State of the game review on Kotaku....

[LordArtemis]

State of Star Wars the Old Republic, three years in...

 

Ok, there are a few interesting points in the review, and it's not all bad. There are a few accolades, and the indication that the game is moving "where we want it to be" (though I cringe at the method of speaking for others).

 

Personally I think some of the points have some validity.

 

IMO GSF was not developed properly and was generally underwhelming, though head and shoulders above the original space combat feature....and I think it is likely adoption rates among the playerbase tends to be low. This was not, IMO, what folks asked for, generally speaking of course.

 

Strongholds, on the other hand, is likely better received despite some of its weaknesses (if it has any, speculative naturally), likely because of the huge QoL improvement it provides. Even if a person is disappointed in it as an actual housing feature (I think it can be said that some folks are very disappointed in that respect) it would be hard to argue, IMO, that it does not provide universal convenience for most players.

 

Legacy storage and the travel options to and from Strongholds was the key to its appeal to the wider playerbase IMO. GSF lacked this kind of universal appeal in my eyes.

 

Now, moving on to the state of the game, stepping around current playability issues, we have the storyline expansion, level boost and Disciplines. IMO Disciplines should have been released separate from 3.0. That said, I feel the expansion is relatively solid all around, and provides at least an entry back into the old way of providing story, which RotHC did not likely provide.

 

There are a few very important things that were handled properly IMO.

1) Availability of 172 mods to all players at level 55.

2) Removal of all comms lower than basics, expansion of pool to 1000.

3) Refinement of new mods, EPs and Implants for crafting.

4) Solo version of FA for all players.

5) Removal of training costs for abilities (not right at early access, but general launch)

6) Generous conversion of old mods to basics.

7) Reward of 300 comms and strong companion legacy weapon at the end of the FA arc.

 

Not to mention the lead in of 12XP which was brilliant IMO.

 

All of these changes and additions likely made it easier for casual players to at least gain entry to the content, get leveling and get crafting.

 

And THIS was the hallmark of the early game. RotHC did not provide this kind of accessibility. Strong gear could only be had by running flashpoints or CZ/Oricon, which stood as a barrier to casual players IMO. In this case no such barrier exists.

 

If this is the way to move forward, removing artificial barriers is the likely way to go if they wish to maximize participation and upward movement in the playerbase. There is still plenty of work to do, and we have quite a ways to go before the game gets the old "story driven" feeling back IMO, but it is on the right track.

 

Thoughts and comments welcome.

Edited December 20, 2014 by LordArtemis

[TheSeventhJedi]

Read the article, but after the article, I'm afraid I can't bring myself to read your comments.

[LordArtemis]

Read the article, but after the article, I'm afraid I can't bring myself to read your comments.

 

Fair enough.

[menofhorror]

"Whereas the Hutt Cartel expansion felt like an attempt to find a new paradigm without those resources, Shadow of Revan feels more like a cut down version of what SWTOR used to be. It's the status quo reestablished, but not as good this time."

 

That`s exactly how I felt about the newest expansion.

[Essence_of_Light]

For some reason whenever I see Kotaku, I think of food. I don't know why.

[howieloader]

I didn't know Kotaku was relevant anymore...

[Kalfear]

meh, decent enough write up (if not overly bias towards LAs version fo casuals).

 

For me its a mixed bag as well (honestly anyone claiming its all bad or all good should be put on ignore instantly I feel, it has done some things right and also made some huge mistakes)

 

1) First off the new team that took over from the original devs are a god send. If for no other reason that they are willing to listen to ideas and not instantly take standard MMORPG concepts off the table (like housing as the big example). So new teams gets mad props just for not having the same level of arrogance and disgust towards the player base as the original dev and web team displayed here daily.

 

2) On the bad, the game truly has devolved into a a very very very very easy single player game. I rarely play any single player game past the normal setting and even I'm getting REALLY bored with the ultra dumbed down content easy mode in regards to fights. SOR while looking great and story line great, was the equivalent challenge wise to running a invulnerability god mode hack in some single player game. If you were at all challenged by the SOR content (even remotely) then standard MMORPG titles are not for you as the difficulty rating was dumbed down to the lowest I have ever encountered in a MMORPG since they started in 1991.

 

3) Ignoring the lack of challenge of SOR, the 2 planets were VERY picturesque and the story line was interesting and fun. As far as visual appeal and future planetary story lines, EA has found the right blend on that front to expand off of.

 

Especially loved the city on Rishaa with the multiple levels of vertical design. This city gives me hope that in the future Kashykk (wookies world) will become a reality in game.

 

4) However for all the great visuals and story, the SOR was to small and to easily finished and is already becoming stale to even the most casual of players. Unless EA plans to release a "FREE" (because I know Im not paying for content update again till next year, thats why I pay a sub) every month of that size, SOR falls well short of what a REAL paid for Expansion should be size and hours of content wise.

 

5) Over all state of game is questionable as well. Housing was a great boon for EA and I have no doubt massively injected much needed revenue into the game from decoration cartel purchases.

 

Housing on new planets will be a big boon for EA as they undoubtably will add in semi regularly

Still need armor stands to allow us to display old sets of armor and what not

 

6)On the flip side the 12x XP has tarnished the game for anyone who doesn't support dumbing down of content. I know for myself (and many I speak to in game) where once we ran multiple flash points a day, none of us can bring ourselves to re entering GF queues because 12x XP just destroyed the level of competency of groups through GF (which wasn't ultra high to begin with). And even though my server is busy, you hear the endless complaints over general of long queues once again happening now as more and more experienced players vacate using GF because of the dumbing down of group quality.

 

So you got those that want everything for free given to them supporting 12x XP

And those who want to play the game and earn their way vacating a big chunk of end game content because of the inclusion of above group.

 

Personally I see this ultimately hurting EA subscription wise as we see more and more of those that subed up for 12x XP revert back to F2P status now they leveled up fast (they never intended to stay subed long term) and those that were long time subscribers who dont want it all given to them leave the game as a big chuck of content for them has been made unplayable.

 

7) Crafting still remains a complete joke sadly as really crafting is now limited to conquest and augments. Everything else is easily obtained through easy solo content (upto and including elite level com gear (192) ) and ultimate coms are now pretty much only available to die hard ops runners and pre made tactical/hm groups able to avoid GF.

 

I would really like to see crafting be made more important in this game but on flip side its so easy to skill up I guess I see why its only have minimal returns on usefulness.

 

8) still no swoop racing or Pazaak which to me is completely unacceptable and should have been in game from day 1

 

9) As for GSF, personally I dont do it because for those style of games I require joystick usage. So until EA supports joysticks in GSF, this player will just veiw it as extra content as a side game. And there is nothing wrong with that at all. Really EA should put more side games in (like Pazaak and Swoop racing)

 

10) And the biggy. Since day one EA has been unable to make the PVPers and PVEers happy. Every change to pacify the PVEers caused untold havoc in PVP. And every PVP change screws over the PVEers.

 

This issue is not a SW:TOR only issue but one that continues to frustrate and aggravate players of both sides and will continue to for the foreseeable future.

 

Personally I think moving away from Warzone and promoting open world (with in specific areas/planets) would be the first step to fixing it. But I don't see that happening so this issue will remain a problem probably for length of game life.

 

TLDR: Game has done lots of good stuff visually and story wise but the recent turn to ultra easy mode single player play combined with forcing bad players artificially leveled on your end game players is already starting to have negative results with in game. I foresee this issue growing over time if even a minimal level of challenge is not re-added to game content.

 

EA this is NOT a single player RPG so you need to start treating it like a MMORPG with real FULL SIZED MMORPG expansions and a challenge level that allows for solo play but promotes grouping. Right now it promotes solo play exclusively.

 

I buy Single player RPGs like The Witcher 3, Dragon Age: Inquizition, Civilization Beyond Earth for single player experiences.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Kalfear

[jedip_enguin]

Kotaku is run by a bunch of hacks.

[LyraineAlei]

This post will contain unmarked spoilers within a spoiler box to avoid breaking up the paragraphs into awkward chunks with spoiler boxes.

 

 

Speculative mode active here.

I think SoR would have been a bit better if...

• There was more mention of the things Revan did on Pubside. Impside we had the base Revanite Cult on Kaas, and the Star Forge Seed thing on NS. Pubside? Only Taris and the quest to find out what happened to the Promised Ones. Although Smugglers did return Trask Ulgo's head to Alderaan. Then both sides had the two faction-unique FPs.
  
• If in 50-55, we had a few tidbits of what Revan had been doing before Imperial Foundry.
  

 

Then brining in the Revanites and Revan back wouldn't have been such an almost ***-pull. Oh, and if Scourge just walked into the meeting on Yavin IV, dropped a line or two about how Revan was like before the Emperor captured him, that would have been great. And if the player was not the JK, well, maybe Grandmaster Shan told the Hero of Tython to send Scourge over for a small briefing for those preparing to fight him.

 

Other things that would have been nice to have:

A mention of Revanites Status by the Revanites, not just a minor, optional dialogue line in FA.

 

I think the biggest disappointment with SoR was Companions. And not just Lord Scourge as I mentioned earlier. In RotHC. Every. Single. Comp. Spoke. Was it inane chatter about the environment and views? Yes. But we got to hear them for the first time since the class stories ended.

 

If they weren't going to vocalize, then letters commenting on what the player is doing would have been nice to get.

 

I also admit the whole "Revan Split into Two People" thing felt like a cop-out. A guy does not endure 300 years of torture, and then walk around just fine. And then there was no mention of the Exile doing anything in SoR, not even a cryptic message. When I ran Yavin IV the first time, and Shan mentioned the other power she could feel in the Force on the moon, I instantly thought "Great! My main can finally meet the Exile now, too! Maybe the Exile will make a mention of the Mandalorian Wars or something." Nope.

 

 

 

I'm going to end my semi-rant here before it goes full rant.

[Essence_of_Light]

<snip>

 

Especially loved the city on Rishaa with the multiple levels of vertical design. This city gives me hope that in the future Kashykk (wookies world) will become a reality in game.

 

<snip>[/b][/color]

 

Rishi*, Kashyyyk*, Wookiee*

 

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Essence_of_Light

[Transcendent]

I didn't know Kotaku was relevant anymore...

 

I've never taken anything the bunch of console gamers that is Kotaku have written as "relevant". The bias from that site is pretty blatant to say the least. Sounds like it hasn't changed either with the way the article has been written perspective wise.

 

Aside from the "tiny" little piece of class story we've been given in this expansion, I'd have to observe there isn't a huge difference between SoR / RoTHC in the way it handles individual missions / quests.

 

However I do think the lead into the expansion was very well done, individual tactical flashpoints released episodically with a solid story build up. The whole 12x exp thing to allow players to level up to enjoy the new expansion. My only gripe has to be the length of time between the episodes themselves.

 

Also, while GSF / Strongholds may not be to all players tastes, I don't think BioWare were wrong for catering to the part of the community that actually enjoys that aspect of the game. Hopefully they'll continue to add and expand on those areas as well as PvP, alongside continuing to provide story content / flashpoints / operations.

[SammuelSK]

"Whereas the Hutt Cartel expansion felt like an attempt to find a new paradigm without those resources, Shadow of Revan feels more like a cut down version of what SWTOR used to be. It's the status quo reestablished, but not as good this time."

 

That`s exactly how I felt about the newest expansion.

 

Agreed, it feels less like an expansion and more like a reminder of how things used to be done. Its like an nostalgia cover band, the song was the same... just not as good as the original.

[Kalfear]

Rishi*, Kashyyyk*, Wookiee*

 

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

I am properly chastised

 

*sobs*

 

Oh wait, sobbing might be viewed as role play and they don't officially support role play in SW:TOR hehe

[JattaGin]

However for all the great visuals and story, the SOR was to small and to easily finished and is already becoming stale to even the most casual of players.

 

Really? And you know this from personally asking most of the casual players? I'm not even a casual player, but I have only sent my main char through SoR yet. So, 15 more chars are waiting for it. Your conclusion is ridiculous.

[Kryand]

10) And the biggy. Since day one EA has been unable to make the PVPers and PVEers happy. Every change to pacify the PVEers caused untold havoc in PVP. And every PVP change screws over the PVEers.

 

This issue is not a SW:TOR only issue but one that continues to frustrate and aggravate players of both sides and will continue to for the foreseeable future.

 

Personally I think moving away from Warzone and promoting open world (with in specific areas/planets) would be the first step to fixing it. But I don't see that happening so this issue will remain a problem probably for length of game life.

 

The only MMO I know of that did this correctly is Firefall. PVP and PVE were treated as two totally separate games. PVP had all character stats set in stone, so that any two players of the same class were on 100% equal footing, with only their skills to separate them, whether they had been PVPing for months or just created their character that day. PVE still had its gear progression, levels, etc. Nothing you did in PVE affected the PVP game at all. At least, that's how it was when I played it last.

 

Then again, a while after I quit (because the game sucked overall), PVP was removed from the game completely, because they couldn't sustain it along with all their PVE changes. So I guess in the end, they didn't do it that correctly. Don't know what state the PVE/PVP of that game is in now, though. But I guess the point could be made that separating PVE and PVP in this way requires too much dev work. But is it really harder to balance 2 independent sets of gameplay than to balance both sets of gameplay at the same time? I doubt it.

 

The fact remains that the only way to have PVE and PVP exist in the same game, and not have the PVP be seen as a joke by literally all competitive gamers, is to make them completely independent of one other - and have no progression of any kind in PVP aside from your own skill at playing the game.

[Eillack]

I actually agree with their article.

 

It summed up how subpar this "expansion" was imo.

[Darth_Wicked]

NEVER been a fan of Kotaku. Even so, gotta admit this right here...

Whereas the Hutt Cartel expansion felt like an attempt to find a new paradigm without those resources, Shadow of Revan feels more like a cut down version of what SWTOR used to be. It's the status quo reestablished, but not as good this time.

Sums it up pretty well for me.

[DawnAskham]

"Whereas the Hutt Cartel expansion felt like an attempt to find a new paradigm without those resources, Shadow of Revan feels more like a cut down version of what SWTOR used to be. It's the status quo reestablished, but not as good this time."

 

They even included ability delay in the expansion for nostalgia's sake.

[Deewe]

State of Star Wars the Old Republic, three years in...

Thanks a lot will look into it for sure. Bookmarking.

 

 

For me its a mixed bag as well (honestly anyone claiming its all bad or all good should be put on ignore instantly I feel, it has done some things right and also made some huge mistakes)

 

**snip**

Spot on on most points will come back later for comment. Great post

[Pirana]

The article pretty much nailed it.

[TheSupaCoopa]

I've never taken anything the bunch of console gamers that is Kotaku have written as "relevant". The bias from that site is pretty blatant to say the least. Sounds like it hasn't changed either with the way the article has been written perspective wise.

 

Aside from the "tiny" little piece of class story we've been given in this expansion, I'd have to observe there isn't a huge difference between SoR / RoTHC in the way it handles individual missions / quests.

 

However I do think the lead into the expansion was very well done, individual tactical flashpoints released episodically with a solid story build up. The whole 12x exp thing to allow players to level up to enjoy the new expansion. My only gripe has to be the length of time between the episodes themselves.

 

BW should borrow an episodic way of storytelling. Say, like, once per "season", we'd get a daily area and a short class arc leading into the story. Then there would be Flashpoints. The season Finale would be an Operation.

 

For example, in 1 season, you might have:

 

Daily Area(Episode I)

Class Missions(Episode II)

Class Missions(Episode III)

Class Missions(Episode IV)

Flashpoint(Episode V)

Flashpoint(Episode VI)

Flashpoint(Episode VII)

Faction Mission(Episode VIII)

Operation(Episode IX, Finale)

 

All 9 episodes would have solo modes, but would have better rewards if you did it with a group.

 

-Duran'del

Edited December 21, 2014 by TheSupaCoopa

[bassfu]

Was this written because of legitimate gripes or because Courtney turned down their sexual advances?

[jedip_enguin]

Was this written because of legitimate gripes or because Courtney turned down their sexual advances?

 

Oh ****, its on like Donkey Kong!

[Andryah]

Bottom line.... 3rd party State Of The Game blog topics on the internet are worthless.

 

Why?

 

1) It is like every thread post in this forum -----> personal opinion, BUT written to earn income from said opinion for the opinion writer.

2) People will agree and disagree with whatever is stated.... just like any other opinion read on the internet.

 

Not completely devoid of value for some though.

 

How so?

 

1) some players desperately seek at least "an appearance" of official commentary (source unimportant) that supports their negative feelings. Just having it somewhere, on virtual print, makes them feel powerful and validated.

2) some people are unable, or uninclined, to think and evaluate for themselves... and rely on complete strangers on the internet to tell them how virtual reality clashes/plays out with reality in their life.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Andryah

[Rafaman]

For some reason whenever I see Kotaku, I think of food. I don't know why.

 

Me too... I'm convinced there is a noodle house with that name. Or... I could be hungry... or both!