Ocho-Quatro Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Decent post but here is where I see you being slight wrong. Everyone knows there are software bugs. It happens at launch of games or any software really. There are many bugs and most gamers during those times freely accept those bugs as a possibility. The software could be worked on for a year and gamers know at launch bugs will happen and be there and most are understanding of that. Where did that understanding go here? Did it go out the door because free loot was involved? Did that understanding go out the door because exploiters just don't want to be punished? Did that understanding go out the door because they were caught with their hand in the cookie jar? NOw, ee get a bug in this small expansion that allows gamers to exploit something, nearly every SWTOR gamer clearly knows is wrong and is cheating/exploiting but to make themselves feel better they through it back on BW as if they are the only ones at fault. Yelling, You didn't say something fast enough or you didn't fix it fast enough so I used it, exploited and you should just shut up about it. It's the coders fault. That exploiting the game in a way we know is wrong is OK just because of a bug and it took a while for acknowledgement to happen and a bit longer for a fix to happen. There is certain level if weirdness in that so many say let cheating happen and BW is to blame but not me for doing what I know was wrong. Then in another instance (launch) we get bugs happen and try to let them slide becuse we understand bugs happen. In this case lets crucify BW so gamers don't have to own up to their actions but in a similar instance we let it slide. It seems to me it might be more wide spread then I originally thought with so many that suddenly want to blame BW solely for the bug and take no accountability for their own actions that they know were clearly wrong and against the rules. You are correct in that, all software has bugs. Everyone person whether they are buying Photoshop or Office, or CAD software, or a game... There's an understanding that no product is PERFECT. There will be bugs, there will be patches and hotfixes and updates. The ability delay we are experiencing now? That's a bug. It's annoying, it's problematic... It's going to be fixed eventually, but it isn't "game-breaking" in the meantime for the MOST part. What THIS is... while technically a "bug" it's something that was created. There was a previous bug that existed in which the encounter in question provided NO loot. It was fixed. And as happens many times in the software world, fixing one thing can break ten other things. And it's highly likely that is what happened in this case. Also..... any MMO game developer has to realize: Gamers will ALWAYS find a way. They will find a way to break things, skip things, find workarounds... It has, and always will be the case. So when something like this comes along? Why not revert the patch back that "fixed" the previous looting issue? Why not temporarily close down the encounter for a week or 2 (since it happened over Christmas when they likely had barebones staff to actually FIX the problem.) Bioware (or any game dev) would be foolish to think that the playerbase would just "do the right thing" and not take complete advantage (whether they think it's right or not) of this situation. They should have locked it down immediately. Think about it.... if the lock on the front door of your house broke on Christmas Eve as you were getting ready to spend 2 weeks on vacation at your sister's house, would you fix it as soon as possible? Or would you just say "Eh.. this will be fine until I get back. I'm sure that either no one will notice my house is completely unlocked, and even if they do, they will probably just do the right thing and not come inside and steal my television." The person who steals your television is STILL wrong... But you could have very easily avoided having your television stolen, if you had fixed the broken lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocho-Quatro Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 On Tuesday I guess we will see what EA cares more about. Their revenue or their playerbase. Is anyone actually expecting them to choose 'playerbase'? It doesn't matter what they choose to do. They will hurt BOTH the playerbase and their revenue. If they over-punish? They will lose the players they punish. If they under-punish (or not at all)? They will lose the players who felt the others should have been punished. Either way, it will result in lost revenue AND lost players. It's a lose-lose at this point... unless there's an angle I'm just not seeing as a possible 3rd option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugattiboy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Monopoly isn't meant to be fun or enjoyed. It was designed as a demonstration that capitalism sucks. Capitalism doesn't inherently suck. Look at Bill Gates and all his philanthropic work. That's possible because of wealth he obtained from Microsoft. A company he co-founded in a capitalist economy. What sucks about capitalism is that it can so easily turn into an oligarchy like the U.S. has demonstrated over the past 5 years or so. The person who steals your television is STILL wrong... But you could have very easily avoided having your television stolen, if you had fixed the broken lock. Amen brother. Edited January 8, 2015 by Bugattiboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 It's a lose-lose at this point... unless there's an angle I'm just not seeing as a possible 3rd option? That's why you hire professional QA people, and not 13 yearold family members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 A game has rules for a reason. How fun would a game of Monopoly be when you could just take money from the bank when you're about to lose? Yeah, not very. You're right. Games do have rules for a reason. And that reason is primarily to keep a fair and level playing field when players are playing against each other. If I cheat in Monopoly, it gives me an unfair advantage over you, and directly affects your experience playing against me in Monopoly, And if we were talking about a PVP exploit, I'd be with you 100% since there you're actually playing against other people and they would have an unfair advantage over you. However, the exploiters in this case have not affected your gameplay in the slightest. You can still play the game just as you would have if they hadn't exploited the bug. They have not gained any advantage over you that they can use against you in any facet of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Capitalism doesn't inherently suck. Look at Bill Gates and all his philanthropic work. That's possible because of wealth he obtained from Microsoft. A company he co-founded in a capitalist economy. What sucks about capitalism is that it can so easily turn into an oligarchy like the U.S. has demonstrated over the past 5 years or so. Donating money you siphoned from poor people is easy to throw away when you have so much of it that you could build an airplane out of thousand dollar bills and set it on fire without even noticing. The only good thing about capitalism is that it breeds competition, and competiton is the driving force behind innovation, and innovation is the only thing that can prevent our extinction when the next big rock comes down on us (hopefully, but it's still our best hope). I'd rather be relatively poor in a capitalist society and alive than have a nice car and be blown away by a shockwave of fire from a massive rock slamming into the earth. Edited January 8, 2015 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You're right. Games do have rules for a reason. And that reason is primarily to keep a fair and level playing field when players are playing against each other. If I cheat in Monopoly, it gives me an unfair advantage over you, and directly affects your experience playing against me in Monopoly, And if we were talking about a PVP exploit, I'd be with you 100% since there you're actually playing against other people and they would have an unfair advantage over you. However, the exploiters in this case have not affected your gameplay in the slightest. You can still play the game just as you would have if they hadn't exploited the bug. They have not gained any advantage over you that they can use against you in any facet of the game. And what happens when a raid leader picks you over me because you have better gera you obtained by cheating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Wait, doing that was bad? Hell, I've been doing it for a long time. Ban me please Bioware. well that's the one they decided to let slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curulz Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 And what happens when a raid leader picks you over me because you have better gera you obtained by cheating? Start your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiltoftheDragon Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 And what happens when a raid leader picks you over me because you have better gera you obtained by cheating? That wont happen as much as you think. Mabey pugs work that way but most guilds wont. If you have a RL that picks somebody over you and using a few points in gear stats as the reason?...then your RL also exploited and you should find another guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simcity Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Start your own? He won't have 50 million creds for a flagship - no one will join it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 And what happens when a raid leader picks you over me because you have better gera you obtained by cheating? Hop in group finder? Join another group? Start your own group? Join a guild? Group with friends so I can't take your spot? Challenge me to a duel in front of the group leader to prove you're more skilled than I am? Since due to my hypothetical cheating, I must be a terrible player and unworthy of a raid spot otherwise. How would this be any different than that happening if the person got their gear doing the content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebevo Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Like many people posted they can either commit commercial suicide and ban a very large portion of their population (and yes, it is a very significant portion) Or piss off the legitimate gamer's that were yelling and screaming for a fix that didn't come for weeks. It isn't even that simple. Banning someone that did the exploit can even tick off legitimate gamers. Suppose only two people in you group used the exploit. They are banned forever, a month or even a week. Now suppose they are your two tanks. Isn't their punishment going to also punish legitimate gamers that did not use the exploit? Of course by the same token, not punishing them will give the group a cheating advantage to even get more gear for the entire group as two competent BiS tanks makes everyone job in the group easier. I see no easy answer. I wish people wouldn't cheat, but that is just human nature. Edited January 8, 2015 by mikebevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fushnchips Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 And what happens when a raid leader picks you over me because you have better gera you obtained by cheating? GitGud, gear isn't everything it's all about skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiltoftheDragon Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) He won't have 50 million creds for a flagship - no one will join it He was refering to starting his own raid...not a guild.....errr hmmm wait, yea mabey your right. Edited January 8, 2015 by HiltoftheDragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hop in group finder? Join another group? Start your own group? Join a guild? Group with friends so I can't take your spot? Challenge me to a duel in front of the group leader to prove you're more skilled than I am? Since due to my hypothetical cheating, I must be a terrible player and unworthy of a raid spot otherwise. How would this be any different than that happening if the person got their gear doing the content? So in all cases, I have to jump through more hoops for not exploiting, and you find nothing worng or unfair with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruceme Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 the player bases reaction to the exploits being discussed are a direct reflection of the general apathy many have right now to 3.0 and EA's dev team. I'm not surprised how many people used the exploit since its been known for at least a month. To be honest the general player opinion I've seen has been - I'm ready to move on....just give me a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 GitGud, gear isn't everything it's all about skill. And the dumbest post in the thread goes to... ELITENZ! CONGRATULATION! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Looks like all the exploit threads were involved in a 14 car pileup..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocho-Quatro Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 That wont happen as much as you think. Mabey pugs work that way but most guilds wont. If you have a RL that picks somebody over you and using a few points in gear stats as the reason?...then your RL also exploited and you should find another guild. PuGs also choose tanks based on HP.... I wouldn't sweat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolaez Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 The need of asking for a prize just for acting like a decent human being never ceases to amaze me. How about you simply feel good about the fact that you didn't exploit? I mean, do you go to the clerk in the store and ask for cookies everytime you *don't* steal form the store? Lunacy I've seen this sentiment conveyed a couple times now. I think people are missing the point. It's not the reward that is important it's trying to find a positive spin on the punishment. Making the best out of a bad situation. I'd imagine some bans are unavoidable but it doesn't have to all be so negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I've seen this sentiment conveyed a couple times now. I think people are missing the point. It's not the reward that is important it's trying to find a positive spin on the punishment. Making the best out of a bad situation. I'd imagine some bans are unavoidable but it doesn't have to all be so negative. That's odd, I always see it as a negative when a company has to bride people to play their game. Do you buy a ****** car just cause you get a cool hat to go with it too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 So in all cases, I have to jump through more hoops for not exploiting, and you find nothing worng or unfair with this? What extra hoops do you have to jump through? Group finder is literally two clicks of the mouse. There are guild recruitment threads in almost every server forum and constantly in general chat on almost every planet. Starting your own group requires you to type into chat, maybe slightly more than just responding to the LFG message, but not overly so. And as I pointed out earlier, if you were to hypothetically lose a raid spot to someone who got their gear without the exploit, would that be unfair? Wouldn't you still have to jump through the same hoops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) What extra hoops do you have to jump through? Group finder is literally two clicks of the mouse. There are guild recruitment threads in almost every server forum and constantly in general chat on almost every planet. Starting your own group requires you to type into chat, maybe slightly more than just responding to the LFG message, but not overly so. And as I pointed out earlier, if you were to hypothetically lose a raid spot to someone who got their gear without the exploit, would that be unfair? Wouldn't you still have to jump through the same hoops? I'm speechless. No, really, this is my face (O.O) Edited January 8, 2015 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 And let's not even mention the groups that might be more likely to bring you along if there are several well geared (whether through exploiting or not) players already in the group. Plus, you'd probably get more gear, since they wouldn't need it. But we can't have the benefits of having more well geared people in the game to help gear up others taking away from the general sentiment of "burn them all" now, can we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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