DethlaHadyn Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 No I don't think it's important it was never important before now and it isn't now. Any competent PvPer can perfrom just as well without it. I've mained a VG since launch so don't question what I know about it. 30m range is just unnecessary and unwarranted. But still you are missing the point of how some people are viewing the current range that AP has, like it's the root of all the "burst" problems... like I don't even see how that debate can be taken seriously at all. It's hilarious though, and I agree that we will ALL leave it right here. You said it yourself, You'll grapple your target in close and probably use a combination of heavy hitters, that may not even include Railshot or Thermal Detonator. The current complaints from players of other classes, is not those two, it's from Energy Burst and from Shoulder Cannon. That is why we should point the combat team in the right direction by allowing us to retain the current 3.0 mechanics, but simply re-distribute the ways our dps is applied. Once again.. a suggestion would be reduce the upfront base damage from Energy Burst and Shoulder Cannon (25%) and re-distribute that reduction to increase our Retractable Blade and it's bleeds. No mechanics are tinkered with, and our overall damage potential stays the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 This reinforces my opinion that VG/PT are the stupidest players in the game. I mean, go look at the Sorc forums. The assassin forums. See any 'how do we nerf our class' threads? When the bat comes only for us, (because we are begging for it) I'm going to laugh. Anyone who thinks we're the problem with PVP needs to actually try to play ranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DethlaHadyn Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 This reinforces my opinion that VG/PT are the stupidest players in the game. I mean, go look at the Sorc forums. The assassin forums. See any 'how do we nerf our class' threads? When the bat comes only for us, (because we are begging for it) I'm going to laugh. Anyone who thinks we're the problem with PVP needs to actually try to play ranked. Lmao, I'm not the one crying for nerfs. I'm offering logical suggestions to counter the bloody screaming that everyone else is throwing up here on the forums. There are crybabies all over the forums crying about sorcs, about sins, etc. The problem you're referring to is the fact that Powertech's damage and abilities are all straightforward and easy for other players to define. Same goes for jugs/guards. And another thing, try addressing these concerns specifically when others throw them up in our face. The devs are going to tweak around pve logistics and most likely will try to level the damage potential, not cripple it. I've stated since the beginning that we won't get nerfed as bad as many would think. Redistributing dps potential, isn't a "nerf". I've been constantly defending the 3.0 powertech gameplay against a boatload of complainers. If you were unaware or oblivious, than that makes you look like the idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBonzai Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Lmao, I'm not the one crying for nerfs. I'm offering logical suggestions to counter the bloody screaming that everyone else is throwing up here on the forums. There are crybabies all over the forums crying about sorcs, about sins, etc. The problem you're referring to is the fact that Powertech's damage and abilities are all straightforward and easy for other players to define. Same goes for jugs/guards. And another thing, try addressing these concerns specifically when others throw them up in our face. The devs are going to tweak around pve logistics and most likely will try to level the damage potential, not cripple it. I've stated since the beginning that we won't get nerfed as bad as many would think. Redistributing dps potential, isn't a "nerf". I've been constantly defending the 3.0 powertech gameplay against a boatload of complainers. If you were unaware or oblivious, than that makes you look like the idiot. Heres a way this can be resolved. BioWare can make it so when players Q into a match, there are a specific number of tanks, and healers. Sure it'll make the Q times a bit longer, but it'll mean that with balanced teams, one side or the other won't find them selves steam rolled like it happens so often when people Q for matches. Also please keep in mind that this game was never meant to rely on WZ's for it's PvP. Before and after this games release the original BioWare founders/developers stressed how important world PvP was to be in this game, however, due to the BioWares original founders/developers lack of experience in MMO design, what we ended up getting was the Ilum debacle. That's when this games PvP became nothing more than lobby-centric PvP with the all to often miss matched team where you have not enough of one class or too much of another class. I'm really getting sick of PvP being the reason that my enjoyment and effectiveness in PvE goes up and down due to BioWares re-balancing. Early summer when I read about 3.0, I became quite angry. After almost two painful years of up's and downs due to BioWares re-balancing, they finally hit the sweet spot with the class professions where everyone was pretty happy and the whining had gone down to almost 0%, then they announced an increase of the level cap! And now it looks like we are back to square one again. Ugh! Edited January 17, 2015 by DrBonzai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DethlaHadyn Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I'll add that I understand where brunner is coming from, for in ranked you'll see a completely different scope of players and gear (usually). I think the crying originally came from those who were in reg warzones, against players with improper gear, and we had a bolster bug to throw into the mix. Now there won't be as much complaining, as I suspected, because the gear gaps have shrunken and bolster mega hits are a thing of the past. Players have also had time to learn the new 3.0 mechanics and are adapting. This thread will soon be dead, I'll estimate a week. And as I said from the beginning, PT's won't be nerfed as much as many think they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natharon Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 As long as some of these classes have the defensive cooldowns they have the class is fine. Scamper to negate all damage and negate any physics and stuns. LOL Barrier has been lol since inclusion, but admittedly sorcs need it. Shroud lol, equal skill between the two, in ranked, a sin will destroy a pt every single time. Focused Defense, is the biggest joke since they buffed it, pro strats for all you suck bag jugs, leap/ravage counter hold the line with your new lolchoke, blow up and take zero damage from the pt in the process. If you don't have ravage root, you need to stop playing and try coloring its more your speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catholicc Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Anyone who thinks we're the problem with PVP needs to actually try to play ranked. You say it as if this game is balanced specifically for Ranked matches, but there are many- many other factors that come into play. I hate arenas, and rarely ever stick around for them. AP? (assault plastique?) range. If the bring this back down to 10m then they would most definitely have to bring down the range of Shadows and Assassins- which I would not mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 You say it as if this game is balanced specifically for Ranked matches, but there are many- many other factors that come into play. I hate arenas, and rarely ever stick around for them. AP? (assault plastique?) range. If the bring this back down to 10m then they would most definitely have to bring down the range of Shadows and Assassins- which I would not mind. Bioware's combat team all play assassins, there's no way the back pedaling terrible devs will nerf their favorite class to anything less than complete God-mode. That class hasn't been nerfed since 2.0. It isn't going to happen, so quit begging for AP nerfs before we get what they think we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) But still you are missing the point of how some people are viewing the current range that AP has, like it's the root of all the "burst" problems... like I don't even see how that debate can be taken seriously at all. It's hilarious though, and I agree that we will ALL leave it right here. I think we misunderstood each other's position on this point. Apologies on that. I agree the range isn't an issue, I was proposing tossing something less useful in trade of something more useful to the spec such as better defensive tools. Combined with a "rearrangement of our damage." You said it yourself, You'll grapple your target in close and probably use a combination of heavy hitters, that may not even include Railshot or Thermal Detonator. The current complaints from players of other classes, is not those two, it's from Energy Burst and from Shoulder Cannon. That is why we should point the combat team in the right direction by allowing us to retain the current 3.0 mechanics, but simply re-distribute the ways our dps is applied. Once again.. a suggestion would be reduce the upfront base damage from Energy Burst and Shoulder Cannon (25%) and re-distribute that reduction to increase our Retractable Blade and it's bleeds. No mechanics are tinkered with, and our overall damage potential stays the same. Yes, again I agree here, well said. I wouldn't mind a redistribution in damage. The burst would still be decent, combined with some more survivability I think this would put the spec in a very well rounded place. I'm still not entirely sure if the damage of SC is an issue or the ICD on it is. I lean toward the later, however if the damage is reduced the increase to Retractable Blade seems nice compensation. Edited January 19, 2015 by LanceCorporalDan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beyrahl Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Not sure why everyone says nerf the shoulder cannon, but forgets cell burst hits 18k on geared people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaadJarvis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Tbh I prefer setting up and nuking down my burst phase with AP in and around boss mechanics rather than the pyrotech's steady dmg. I read that pyro gets more steady dps on the dummy on 5 min + fights, where AP would be struggling with heat and CD's. IMO don't give AP more bleed dmg over time in place of less burst, that's just making it more a dot spec in line with pyro. High burst specs are designed to fall of after a bit.. It just happens that they designed arenas in a way where the match is determined within a very short window and players turn to burst for results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Not sure why everyone says nerf the shoulder cannon, but forgets cell burst hits 18k on geared people. I've only had 14k hits myself. Are you sure they are geared? Not saying it couldn't happen, but I've not seen it personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Not sure why everyone says nerf the shoulder cannon, but forgets cell burst hits 18k on geared people. If you are hitting them for 18k, they aint geared. Geared is about 15k. Oh and for the record, heatseekeers and Ambush hit harder than Cell Burst does while having a lower cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DethlaHadyn Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 If you are hitting them for 18k, they aint geared. Geared is about 15k. Oh and for the record, heatseekeers and Ambush hit harder than Cell Burst does while having a lower cooldown. Ha, yes, and furthermore you don't see as many of them in arenas lol. Like I said earlier, I think that I'd rather see mild re-adjustments to appease the masses, rather than a complete nerf to the spec, which is why I tried to entertain a redistribution of our damage potential. BUT wait...Maybe I'm the one who's flippin drunk! And Powertech/Vanguards need to be compared to the other classes in a nice pretty little graph, so the hordes of butthurt regstars can see where all the classes' damage potential really stands. LoL, I've been playing pyro lately, so I'll remove myself from the discussion for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona_Var Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 They don't need a huge nerf like what some people are calling for on them and asaassins and sorcs as well. All 3 just need a few tweaks to bring them more into balance with eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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