all the Wildstar Exploiters this past November,as some people know Wildstar doesn't have nearly as much of subs like Swtor does, but they pass out the ban flag like there's no tomorrow and don't even flinch.Like i think a 1/3 of the population was kicked in November alone. (numbers might be off). As a business sense don't publishers agree to the "Terms of Service" clause? If so your at the mercy of Maker,um i mean Bioware, well the peeps that exploited are.(DA:I rocks!) But why all the finger pointing? "Its all Bioware's fault" Actually i think its the community fault,well some of you at least, posting this exploit in General chat,twitter ect. Its like you dared to see what Bioware will do next or how will they respond. To all exploiters hey you messed up got caught now its time to face the music, if nothing happens congratulations!! but man the flood gates are open terms of service out the window and the message of the day is find more exploits and you will be rewarded. Reminder: "Super Secret squirrels don't use Twitter":cool: and what happened to those wildstar devs? layoffs.carbine laid off 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Because "Everybody is doing it"... Nope, most of us don't cheat, enjoy your upcoming ban. And frankly the entire raiding community is only a rounding error on the books. You mean nothing, Wall Street would not even notice you missing. Why do you keep assuming that anyone who doesn't share your view of this must be a raider who used the exploit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Because "Everybody is doing it"... Nope, most of us don't cheat, enjoy your upcoming ban. And frankly the entire raiding community is only a rounding error on the books. You mean nothing, Wall Street would not even notice you missing. If the entire raiding community is only a rounding error on the books, then the "damage" done to the game and to other players by those who used the exploit is non-existent. But by all means, let's continue calling for the heads of people who have taken advantage of an exploit that had absolutely no negative effect on the gameplay of anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Hasn't it come out that the existence of this bug was made very clear to Bioware by the testers on PTS? If it was, and Bioware left it in for launch... then the outrage directed at the people who took advantage of it becomes even more overblown and ridiculous. Agreed Max. The claims by those who DO know, make this even more interesting. That's negligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) And punish all the customers not exploiting? It (the exploit) was obvious, it was a choice. It (the exploit) was a bad choice... How is fixing a bug punishment for customers? I thought it was part of EAware's job description and what customers expected as part of the service the customers pay for?. We're not talking about having to hunt through millions of lines of code to find the newest source of server lag / ability delay. We're talking about an easily identifiable bug that should have been easily traced and fixed in hours if they gave it priority. Yet, not only do they not fix it when it was immediately known, but even now they figure "next Tuesday" is a good time to get around to it. Inconveniencing some customers for a few hours as soon as the exploit was confirmed, or further pissing off customers ( who are already incensed over other problems introduced with the latest content ) 3+ weeks on plus having to deal with the headaches of tracking down abusers, stripping accounts, determining punishment, etc. Which would YOU have chosen? Edited January 9, 2015 by Zorvan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobinskii Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 oh man the salt is real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 oh man the salt is real People are mad, it's hilarious... I can't *********** wait until Tuesday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Agreed Max. The claims by those who DO know, make this even more interesting. That's negligence. Even if they didn't know about it from PTS, the fact that it was reported in live a month ago (to include forum posts that were quickly deleted) and not hotfixed shows negligence. And I'll guess we'll see what if anything they do with those that originated and propagated this whole HM mess across multiple servers. While I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the 'someone grouped us and took our lock out' claims, something still smells fishy. Edited January 9, 2015 by DawnAskham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Even if they didn't know about it from PTS, the fact that it was reported in live a month ago (to include forum posts that were quickly deleted) and not hotfixed shows negligence. And I'll guess we'll see what if anything they do with those that originated and propagated this whole HM mess across multiple servers. While I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the 'someone grouped us and took our lock out' claims, something still smells fishy. Agreed. And yeah...something doesn't sound right in this whole thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Does the fact that many more are making less but, still good profits, instead of a few making obscene profits mean the market was harmed? It definitely hurt the hard mode raider with the high level crafter, but their raider buddies who distributed the method for doing this opened the floodgates. Is the market harmed, doubtful, I suspect more credits are moving now than before this debacle. /Agree. The market and the economy is not harmed by the moving of credits from one player to another (which is exactly what the GTN does). It's zero sum game as far as the economy is concerned. And NO.. I do not condone the use of exploits, I simply understand how the credit economy works in game. Edited January 9, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Wrong is wrong. So, you have never made a dark side choice in this game whatsoever, right? Because wrong is wrong after all. It would be wrong to shock Vette with her collar, because slavery is wrong. It would be wrong to destroy a whole planet. So, since its a game, your contention there is no right or wrong? Its truly amazing the lengths people will go to justify cheating, and refuse any personal accountability for breaking the rules. God forbid. We agreed (all of us) to abide by the rules of the game when we signed up... now EA/BW have the final determination on what happens next... but rules WERE broken. They have said as much in Eric's post. Again... wrong is wrong. I hope they come down hard on the biggest offenders, and especially those who sold access to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feargal Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 People are mad, it's hilarious... I can't *********** wait until Tuesday... 70 pages of butthurt. Is that a record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 70 pages of butthurt. Is that a record? You must be new here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Hasn't it come out that the existence of this bug was made very clear to Bioware by the testers on PTS? If it was, and Bioware left it in for launch... then the outrage directed at the people who took advantage of it becomes even more overblown and ridiculous. There was NO PTS for 3.0. There was a closed beta test however. In the hyperbole and passion of this thread.... facts ARE important. As for their alleged decision to go live anyway..... yeah.. I probably would not hold up a major release for something like this. Why? because the policy on exploits is to be very low key about them.. not even acknowledge them so as to avoid spreading word about them. Sure.. that approach is a gamble... but as a commercial gamble for a business.. it's generally low risk and has worked for years. As for their taking so long after 3.0 release to fix it.... ummm.. people seem to forget that they had/have a number of big issues with the release of 3.0 that actually affect peoples ability to play the game. If I was the PM on this project, I would not be putting my resources on stomping out exploits ahead of fixing major things like ability lag. I'm not saying that they made the right choice ultimately here... BUT... hindsight is always 20/20 whereas prelease and early post release creates actual fog in the process of addressing and fixing issues with complex software. Players.. well players are happy to prosecute using hindsight (pretending they are somehow prescient gods of the MMO world ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 You must be new here. Exactly...we're just getting started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simcity Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 70 pages of butthurt. Is that a record? lol maybe! But a lot of it was legit arguments from both sides of the fence. Very interested to see what they do tuesday, and whether or not said punishment will be cutting its nose to spite its face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 So, since its a game, your contention there is no right or wrong? Its truly amazing the lengths people will go to justify cheating, and refuse any personal accountability for breaking the rules. God forbid. We agreed (all of us) to abide by the rules of the game when we signed up... now EA/BW have the final determination on what happens next... but rules WERE broken. They have said as much in Eric's post. Again... wrong is wrong. I hope they come down hard on the biggest offenders, and especially those who sold access to it... My contention is that one's sense of right v. wrong is not determined by what they do in a video game. Clearly most everyone knows the difference between right and wrong. And I'd be willing to bet that many people who use exploits in a video game are very upstanding, law-abiding citizens in real life. Games are an escape from real life. An opportunity to do things in game they wouldn't normally do in real life. Such as own and shock a slave. Or murder innocent people. That's my point. So, to talk about consequences for actions is a bit silly in terms of a video game. And turning this situation into a debate on morality is asinine. It's a video game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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