LordArtemis Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I've spent about 15min sounding that word out in my head and I still can't quite get it... ARGA.....BARGLE. It is the stuff of dreams...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelenthir Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Not defending anyone, just saying to keep this in perspective. My apologies, but my post wasn't addressed to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elracor Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Just to add that the metrics involved would be a severe headache for the customer service team who struggle with the day to day tickets. According to BW they have around 1 million active accounts. Each and everyone of those accounts will have to be checked. Simply stating anyone who only has the last boss achievement is not enough, someone could have done the operation legit on one char but then exploited on the others, these accounts would have ALL bosses unlocked. So not only do we now have 1 million active accounts to check but each and every character on those accounts. Also removing gear from exploiters, someone has to look again at how each piece of gear was gained, what about the mats that were looted? do you recover those also? what if the exploiter sold the mats, does the person buying them get a refund as the exploited mats need to be removed. This is not something that can be automated, it needs someone to go in a check all these. The same goes for those asking for non-exploiters to be rewarded. I am not advocating the use of exploits but just trying to give a balanced view of the logistics required for BW to hand out bans and item removals. 1 million active accounts will already be a lot less once you sort out anyone who does not have that particular achievement. However, I agree on the severe headache, the CS team has a lot of work in front of them if they are to handle this issue properly. I just hope Eric Musco will learn a bit from the fairly-new Community Manager at Lord of the Rings Online, Frelorn: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?561241-Important-announcement-about-recent-exploits It has come to our attention that some players have been utilizing an exploit to change how powerful their characters are in the game world. Upon receiving reports of the issue we began an investigation. Due to the way our log system works we can definitively detect every account that is taking advantage of this exploit. Multiple accounts have already been banned. The exploit is not something that can be done in the normal operation of the game or “by accident” and is being done to deliberately cheat, therefore normal players should not be impacted by this issue. We are currently working on a fix. In the meantime anyone found to be using exploits in the game will be subject to disciplinary actions up to and including permanent account bans. If Musco had made a similar message before Xmas, I think that would have reduced the amount of exploiters during the Holidays by a massive margin, ultimately making it a lot easier for Bioware Customer Service to handle the exploits now. Edited January 8, 2015 by MFollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcan Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I just hope Eric Musco will learn a bit from the fairly-new Community Manager at Lord of the Rings Online, Frelorn: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?561241-Important-announcement-about-recent-exploits If Musco had made a similar message before Xmas, I think that would have reduced the amount of exploiters during the Holidays by a massive margin, ultimately making it a lot easier for Bioware Customer Service to handle the exploits now. I agree, this is 100% on BW. My entire guild refrained from doing this exploit even when we knew how. I'm very upset with how BW handled this situation. After the fact is too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcan Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 That is a nice idea, but it is not enough. At the very least, all gear and achievements people got due to this exploit need to be removed, and I would think a 1-2 week temp ban is definitely in order. Let them keep their achieves... it's a mark of shame IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 If that is true, I find that interesting. For me it's just extremely hard to believe that they could be so naive not to see that. It's the first thing I thought of when the feature was announced. Why? Because of many alts. If they want to do something about this, they should start thinking about how they can help people with lots of characters, especially now since you can only get decent gear from ops and nowhere else. I mean even for mods and enhancements you have to do ops since the comm gear is utter crap. I really wonder but I am thinking they need somebody with a bit more common sense who isn't a developer in the team to give a more objective outside look to their development path. With things like this I just get the feeling they are too close to their product to see how people react to new options. And yeh I always thought that ripping the mods out, putting them in legacy gear, which I earned and sending em over so I could pay again for ripping them out to put them in the shiney CM armour I bought was enough to make it a valid assumption this was intended. Not sure what to think about this now....but this is not a clear example of an exploit. Whatever has been going on here needs to be dealt with but crying for blood is kind of pointless here. It just needs to go away and become a thing of the past more than anything. And fix the ops and lag while they're at it, that will help. Well, I certainly can't speak to Bioware's views or reasons behind not acting on this, other than what they have already stated, but I could speculate that perhaps the cost involved in doing so mitigated the unfairness of the action. It is expensive to use the gear in this way. If I remember right, they were actually going to sanction folks accounts that were transferring crystals this way, but then decided to relent. It is only just recently, in one of the cantina chats I believe that they opened up about the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojomagro Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Again, the only people who may take an issue -- and rightly so -- are those who took advantage of the exploit repeatedly. Those who didn't have nothing to fear or at they very least, shouldn't be that bothered by those who get the hammer. The fact some feel the need to blame Bioware solely for this predicament is quite telling however. No, I don't want to have double digit fleet populations when I'm trying to form a PUG tuesday night. I play to have fun and raid not play find the raiders on planets. If you say fleet populations won't be affected by the possible bans you're incredibly naive. Just because the small sphere of friends you manage to keep didn't exploit doesn't mean the vast silent majority will be unaffected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 out of all the posts in this thread, my favourites are the people using random assumptions and percentages to figure out how many players are guilty of exploiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojomagro Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 This won't even the playerfield. True progression guilds take pride in following the ToS and tell their members to not exploit. Any guild found exploiting is removed from the progression list. If Bioware would have said, everyone could exploit because it's too late to take action, then yes I could agree with you, but there are still guilds that knew about the exploit and did not abuse it. Those guilds should not be at a disadvantage because they felt the need to follow the ToS. World progression died when Zorz gobbled up all the all-stars from the competitive guilds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Your second comment is a trap....If I say yes, I am derided for presenting a silly nonsensical answer. If I say no, you equate that as condoning argumentum ad absurdum. Either way it is a logical fallacy. I didn't intend for it to be a trap at all...I meant to demonstrate that superior gear is easily available from doing an Operation far easier. That seems "wrong" to me as well...so is that also an exploit? Yes, perhaps one can purchase armor that is equal to or comparable to the exploited armor....but that does not translate into acceptable behavior ipso facto, nor does a lack of prompt action on Bioware's part excuse a lack of proper judgement. True...I'm not excusing what happened, I was just trying to put this in perspective (not for you, just in general). At first, I was shocked this wasn't being fixed...but...when I went in to start spending my comms last night and I realized I was buying 198 and 192 items, it kinda hit me how minimal it actually was. Now, would I be upset if they did nothing? Of course not. Do I think it is wise to do nothing? No. They can choose to handle this matter as they see fit, and I am certainly not grabbing the pitchfork and torch...I am just stating it is probably best to discourage this kind of behavior. Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I asked in the other thread in a much longer post, and I'll ask again here. In what way has a non-exploiter's game experience been affected by the exploit? I've yet to see anyone actually explain it. Other than "because it's cheating and cheating is bad." For a more in depth post, see the other thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruceme Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) they could have shut the exploit(s) down without hard coding. instead they left a pile of cash sitting out in the open for a month and said nothing. so now they want to punish people for something they could have prevented. the Devs should not use the Playerbase as a scapegoat. completely irresponsible. All to happy to update the Cartel market each week, but couldnt get around to blocking a blockable exploit. Edited January 8, 2015 by Bruceme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWookiee Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I hate to burst everyone's bubble claiming that if the Devs do nothing it will hurt their credibility, but the fact is, their credibility went out the window long ago on punishment for exploits. It is their inaction that set the precedent long ago by not taking action on win traders, previous comm bugs, conquest point exploits, previous ops bugs, etc. The fact of the matter is that had BW/EA punished these form the start and been consistent, then this exploit would have probably been very small and easily contained due to players knowing the penalty and any actions would be just. Since they haven't done this in the past, they set a bad precedent of not punishing and let the exploit become widespread enough that it could have a serious impact the game. Bottom line is, BW/EA is between a rock and a hard place on this one due to their poor management of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 they should have shut the exploit(s) down without hard coding. instead they left a pile of cash sitting out in the open for a month and said nothing. so now they want to punish people for something they could have prevented. the Devs should not use the Playerbase as a scapegoat. completely irresponsible. All to happy to update the Cartel market each week, but couldnt get around to blocking a blockable exploit. The Cartel Market can be updated at will without the servers coming down. Before going on vacation, someone from Bioware -- presumably the two interns and the cat -- instructed the janitor on how to do it. Duh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 out of all the posts in this thread, my favourites are the people using random assumptions and percentages to figure out how many players are guilty of exploiting. I'm going to assume that 50% will not care about that and 90% will now read this and chuckle silently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Again, the only people who may take an issue -- and rightly so -- are those who took advantage of the exploit repeatedly. Those who didn't have nothing to fear or at they very least, shouldn't be that bothered by those who get the hammer. The fact some feel the need to blame Bioware solely for this predicament is quite telling however.i dunno if i log on next week and see that only 15 people are in fleet because everyone was banned i'd have a problem with that. its a multiplayer game...i need other people to play it too. and while pointing the finger at bw might be a method of self-serving denial and justification, the fact remains that bw did nothing to stop this exploit when they found out about it and their inaction led to it going viral. i cant blame bw for missing this but i can certainly blame them for doing nothing about it in a prompt manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captpickles Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 This all the way! Stop begging for money literally. I get it we were good when other people were bad the bad people should be punished harshly enough that no one wants to be bad again not give us stuff that can take away from this games income. It hurts them twice when they hand out free money. Don't get me wrong give away free money people become more comfortable using the money and it encourages more spending if they have a little left over. I get that but let's be honest EA is hovering over BWs shoulder and asking why they're wasting all this money. Now if they gave us a cosmetic item that essentially would be a CM item normally but it's an exclusive club for loyal players which hey, that's what mmo players want special gear that no one else has. Shoot throw in the vip wristband for these people also so we can literally all hang out upstairs. With this you can weed out plplayers who cheated and who didn't. We shouldn't care about cheaters joining ques, they broke the rules they are second class players. LOL... you new here ? They will NOT do anything to those who took advantage. No punishment will be dealt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulgarMercurius Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Again, the only people who can possibly take an issue with this are the same ones who took advantage of it. It is clear on which side of the fence you reside. I don't think the recent riots in the states were justifiable. I must have shot a black man. Your method of argumentation is often far out to left field and full of inflammatory bait. You are boring, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The message to the rest of us is "anything goes" Seriously, who cares if they are special snowflakes, or subs. You may loose a few subs but how much more will you lose if you lose your credibility? They cheated, they knew it, and now they are all scrambling for a reduced sentence. Ban Ban Ban and good riddance. It would be nice to get rid of a large chunk of players. Hopefully they do ban everyone and it causes the endgame community to become severely fractured and the game dies. I'd finally be free from my SWTOR addiction so yes, ban them all and let this game die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Well, I certainly can't speak to Bioware's views or reasons behind not acting on this, other than what they have already stated, but I could speculate that perhaps the cost involved in doing so mitigated the unfairness of the action. It is expensive to use the gear in this way. If I remember right, they were actually going to sanction folks accounts that were transferring crystals this way, but then decided to relent. It is only just recently, in one of the cantina chats I believe that they opened up about the issue. I do remember the bit about the crystals.. It wasn't transferring crystals by itself but people unlocking a rare crystal on one character in their collection and making lots of copies so you could send those to alts without using the account unlock for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Simple and easy. If you can determine who uses the exploit.. give everyone ELSE 1500cc /closed You should give me 1500cc for reading this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Read what you wrote. Did you spot the contradiction in your reasoning? Perhaps you are the one that needs to reread what I wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I do remember the bit about the crystals.. It wasn't transferring crystals by itself but people unlocking a rare crystal on one character in their collection and making lots of copies so you could send those to alts without using the account unlock for it. Wait, doing that was bad? Hell, I've been doing it for a long time. Ban me please Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuMoraf Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 LOL... you new here ? They will NOT do anything to those who took advantage. No punishment will be dealt. Haha believe me I know how my post sounds but I was more posting this for the forum readers that can dream with me lol. Been here since launch I know nothing like this will happen shoot a more realistic outcome would be BW giving exploits CCs and ask them nicely to destroy they're cheated gear. I was having the discussion for the sake of discussion not eexpecting anything to actually happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I didn't intend for it to be a trap at all...I meant to demonstrate that superior gear is easily available from doing an Operation far easier. That seems "wrong" to me as well...so is that also an exploit? I've pointed out that this is false on page 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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