Sorcs are BROKEN!!!

[Yezzan]

That's not going to solve anything. If one specific class is doing badly then buff them. Tone down sorcs and next thing you know they are the new Marauders and Sentinels. Even though to be fair Sages dont' seem to have the same power as Sorcerers (or it's just me).

 

PvP cannot be balanced even though it's mechanics can be centered around that paradigm. The more people cry for changes, the more broken it will become. If you fix one class it puts another class at a disadvantage. Each class has a specific function, which means that it will be inadvertently at a disadvantage to others classes in certain areas.

 

Everyone can't be on the same page; it's impractical albeit ideal.

 

There are alot of bad players in PvP ( me being of them) and thats why we have so much complaints. The difference between me and them is that I don't complain. If I get killed by a sorcerer then I make it my goal to kill one

 

I am still relatively a new player here. I hop scotch between 5 toons and havent really taken the time to learn the ins and outs of any one particular class. yet I still go in WZ and nail people. I mean if you are bad and you are 2nd-3rd overall in several matches, what does that say?

 

and make no mistake it's the same people that goes to ranked and complain.

 

The biggest problem I think in PvP right now are the infinite CCs and immunities.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Yezzan

[SithEater]

I was responding to a particular comment not about sorcs in general. There are other DCD that take the player out of combat. No sorcs cannot attack while they have barrier up. Neither can ops or sins when they use their combat stealth. While they are stealthed it is the same as while the sorc is in barrier. They aren't contributing to the fight. As soon as they attack the benefit of the stealth is gone. Maras also cannot attack while force camo is active. Once they do the benefit ends. Barrier is not the only cooldown that doesn't allows the player to deal damage.

Stealth is not any of those clasees main DCDs, so no it does not compare.

[SithEater]

That's not going to solve anything. If one specific class is doing badly then buff them. Tone down sorcs and next thing you know they are the new Marauders and Sentinels. Even though to be fair Sages dont' seem to have the same power as Sorcerers (or it's just me).

It's just you.

[Saikochoro]

Stealth is not any of those clasees main DCDs, so no it does not compare.

 

Cloaking screen and force cloak most definitely are one of their main defenses. The same could be said about barrier. The really good sorcs main survivability comes from kiting, Los, and healing. Barrier is their panic button just like the combat stealth is for the stealth classes.

[SithEater]

Cloaking screen and force cloak most definitely are one of their main defenses. The same could be said about barrier. The really good sorcs main survivability comes from kiting, Los, and healing. Barrier is their panic button just like the combat stealth is for the stealth classes.

Sorry, but no a Mara/Sentinal main DCD is not stealth, a Shadow/Sins main DCD is not stealth. Bubble IS the Sorc/Sages main DCD. A Sorc/Sage moving is not a DCD, as moving is not an ability. Anyone can move and ALL the good players, regardless of class move around and don't just stand there.

[Lotsanerv]

Then you DPS just suck!

Besides, taking the node from a sin or oeprative will take at least the same amount of time as they will sap you several times before the actual fight even starts.

 

Sorcs' big numbers only come from the spreading of the DoTs. So in one one one sorc will do far less damage.

You think sorcs are hard to kill? Try playing a sorc. Just because some sorc with high skill killed you with your low skill level doesn't mean that this class is OP.

 

This is so wrong. TK/lightning sage/sorc aren't spending all their time spreading dots. There is, however, a massive amount of AOE when a team groups together.

[ClockworkSoldier]

Sin DPS and AP PT do more damage, kill targets faster and Generally have better utilities. Plus any one else been hit by a Snpiers 17k Ambush while in full pvp gear? Just saying other classes can easily do just as much damage.

 

At the end of the day a good player will shine with any class. Bad players will just blame.

Edited January 21, 2015 by ClockworkSoldier

[Galothor]

This is so wrong. TK/lightning sage/sorc aren't spending all their time spreading dots. There is, however, a massive amount of AOE when a team groups together.

 

We already established in the beginning that Force Storm is OP in it's current state. Thus, there is no point in repeating it over and over again, especially when people are whining about Madness and Dot spread.

[MusicRider]

This is so wrong. TK/lightning sage/sorc aren't spending all their time spreading dots. There is, however, a massive amount of AOE when a team groups together.

 

I think you are missing the point of aoe damage, it is meant to do massive amounts of damage over a group of people, otherwise what is the point of it? The problem with FS is that damage wise can be when criting better than other abilities in single target rotations.

 

Sensible sorcs agree that needs some toning down in Ling, but not to the point that it becomes useless. If your group is hit constantly for two full storms it should be in a disadvantageous position. At the same time if FS is nerfed, Lings single target dps and burst should increase slightly to be brought in line with the rest of the burst specs, but not suggesting to the level of Pts but more to the lines of MM snipers, etc.

[Lattervane]

The problem with Sorcs isn't any one particular ability, it's the sum total of everything they have in their toolkit relative to what other ranged classes have.

 

Best Resource - Check

Best Mobility - Check

Spammable Heals - Check

Best AOE - Check

Force Barrier - Check (No other ranged class has ANYTHING in the realm of this)

Best & Most Amount of CC - Check

 

It's no wonder every warzone has 3 - 6 Sorcs. It's sickening what all they have relative to the other ranged classes.

[Koarria]

The problem with Sorcs isn't any one particular ability, it's the sum total of everything they have in their toolkit relative to what other ranged classes have.

 

Best Resource - Check

Best Mobility - Check

Spammable Heals - Check

Best AOE - Check

Force Barrier - Check (No other ranged class has ANYTHING in the realm of this)

Best & Most Amount of CC - Check

 

It's no wonder every warzone has 3 - 6 Sorcs. It's sickening what all they have relative to the other ranged classes.

Ehm Bioware added another one: Unlimited Power. So they admit it even in your face. Check out their new level 56 ability. No other AC has this God-ability.

[Saikochoro]

Sorry, but no a Mara/Sentinal main DCD is not stealth, a Shadow/Sins main DCD is not stealth. Bubble IS the Sorc/Sages main DCD. A Sorc/Sage moving is not a DCD, as moving is not an ability. Anyone can move and ALL the good players, regardless of class move around and don't just stand there.

 

You are completely wrong. Do you even play any of those specs? Cloaking screen, force cloak, and force camo are all the escape buttons of those three respective classes just like barrier is a sorcs escape button. Those three powers are a main defensive cooldown. If you are denying that, then I don't know what to say to you because you are confused. Barrier is not the main survivability of sorcs it is their panic button. If you cannot function outside of barrier then you are not playing sorcs properly. You have to kite, Los, heal, and use static barrier for the majority of your fighting. Barrier is your last resort. Sins and ops use their other cooldowns to survive during the majority of the fight and use their escapes as a last resort. They cannot deal damage to the team while stealthed. As soon as they pop out of stealth the benefit ends. They are as useful in stealth as a sorc is in barrier it doesn't matter that they can move. They are still not helping the team while they are stealthed. Force camo is one of the maras best cooldowns and is used somewhat the same.

[MusicRider]

You are completely wrong. Do you even play any of those specs? Cloaking screen, force cloak, and force camo are all the escape buttons of those three respective classes just like barrier is a sorcs escape button. Those three powers are a main defensive cooldown. If you are denying that, then I don't know what to say to you because you are confused. Barrier is not the main survivability of sorcs it is their panic button. If you cannot function outside of barrier then you are not playing sorcs properly. You have to kite, Los, heal, and use static barrier for the majority of your fighting. Barrier is your last resort. Sins and ops use their other cooldowns to survive during the majority of the fight and use their escapes as a last resort. They cannot deal damage to the team while stealthed. As soon as they pop out of stealth the benefit ends. They are as useful in stealth as a sorc is in barrier it doesn't matter that they can move. They are still not helping the team while they are stealthed. Force camo is one of the maras best cooldowns and is used somewhat the same.

 

You do realise that you have fallen in the trap. With this post you just nullified everything you have said against sorcs. I would have gone into details, but it seems you just disagree for the sake of disagreeing. Out of last curiosity, what class do you play?

[Middletons]

Not much of a glass cannon anymore are they, Bioware?

 

Not that it matters, the latest update turned this in to the most casual PvP MMO on the market. Any retard can pick up a ranged class and do well enough to get away with it now.

 

The only thing which takes any kind of effort and measure of skill to perform well with anymore is arguably a marauder/sentinel. Everything else is faceroll.

[Catholicc]

Ehm Bioware added another one: Unlimited Power. So they admit it even in your face. Check out their new level 56 ability. No other AC has this God-ability.

Haha. I just saw that.

The other two class specific abilities also grant a 10%...one is crit and the other is alacrity.....yeah, alacrity.

[Saikochoro]

You do realise that you have fallen in the trap. With this post you just nullified everything you have said against sorcs. I would have gone into details, but it seems you just disagree for the sake of disagreeing. Out of last curiosity, what class do you play?

 

I have not disagreed with anything I said about sorcs. I may have mistakenly said I don't think they should have barrier, but didn't mean that. I think bastion is a bit much with the other things they have, but not barrier. Barrier needs to stay. I don't have a problem with sorcs having barrier. It is the sum of what sorcs have that I have a problem with. Not one thing in particular. I stated the majority of survivability comes from kiting, normal bubble, and healing. That is true. The problem is: they have the best kiting abilities, the best self healing, and on top of that bastion and mobility. That is the problem. One tool needs to be taken away. Not all of them. The main problem is lightning. Although it doesn't have as much self healing as madness they still have great self healing. They are much too mobile. That is the issue. If they had to cast more issue would be solved pretty much. They don't need reverted to pre 3.0, but the sum of their tools is too much. This is especially the case when you compare it to other ranged classes. My issue with barrier is bastion. Not barrier itself. Barrier is a good anti focus tool, but bastion turns it into a short tanking tool as well. That on top of the other tools they have is too much. Again the other ranged classes have nothing comparable.

 

Classes I play most so my biases are understood (yes we all have biases not just me):

Operative

Sin

 

Classes I play second most:

Sorc

PT

 

Third:

Jugg

Merc

 

Least played classes:

Mara

Sniper

Edited January 21, 2015 by Saikochoro

[SithEater]

Those three powers are a main defensive cooldown... Sins and ops use their other cooldowns to survive during the majority of the fight and use their escapes as a last resort.

So what is it, their main DCD or something they use only after all their other DCDs have been used?

[Saikochoro]

So what is it, their main DCD or something they use only after all their other DCDs have been used?

 

There is not a single main defensive cooldown. It is a "main" one in that it is the go to power to escape. It is the main panic button. The other cooldowns are the "main" defenses during the fighting. Evasion is their "main" defense against white damage and dots. Roll is the "main" defense against burst. Shroud is the "main" defense against yellow damage, etc. One power isn't the end all be all of for them. For the most part, tt is the sum of their abilities that really matter. There have been some abilities in the past that by themselves needed tweaked, but overall it is the sum of the abilities that provide the full picture. I was responding to a specific example a while ago in this thread and it has been taken into a different argument. I stated that sorcs and sins are the only ones that can clearly escape from being stun locked by 3 pts to death. A jugg might have a chance as well, but not so definite. The reason being because they have an ability that can be used while stunned that takes them away from the threat. This does not mean that phase walk is op. It does not mean that barrier is op. To see if the class is op you look at all of their tools.

 

Force cloak, cloaking screen, and force camo are all very similar to force barrier in that they remove you from harm for the duration of the cooldown. As soon as it ends, or as soon as you manually end the cooldown, the benefit ends. Until that time you cannot aid your team.

[MusicRider]

I have not disagreed with anything I said about sorcs. I may have mistakenly said I don't think they should have barrier, but didn't mean that. I think bastion is a bit much with the other things they have, but not barrier. Barrier needs to stay. I don't have a problem with sorcs having barrier. It is the sum of what sorcs have that I have a problem with. Not one thing in particular. I stated the majority of survivability comes from kiting, normal bubble, and healing. That is true. The problem is: they have the best kiting abilities, the best self healing, and on top of that bastion and mobility. That is the problem. One tool needs to be taken away. Not all of them. The main problem is lightning. Although it doesn't have as much self healing as madness they still have great self healing. They are much too mobile. That is the issue. If they had to cast more issue would be solved pretty much. They don't need reverted to pre 3.0, but the sum of their tools is too much. This is especially the case when you compare it to other ranged classes. My issue with barrier is bastion. Not barrier itself. Barrier is a good anti focus tool, but bastion turns it into a short tanking tool as well. That on top of the other tools they have is too much. Again the other ranged classes have nothing comparable.

 

Classes I play most so my biases are understood (yes we all have biases not just me):

Operative

Sin

 

Classes I play second most:

Sorc

PT

 

Third:

Jugg

Merc

 

Least played classes:

Mara

Sniper

 

Pro tip: cc during bastion. Second pro tip: as sin/operative/pt you should have literally 0 problems vs a ling sorc, and I mean absolutely 0. Rest not worth commenting as simply are not true.

[Saikochoro]

Never said I couldn't beat a lightning sorc. Arenas are not duels. In the arena a good lightning sorc is going to be more valuable to the team than an excellent concealment op. Yes you can stun them in bastion. Never said you couldn't. That is beside the point. The amount of tools they have is over the top. It's the full package you have to consider. Feel free to think I'm wrong. That's okay. I think you are wrong. So it evens out.

[MusicRider]

Never said I couldn't beat a lightning sorc. Arenas are not duels. In the arena a good lightning sorc is going to be more valuable to the team than an excellent concealment op. Yes you can stun them in bastion. Never said you couldn't. That is beside the point. The amount of tools they have is over the top. It's the full package you have to consider. Feel free to think I'm wrong. That's okay. I think you are wrong. So it evens out.

 

As concealment operative in 3.0 it is not a matter of whether you can or not, it is a matter that by default you can't lose. And in arenas easiest is to stick to a ling sorc, you can easily shut him down while you can completely counter all the big hitters. And ccing during bastion is exactly the point. The fact you don't realise that this is exactly the point, the fact that you talk about big self-heals (which by the way didn't know I could play a madness/ling hybrid still) but not mentioning that healing is their main dcd given that they have zero damage reduction abilities, the fact that you even suggested at some point that they shouldn't even have barrier (how can I expect you to comprehend why bastion exists after that), the fact that you criticise the mobility of ling that was a spec that was never ever played in ranked arenas, the fact that you play the most broken class in the game (have you seen the video of 4 hatred sins annihilating everyone in group ranked?); well after all these it is pretty clear that you have no clue about the strengths and weaknesses of sorcs.

[Icykill_]

The worst thing is my main is a Sorc and a Sage and I've been playing both since launch... So many matches I get abused for using a "FOTM" character or told I am unskilled and need to play the easiest class...

Sure there are a lot of people playing FOTM classes... But not many are good... Most are mediocre at best... You can see who the good Sorcs are by looking at how they actually contributed to the match and what their stats are... Those that just stand there and AOE all match to get high dps really don't contribute at all... Personally I usually don't die, have over 900k dps, 400-500k healing and take 400-700k damage... You won't see mediocre players doing that

I've seen the roller coaster of nerfs and buffs for this class... I remember when Sorcs were nearly balanced with other classes... Then nearly all classes got buffs and Sorcs got a left behind and even got a small nerf... This made the class unviable as a main DPS class and was really only useful as a utility class to annoy healers and stop caps

Now that they are in the top 4 of DPS again and are viable... All of a sudden they are OP and FOTM... Instead of calling for nerfs... Some of those classes that got left behind a little should get some buffs or defensive measures to make them more viable and balanced...

There are also some disparities between the top 4... But let me say it is really only the higher skilled players of those classes that you need to be worried about... And if you are playing one of the lower unbalanced classes and are highly skilled, then any of those"OP", "FOTM" mediocre players are easy kills... On my Mara or Merc... Those players die as easy as the rest... Is it a challenge to play against one of the skilled FOTM classes... Sure... But like I had to do with my Sorc for so long after we got nerfed... You just change your game play, tactics and expectations of the role you play

[Saikochoro]

As concealment operative in 3.0 it is not a matter of whether you can or not, it is a matter that by default you can't lose. And in arenas easiest is to stick to a ling sorc, you can easily shut him down while you can completely counter all the big hitters. And ccing during bastion is exactly the point. The fact you don't realise that this is exactly the point, the fact that you talk about big self-heals (which by the way didn't know I could play a madness/ling hybrid still) but not mentioning that healing is their main dcd given that they have zero damage reduction abilities, the fact that you even suggested at some point that they shouldn't even have barrier (how can I expect you to comprehend why bastion exists after that), the fact that you criticise the mobility of ling that was a spec that was never ever played in ranked arenas, the fact that you play the most broken class in the game (have you seen the video of 4 hatred sins annihilating everyone in group ranked?); well after all these it is pretty clear that you have no clue about the strengths and weaknesses of sorcs.

 

I have said in several posts that hatred is broken. I have never once denied that. Hatred is more broken than pt or any sorc spec. This thread is about sorcs though. Feel free to make a hatred is op thread and I will gladly post in it.

[MusicRider]

I have said in several posts that hatred is broken. I have never once denied that. Hatred is more broken than pt or any sorc spec. This thread is about sorcs though. Feel free to make a hatred is op thread and I will gladly post in it.

 

Out of the complete paragraph you commented on the least important bit. /rollseyes

[Saikochoro]

That is because I have already argued the other points several times. Don't care to keep on repeating myself. So I commented on the part we can both agree on. I will not convince you on my stance with sorcs and you will not convince me on yours. It's best to agree to disagree at this point.