Why Are Dye Modules Destroyed Upon Removal?

[EnkiduNineEight]

If anything, I would like to see BioWare remove the dyes from the cartel market. Leave the Player Craftable Recipes in the game but also include vendors for the former cartel market dyes.

 

Charge for the dyes on a demand based system, so that dye prices fluctuate over time as demand increases while setting floors for some 'desirable' dyes so they will never drop below a certain price point.

 

In this way, dyes do become a true credit sink in game, which is needed.

 

It would likely be a good thing to leave the dyes as consumables but charge say 1 million from a dye vendor for Black on Black.

 

If they are worried about revenue stream, make dyes a subscriber only option. Its purely cosmetic so the f2p players game experience is not affected in the least by not being able to dye equipment. I would wager that for the people it is important to, they are either already providing money to EA/BioWare as a sub and frequent CM purchaser or would be willing to be.

Edited January 8, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[Anzel]

Dye modules should not be destroyed upon removal just like every other mod. They should cost 0 credits to remove as should every other mod.

[NSStember]

I think a good work around for this that would help make Artificers feel like they can do more, is give them a recipe called "Dye Extractor". There would be three versions of this Dye Extractor, one for extracting green (common) dyes, one for blue (rare) dyes, and another for purple (ultra rare) dyes. This way if you wanted to preserve a dye you'd still need a "consumable", and would boost the economy by giving the Artificers something else to do.

[Nitblade]

Well, for me if it can't be unlocked for the whole account, I am not sinking a single CC on it.

Want me to use CC on this BW knows what to do.

They won't do it though, management likes tooo much nickel & diming us to heck.

[Andryah]

You can't use the "hurts game play" or "creates incentive to play" arguments from a cash shop purchased item that by its very existence hurts game play and does nothing to coerce a player into playing the game.

 

Real life cash is the LEAST likely path to the majority of the gear dyes in this game. Even those that are sold via the CM for cartel coins are by no means required (nor IMO the best dyes either for these gear sets) nor is real life cash required. Subs collectively are given on the order of 250 million cartel coins every month at no additional cost to the players. In fact, a good number of subscribers freely admit that they use their free coins to convert to credits via cartel market purchases that they in turn resell on the GTN for credits (and rare dyes are one item that is commonly used, because they are both rare and desired by some).

 

Sure.. some people cannot or will not budget their free pool of cartel coins and end up buying coins.... but that is their choice and in no way is forced upon them in any way. Nor is it required in order to get those monochrome dyes some people have a craving for. There are always plenty for sale on the GTN for in game credits.

 

I think the real core issue here is that some people crave the super rare monochrome dyes, but do not value them accordingly. In other words... it's a welfare mind set.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Andryah

[Grayseven]

Real life cash is the LEAST likely path to the majority of the gear dyes in this game. Even those that are sold via the CM for cartel coins are by no means required (nor IMO the best dyes either for these gear sets) nor is real life cash required. Subs collectively are given on the order of 250 million cartel coins every month at no additional cost to the players. In fact, a good number of subscribers freely admit that they use their free coins to convert to credits via cartel market purchases that they in turn resell on the GTN for credits (and rare dyes are one item that is commonly used, because they are both rare and desired by some).

 

Sure.. some people cannot or will not budget their free pool of cartel coins and end up buying coins.... but that is their choice and in no way is forced upon them in any way. Nor is it required in order to get those monochrome dyes some people have a craving for. There are always plenty for sale on the GTN for in game credits.

 

I think the real core issue here is that some people crave the super rare monochrome dyes, but do not value them accordingly. In other words... it's a welfare mind set.

 

I don't believe as you do on this. Those "super rare dyes" are only that way because EA/BW has decided that they will be. It's no coincidence that those super rare dyes are also some of the most desired colors, so it is obvious that the intent by EA/BW is to create an artificial rarity to a cosmetic item not to enhance game play but to drive sales of dye gambling packs and the infrequent "special sales".

 

If those desired colors were more reasonably obtainable, and if the system allowed more customization by adding slots for primary, secondary and tertiary colors, I believe they would see more sales than the current system sees.

 

And even for dyes sold on the GTN, there has to have been a buyer at some point. Someone had to pony up real cash in order to either buy the dye outright or to buy endless dye gambling packs in order to hit on the super rares gamers desire. I myself use the 6 month sub model and a security key which means I see 700 CC a month as part of my sub. In two months I can get 7 dye gambling packs, in three months I can have enough saved to pay the 2000 CC for the super rares when they are offered for direct sale. Considering the current GTN prices on those dyes, I can easily earn more credits in game in that time period and use my sub CC for other things I may also want. While there may be some who save their CC to buy one high value item like the Black/black or White/white dyes, I feel I can safely assume most of those available on the GTN come from actual cash purchases instead of monthly stipend purchases.

 

Now look at it in a different manner. If the three dye slots are added and primary dyes are sold directly through the CM and the secondary and tertiary dyes are given to Artifice to craft, and the cost of the primary dyes are all made the same cost as the current dye kits (200 CC or almost 2 USD), players would be more apt to spend CC on those dyes and do so more often since they haven't made a huge investment in a specific look.

 

Making it cheaper to change a characters appearance would remove the feeling most players get that once they've made a decision, they are stuck with it because too much investment was made. Dyes should still be single use consumables, it is the system that needs changed to allow players to more easily customize without feeling forced into keeping the customization they choose. More freedom would fuel more sales.

[Tsillah]

I don't believe as you do on this. Those "super rare dyes" are only that way because EA/BW has decided that they will be. It's no coincidence that those super rare dyes are also some of the most desired colors, so it is obvious that the intent by EA/BW is to create an artificial rarity to a cosmetic item not to enhance game play but to drive sales of dye gambling packs and the infrequent "special sales".

 

All rarity in computer games is artificial.

 

The whole game world is artificial. I guess this is a shock to you. Take a moment.

 

Of course they want to generate sales. However, rarity also means you have to do something for it. Either fork over cash, for which most people work, or you have to generate credits in game. The interesting thing about this, is that because something is more difficult to get and requires effort/investment, it feels like an achievement on some level to acquire it. This enhances the feeling of getting what you want and feel good about it.

 

There are exceptions and there are limits to how far people are willing to go in general, but it's a basic mechanic. It just doesn't feel special if everybody can easily get something. We all tend to want to be special (again there are exceptions).

[Grayseven]

All rarity in computer games is artificial.

 

The whole game world is artificial. I guess this is a shock to you. Take a moment.

 

Of course they want to generate sales. However, rarity also means you have to do something for it. Either fork over cash, for which most people work, or you have to generate credits in game. The interesting thing about this, is that because something is more difficult to get and requires effort/investment, it feels like an achievement on some level to acquire it. This enhances the feeling of getting what you want and feel good about it.

 

There are exceptions and there are limits to how far people are willing to go in general, but it's a basic mechanic. It just doesn't feel special if everybody can easily get something. We all tend to want to be special (again there are exceptions).

 

No kidding, you think? If you are going to respond, do so in a way that doesn't make you sound like a troll..

 

Rarity in CM market items does not mean you have to "do something for it". That is solely the purview of in game activities such as operations and the like. In a cash market, you simply pay cash and having artificial rarity in that instance is actually more harmful than helpful.

 

No one "feels good" about dropping 20 bucks on a cosmetic dye. There isn't anything to feel good about. Now, were I to defeat a difficult mob or solve a puzzle to get said dye, I might feel good about it. I feel a sense of accomplishment when I can get reputation vendor dyes because I took the steps necessary in game to achieve that dye. I feel no sense of accomplishment when I buy from the CM.

 

Reducing that artificial rarity and opening up to all players the ability to purchase customization more cheaply would fuel more purchases. This has been a common fact of business for a while now since you earn more if 20 people pay two bucks than if one person pays 20 bucks.

 

Character customization drives investment into said character. Put the ability to customize to far out of reach or make the hoops more effort than it is worth and you reduce the investment. Cash marketing of appearance is a great way to create revenue, but it should never be done in a way that stymies or stagnates customization.

[Tolunart]

No one "feels good" about dropping 20 bucks on a cosmetic dye. There isn't anything to feel good about. Now, were I to defeat a difficult mob or solve a puzzle to get said dye, I might feel good about it. I feel a sense of accomplishment when I can get reputation vendor dyes because I took the steps necessary in game to achieve that dye. I feel no sense of accomplishment when I buy from the CM.

 

Not everyone lives on the same budget. $20 could be a week's wages for one person, or 1/10th of what another spends on a Friday night. The higher prices mean the items remain exclusive, and some people like that running around in black/black or black/white robes sets them apart from the crowd. Games like this attract a certain percentage of "whales" or players with a lot of disposable income to play with, who don't mind dropping hundreds or even thousands of dollars to outfit their toons the way they want.

 

This is the target market for those items, not the average sub player or penny-pinching preferred member.

[Grayseven]

Not everyone lives on the same budget. $20 could be a week's wages for one person, or 1/10th of what another spends on a Friday night. The higher prices mean the items remain exclusive, and some people like that running around in black/black or black/white robes sets them apart from the crowd. Games like this attract a certain percentage of "whales" or players with a lot of disposable income to play with, who don't mind dropping hundreds or even thousands of dollars to outfit their toons the way they want.

 

This is the target market for those items, not the average sub player or penny-pinching preferred member.

 

One whale is not worth 20 normal folks when it comes to things like this. Exclusivity should remain the purview of in game activities and not the cash market.

 

I'm certain the majority of players fall into the "non-whale" category and pricing items so that they are easily in reach of the majority will fuel more sales than having a handful of whales purchasing the same item.

 

Cheaper also means players would be willing to change with more frequency than they do now, fueling repeat sales as players don't feel trapped into a specific look because they spent so much cash on a consumable item.

 

In other words, the target market needs to be those average sub players and not the rare whale.

[Tsillah]

No kidding, you think? If you are going to respond, do so in a way that doesn't make you sound like a troll..

 

Please do not try to insult me because you simply do not allow other people to have another opinion. You are neither God nor Einstein so I do not accept your opinion as the truth in any shape or form. I simply have a different opinion.

 

Rarity in CM market items does not mean you have to "do something for it". That is solely the purview of in game activities such as operations and the like. In a cash market, you simply pay cash and having artificial rarity in that instance is actually more harmful than helpful.

 

I explained how it involves doing something for it. Ignoring that doesn't change that.

 

Also you are incorrect because these items find themselves onto the GTN where they can be bought for in game earned credits. You make these credits by in game activities. In fact all in game credits originate from in game activities. A high price in the CM ensures rarity on the GTN.

 

The idea that it's "solely the purview of in game activities" is an outdated opinion and not a fact.

 

No one "feels good" about dropping 20 bucks on a cosmetic dye. There isn't anything to feel good about. Now, were I to defeat a difficult mob or solve a puzzle to get said dye, I might feel good about it. I feel a sense of accomplishment when I can get reputation vendor dyes because I took the steps necessary in game to achieve that dye. I feel no sense of accomplishment when I buy from the CM.

 

Again your opinion and don't forget it's not just about buying it from the CM. When someone spend 2000 CC on a black dye to sell it in game for 5 million or whatever, he might feel good about that. A person who buys it from the CM who gets his armour dyed black or white, knowing that not many people have this, might feel good about that. The person who doesn't want to spend the CC and saves credits by doing in game activities might feel good about achieving that.

 

For you to say that No one can feel good about this is just you imposing your views on the entire world.

 

Reducing that artificial rarity and opening up to all players the ability to purchase customization more cheaply would fuel more purchases. This has been a common fact of business for a while now since you earn more if 20 people pay two bucks than if one person pays 20 bucks.

 

As I said the whole game is artificial. Items that drop in game or are earned in game are also subject to artificial rarity so this is a non argument.

 

Also your sales argument is faulty because it's not just about maximizing sales. Rarity in game is also a factor.

 

Character customization drives investment into said character. Put the ability to customize to far out of reach or make the hoops more effort than it is worth and you reduce the investment. Cash marketing of appearance is a great way to create revenue, but it should never be done in a way that stymies or stagnates customization.

 

Investment adds value. Choice simply gives you more ways to invest. But if you make all the choices too easy it loses value.

 

Things you earn always have more value because you invested into it. You do not want to spend 20 bucks because you think it's too expensive. Fair enough but that is because that money has a certain value. So the investment is too high. So you have the alternative to buy it in game with credits for millions. This might also be too high.

 

However, if black and white dyes were easy to get and everybody walked around in the same cool armour all dyed black we'd look like a bunch of idiots together and it would lose value because that's also how humans work. On the one hand we all want to belong to something, on the other hand we want to be individuals.

 

Don't like what I have to say? That's ok, but stop throwing words like troll at me simply because you cannot fathom someone having another opinion. That's just bad form.

[Andryah]

No one "feels good" about dropping 20 bucks on a cosmetic dye. There isn't anything to feel good about. Now, were I to defeat a difficult mob or solve a puzzle to get said dye, I might feel good about it. I feel a sense of accomplishment when I can get reputation vendor dyes because I took the steps necessary in game to achieve that dye. I feel no sense of accomplishment when I buy from the CM.

 

I have seen enough players in the forum over the last two years flaunt their spending on CCs to know that No one "feels good" about dropping 20 bucks on a cosmetic dye = an absolute statement = hyperbole-2-serve-an-agenda.

 

I get that you personally do not feel good about it. But that is you. And I understand that some people will agree with you. But to make statements of absolutes completely undermines the points you are trying to make.

 

Personally, I have probably on the order of 600 CM dyes in storage across my account. This includes some of the monochrome ones everyone seems to lust after, but most are simply the ramdoms from Cartel Packs + Crafteds. AND.. you know what.. I never paid CCs for any of them. I farmed them off the GTN when I saw them being sold for under fair market prices.

 

The reasons I have so many is: A) I like them and may use them at some point. B) they are one of the most profitable long term resale items for the GTN, precisely because people dump them on the market when they get them from random packs and yet are in high demand later when the packs are retired. (the monochromes, generally speaking, are not that profitable to farm on the GTN... but I do scoop up a few every now and then when I see them below established market rates).

 

[keep in mind.. most CM dyes are both inexpensive and from random drops from packs].

 

You and I are in agreement that neither of us would pay real money for dyes. Where we disagree is that you are fixated on this being the only way to get them. I know from personal experience that this is not the case at all.

 

As a player community, I recognize that as with many things about any MMO, we are not all going to agree. You want the system changed to suit your personal sensibilities.. whereas I have figured out how to work the existing system to meet all my dye needs, and not spend any actual additional real money doing so. Something I actually do with many aspects of any MMO I play .... figure out the system and then work it to my personal tastes and advantage. What I don't do is demand that the MMO be changed to match my personal tastes and needs... BECAUSE I understand I am simply one in a million in the playerbase. Clearly, if these dyes were as anathema as some players attempt to prosecute in the forum... then the dyes would not sell and Bioware would heavily discount them or make them available in other ways.

 

All that said... as I have stated before... the one improvement that I feel is worth dev effort is to make primary, secondary, and tertiary textures each have their own dye slots.... even though I know there will be some players that would use the freedom to dress up in carnival clown suit colors.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Andryah

[Grayseven]

Please do not try to insult me because you simply do not allow other people to have another opinion. You are neither God nor Einstein so I do not accept your opinion as the truth in any shape or form. I simply have a different opinion.

 

 

 

I explained how it involves doing something for it. Ignoring that doesn't change that.

 

Also you are incorrect because these items find themselves onto the GTN where they can be bought for in game earned credits. You make these credits by in game activities. In fact all in game credits originate from in game activities. A high price in the CM ensures rarity on the GTN.

 

The idea that it's "solely the purview of in game activities" is an outdated opinion and not a fact.

 

 

 

Again your opinion and don't forget it's not just about buying it from the CM. When someone spend 2000 CC on a black dye to sell it in game for 5 million or whatever, he might feel good about that. A person who buys it from the CM who gets his armour dyed black or white, knowing that not many people have this, might feel good about that. The person who doesn't want to spend the CC and saves credits by doing in game activities might feel good about achieving that.

 

For you to say that No one can feel good about this is just you imposing your views on the entire world.

 

 

 

As I said the whole game is artificial. Items that drop in game or are earned in game are also subject to artificial rarity so this is a non argument.

 

Also your sales argument is faulty because it's not just about maximizing sales. Rarity in game is also a factor.

 

 

 

Investment adds value. Choice simply gives you more ways to invest. But if you make all the choices too easy it loses value.

 

Things you earn always have more value because you invested into it. You do not want to spend 20 bucks because you think it's too expensive. Fair enough but that is because that money has a certain value. So the investment is too high. So you have the alternative to buy it in game with credits for millions. This might also be too high.

 

However, if black and white dyes were easy to get and everybody walked around in the same cool armour all dyed black we'd look like a bunch of idiots together and it would lose value because that's also how humans work. On the one hand we all want to belong to something, on the other hand we want to be individuals.

 

Don't like what I have to say? That's ok, but stop throwing words like troll at me simply because you cannot fathom someone having another opinion. That's just bad form.

 

When you start your rebuttal with an insult, you are trolling. Don't sugar coat it. If you want to debate, that's fine, but don't try to insult someones intelligence and then act high and mighty about it.

 

Forums are, by their nature, nothing but opinions. I have never stated anything as fact except for the common business facts that have been proven throughout the history of capitalism. Everything I, you or anyone else posts is nothing but opinion. If you want to debate, debate the topic and not what constitutes opinion.

 

Earning credits may be your idea of "doing something for it", but it is not mine. Credits are earned doing anything, so acting as if earning credits is somehow equivalent of beating a NiM operation is ludicrous.

 

I'd like to see someone get 5 million for a black/black dye. Right now, I can pick one up for less than 2 million which takes very little effort to achieve for anyone who knows anything about this game. And there are a number of them to choose from. That isn't the point of my posts either.

 

And yes, we all know that this artificial game is all artificial...nice way to fixate on a non-subject. If you take the use of the term artificial out of context, you can make it say anything you want. In the case of the actual topic of my posts, the use of artificial rarity involves EA/BW using cash cost and the RNG to set the rarity of an item. In the case of appearance items like dyes, it makes no sense. When applied to in game achieved items it fuels incentive to strive towards those items.

 

You seem stuck in the "special snowflake syndrome" where you believe everyone running around in black/black dyes are somehow special because they either got lucky with a dye gambling pack or dropped 20 USD on the item and that allowing people unfettered access to the customization of their choice somehow reduces the specialness. Newsflash, there are already a ton of players running around looking like one another, allowing more black/black dyes won't change anything.

 

Rarity is not the factor you believe it is when it comes to customization. Sure, I can see the reasoning behind making various gambling pack armor sets or mounts rare since that fuels increased sales of those packs through RNG. I can see setting the rarity of black/black and similar desirable dyes in the gambling packs in the same manner. What I can not see is selling those most desired color combinations for 20 USD where only a few people will buy them when setting the price at a much lower level would fuel more income...at the cost of a few players losing their ill perceived "specialness".

 

If EA/BW wanted players to be more invested in their characters through customization, they would make it easier for players to customize, not harder.

 

Another fact. Rarity of in game achieved items fuels action, rarity of CM items fuel sales...but only to a point. The customization system as it currently stands fuels sales, but standard business models for consumable products (in real life, mind you) show that you can earn more selling many for a lower price than a few at a higher price. This is what drives manufacturers to try to produce items cheaper. Now, in a game where manufacturing is a simple key-click you have to look at other factors. Like an items demand for example. I think we can all agree that the various dyes in blacks and whites have a high demand. So why then should those high demand items be gated through a high price? Having more of them available has no negative game effect, nor does making it easier for people to change their dyes. But when you spend 20 bucks or 2 million in game credits on a consumable you are less apt to change it out for something else should the mood grab you. But if you spent 2 bucks on it, you probably wouldn't think twice about switching it out for something else at a later time.

 

This has nothing to do with how everyone else looks. It has to do with how the individual character looks. I'm sure there are a few people out there who feel that if anyone looks just like them it would be the end of the world but for most of us we only care about how we look to ourselves without any care as to whether or not there is someone else out there who looks similar.

 

I don't often buy CC. When I do it is because I have some extra cash and I have something in the CM in mind when I buy them. But I've never bought dyes since it is too easy to get them via the GTN or to craft them personally. The few Black/black, white/white or other rare and desirable combos I have I've gotten through direct GTN buys or through buying cheap dye gambling packs off the GTN. Were the system different I might spend my monthly stipend directly on dyes in the CM, but not now when I can get much more use and value out of those stipend CC through other purchases.

 

My entire stance is that the current system stifles customization and that reduced prices would actually increase revenue by encouraging more players to take advantage of it more often. I don't care about anything else.

[wilsonstone]

Investment adds value. Choice simply gives you more ways to invest. But if you make all the choices too easy it loses value.

 

Things you earn always have more value because you invested into it. You do not want to spend 20 bucks because you think it's too expensive. Fair enough but that is because that money has a certain value. So the investment is too high. So you have the alternative to buy it in game with credits for millions. This might also be too high.

 

However, if black and white dyes were easy to get and everybody walked around in the same cool armour all dyed black we'd look like a bunch of idiots together and it would lose value because that's also how humans work. On the one hand we all want to belong to something, on the other hand we want to be individuals.

 

Don't like what I have to say? That's ok, but stop throwing words like troll at me simply because you cannot fathom someone having another opinion. That's just bad form.

 

I just checked on the GTN and saw that the majority of dye modules on sale there now are going for under 100,000 credits. They aren't that expensive in the scheme of things. Sure some rare ones cost 300,000 credits or more, but I'm sure someone with that many credits to spare will pick them up. If not the seller will probably lower the cost until it does sell.

 

They aren't so difficult to get and don't need to be reusable.

[calypsissmexy]

*grr I'm rite and you are woefully wrong*

 

Nah.

5char

[Tsillah]

I just checked on the GTN and saw that the majority of dye modules on sale there now are going for under 100,000 credits. They aren't that expensive in the scheme of things. Sure some rare ones cost 300,000 credits or more, but I'm sure someone with that many credits to spare will pick them up. If not the seller will probably lower the cost until it does sell.

 

They aren't so difficult to get and don't need to be reusable.

 

Not sure what you mean. I agree with this.

 

I was speaking of colours like black and white dyes that are more expensive but I am ok with that.

[Tsillah]

When you start your rebuttal with an insult, you are trolling. Don't sugar coat it. If you want to debate, that's fine, but don't try to insult someones intelligence and then act high and mighty about it.

 

It wasn't a rebuttal. It was a simple reply. The second sentence had some sarcasm in it, that much was clear. Feel free to look up trolling and sarcasm and compare the two definitions. Trolling is just provoking people for the sake of provocation. That was certainly not what I was doing.

 

You don't get how other people can experience things differently, but let's be honest: it's all about you, not about some made up majority. You want the dyes for in game activities and not spend real cash on it. I get that but don't hide behind people you don't know and make it sound like most people are like you. You can't know that without actual data.

 

So why not do some activities in game and make the credits to buy it off the gtn? If you don't really by CC why worry about it. They are on the GTN that's all you need to know. A few million too rich for you is it? Ah so also in game you wanna do nothing for it or what? Should be a reward for doing a 5-minute daily perhaps? And most dyes aren't that expensive, just a handful at most.

 

My entire stance is that the current system stifles MY customization and that reduced prices would actually increase revenue by encouraging more players to take advantage of it more often (which is bull **** but it gives my opinion some strength). I don't actually care about ANYONE else.

 

There fixed it for you.

 

Just stop talking about no one, everyone, or the majority of players and bring it back to yourself. I am pretty sure BW have a good idea how to make their CM successful and as you don't buy CC much you are clearly not the target audience.

 

What I get from what you write is that you want something that you're not getting. That's fair enough, but stop hiding behind these fake majorities you like to conjure up.

 

In 3.0 we got 18 new dye schematics that are crafteable. Surely there are lots of colours that can be crafted and many that are quite cheap. You just don't want to do what it takes in or out of the game, it doesn't matter, to get them. Instant gratification comes at a price and that's a good thing by itself.

[wilsonstone]

Not sure what you mean. I agree with this.

 

I was speaking of colours like black and white dyes that are more expensive but I am ok with that.

 

That is what I was saying, I guess I did so badly. My point was that most dyes aren't super-expensive. Black and white dye modules may be expensive but they're rare. Sorry for the confusion.

[Tsillah]

That is what I was saying, I guess I did so badly. My point was that most dyes aren't super-expensive. Black and white dye modules may be expensive but they're rare. Sorry for the confusion.

 

No worries mate.

 

And you are exactly right. Most of the dyes are easy to get either via the gtn or crafting so it's not a big problem.

 

Sure, if people want everything in black or white, yeh then it gets more expensive, but surely part of the fun is working towards something and just having everything you want the moment you want it? Some things take some time or effort and that's a good thing I think.

 

If dyes weren't destroyed it would destroy the market for dyes because people would only need to buy them once and keep reusing them. That's bad for the in game economy.

[Andryah]

If dyes weren't destroyed it would destroy the market for dyes because people would only need to buy them once and keep reusing them. That's bad for the in game economy.

 

/Agree.

 

Dyes carry no stats.. so they are not like other mods where people want to pop them and move them around all the time for actual game play functionality. They do not help with leveling or end game, they are simply for cosmetics (not saying cosmetics are not important to some players... just that they are not necessary to play the game effectively). So the whole "it's a gear mod, treat it like other gear mods" is a false equivalence.

 

Only a few super rare dyes fall into the category of being worth pulling (if you could). And frankly, that small handful of dyes are desirable precisely because they are super rare and stereotypical good-guy/bad-guy color schemes.

 

This ongoing cry-fest over dyes being consumables is about people wanting the stereotyped colors.... but wanting them at normal dye color prices. A very odd sort of welfare position for an MMO IMO.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Andryah

[Grayseven]

It wasn't a rebuttal. It was a simple reply. The second sentence had some sarcasm in it, that much was clear. Feel free to look up trolling and sarcasm and compare the two definitions. Trolling is just provoking people for the sake of provocation. That was certainly not what I was doing.

 

You don't get how other people can experience things differently, but let's be honest: it's all about you, not about some made up majority. You want the dyes for in game activities and not spend real cash on it. I get that but don't hide behind people you don't know and make it sound like most people are like you. You can't know that without actual data.

 

You are either ignorant and not actually reading and comprehending my posts or you are purposefully misrepresenting them and actually trolling. I'm not sure which at the moment but I'm leaning towards the latter.

 

It isn't about me, no matter how much you say it is. Since I haven't put words into your mouth I have to assume further that you are doing nothing but trolling instead of actually debating.

 

Let me put it in the simplest terms possible so as to not confuse you: I believe dyes should be consumable and not reuseable. I believe that making dyes freely available at a low price will fuel customization and revenue because more people will use a system where they can get exactly what they want without paying exorbitant amount and without the RNG chance. I believe they will use such a system more often since they have a lower investment in their choice and are more apt to change it when the whim arises.

 

So why not do some activities in game and make the credits to buy it off the gtn? If you don't really by CC why worry about it. They are on the GTN that's all you need to know. A few million too rich for you is it? Ah so also in game you wanna do nothing for it or what? Should be a reward for doing a 5-minute daily perhaps? And most dyes aren't that expensive, just a handful at most.

 

I make millions of credits easily in a single day whenever I need credits. I do buy things I want off the GTN, but for CC items someone had to pay cash for them. That isn't what any of these posts are about, but again you fixate on your view of the situation instead of actually comprehending what is being said. If you want to make up stuff to further your own ignorance, keep on. Otherwise, read and comprehend.

 

There fixed it for you.

 

No, you fixed it for you because you can't comprehend the conversation.

 

Just stop talking about no one, everyone, or the majority of players and bring it back to yourself. I am pretty sure BW have a good idea how to make their CM successful and as you don't buy CC much you are clearly not the target audience.

 

What I get from what you write is that you want something that you're not getting. That's fair enough, but stop hiding behind these fake majorities you like to conjure up.

 

In 3.0 we got 18 new dye schematics that are crafteable. Surely there are lots of colours that can be crafted and many that are quite cheap. You just don't want to do what it takes in or out of the game, it doesn't matter, to get them. Instant gratification comes at a price and that's a good thing by itself.

 

Sigh...it's so sad that once again instead of debating, you chose to attack. That can go both ways. How about you actually go back and read each one of my posts on this subject slowly so you can comprehend and then you can come back and apologize for misunderstanding everything said and then putting words into my mouth in order to...well, I'm not really sure what you are trying to do. It sure isn't debate, so I'm guessing you have other motives.

 

You've made many assumptions, so let me break them for you. I have all the available dyes for crafters. I've gotten the rep and paid the cash for them all. I've crafted many of them, some of which are selling quite well. I've ever been a proponent of doing to achieve instead of buying to achieve. I'd like nothing better than to see dyes and appearance modifications removed completely from the CM and become crafted, but since that isn't going to happen I'd be happy just to see colors available to purchase directly for one low price regardless of color instead of relying on RNG dye gambling packs or the occasional 20 USD sale of them.

 

If you can't comprehend that, just let me know and I'll add you to my ignore list since it would then be obvious that you aren't worth my time.

[Tolunart]

One whale is not worth 20 normal folks when it comes to things like this. Exclusivity should remain the purview of in game activities and not the cash market.

 

I'm certain the majority of players fall into the "non-whale" category and pricing items so that they are easily in reach of the majority will fuel more sales than having a handful of whales purchasing the same item.

 

Cheaper also means players would be willing to change with more frequency than they do now, fueling repeat sales as players don't feel trapped into a specific look because they spent so much cash on a consumable item.

 

In other words, the target market needs to be those average sub players and not the rare whale.

 

In your opinion. Obviously the marketing guys at EA disagree.

 

The "free to play" games genre in general is all about the whales. The 1,000,000 cheapskate players who never spend a dime on the game are irrelevant, it's attracting the attention of the 10,000 players with itchy credit cards that make the game profitable.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Tolunart

[discosoc]

Money sink.

 

Selling singe use dyes for 2000cc (and people actually paying that much for them) is frankly psychotic. I won't pay that unless it is a legacy unlock or craft schematic. EVER.

 

And the only MMO to have this stupid restriction.

 

People don't pay it for the dye. They pay it for the several million credits they get selling it. It's just a "legal" way to purchase credits, and probably a better method than buying a ton of packs hoping to land a rare mount or something.

[BrianDavion]

it's worth noting that dyes are listed as CM items on the GTN.