Sorcs are BROKEN!!!

[Saikochoro]

Wow 33 pages and 19k views. Good job OP.

[Lattervane]

Wow 33 pages and 19k views. Good job OP.

 

Thank you!

[Cretinus]

Some people seem to believe that knights/warries in all speccs, flavours and colours have to be able to counter sorcs by nature, otherwise sorcs are uber. The news is, sorcs are surely not uber, because they can be countered even by more than 1 class, namely by PTs and Sins. Only because it's no longer warries/knights who counter sorcs doesn't mean that sorcs are now OP.

[Regentlord]

Some people seem to believe that knights/warries in all speccs, flavours and colours have to be able to counter sorcs by nature, otherwise sorcs are uber. The news is, sorcs are surely not uber, because they can be countered even by more than 1 class, namely by PTs and Sins. Only because it's no longer warries/knights who counter sorcs doesn't mean that sorcs are now OP.

 

Jesus Christ, this was the most retarded thing I have ever read.

[Cretinus]

Jesus Christ, this was the most retarded thing I have ever read.

 

You mean, you never revise what you write?

[Zadtro]

Some people seem to believe that knights/warries in all speccs, flavours and colours have to be able to counter sorcs by nature, otherwise sorcs are uber. The news is, sorcs are surely not uber, because they can be countered even by more than 1 class, namely by PTs and Sins. Only because it's no longer warries/knights who counter sorcs doesn't mean that sorcs are now OP.

 

The only reason those classes can counter is because they are currently overpowered so that does not really count.

[Saikochoro]

The only reason those classes can counter is because they are currently overpowered so that does not really count.

 

Yeah pretty much.

[Saikochoro]

You mean, you never revise what you write?

 

I revise my posts all the time. I make so many spelling errors. I assume he was talking about the content of your post.

[SithEater]

So a few points:

 

•There is not a single class out there that can not hit 1.2 mil dmg, 350k is high end self heals, the average is closer to 150-250k on the Bastion at level 60 pvp. Not sure why you are trying to balance around reg war zones anyway but that is another discussion.

 

•150-250k healing is not OP those are mostly self heals as that healing is considered their defensive CDs. Sorcs and Merc are suppose to have off heal capabilities because they are not a "pure" dps class. You guys do realize dark infusion was taken away from sorcs already? Meaning the dark heal they do have is a more resource heavy heal.

 

•Sorcs only move that make them immune to EVERYTHING is a self stun called force barrier. This is a 3 minute cool down so once it is blown and the buff is over they are almost naked. Some people decide to negate that buff by stunning that person once the barrier ends and others cry nerf, I recommend the first.

 

•Sorcs can be rooted and and interrupted a lot if you are actually watching their cast bar. Polarity shift which makes the uninterruptible, it is on about a minute and a half cd. You know what to do when a sorc is uninterruptible ? You use your knock back or that spare grenade I know everyone should have.

 

• you want to kill a dot class 1v1? Burst him down with a single target spec. If you cannot kill them in time this is probably because you need to get your skills up. Class balance does not revolve around 1v1s.

 

• Madness is so 2000 and late, it's all about lightning now. Personally I hope all the bad attention stays on madness so they don't my precious lightning.

 

• For that one guy in this thread that said sages weren't the same as their mirrors...lol you silly

 

Why did the thread even continue beyond this point? Balancing around regs is the real issue as well, hop on a Sorc/Sage in ranked and you will more than likely be the only one on your team. Then watch as the VG/PTs and Shadow/Sins burn your *** down, and after the Shadow/Sins come out of stealth and stun lock you, you better hope you get bubble off before the 2-3 VG/PTs shoulders cannons burn you from 80% health to nothing in about 2-3 seconds.

 

Balance for ranked, and let regs sort themselves out.

Edited January 20, 2015 by SithEater

[Saikochoro]

I see just as many sorcs as I do sins. They are both more prevalent than pts when I play. The matches I'm in usually have 2-4 sorcs between the two teams. Most classes that can get stun locked and bursted down by 2-3 pts. The difference is you can barrier out while many others don't have that same quality of anti focus tool. You really think you should be able to survive 2-3 pts burst? I can understand why you are defending sorcs if that is your standard. 3 pts can burst down pretty much any class. The only other class that has a clear escape from that burst is a sin with phase walk. Even operatives won't be able to escape a lot of the time because if they break the stun they will be immediately stunned again. Only sins and sorcs have a chance versus that burst....what do you know...the classes that most people are complaining about.

[MusicRider]

I see just as many sorcs as I do sins. They are both more prevalent than pts when I play. The matches I'm in usually have 2-4 sorcs between the two teams. Most classes that can get stun locked and bursted down by 2-3 pts. The difference is you can barrier out while many others don't have that same quality of anti focus tool. You really think you should be able to survive 2-3 pts burst? I can understand why you are defending sorcs if that is your standard. 3 pts can burst down pretty much any class. The only other class that has a clear escape from that burst is a sin with phase walk. Even operatives won't be able to escape a lot of the time because if they break the stun they will be immediately stunned again. Only sins and sorcs have a chance versus that burst....what do you know...the classes that most people are complaining about.

 

You mean dodge, roll, vanish, instant aoe mezz (flashbang) are not ways to avoid pts burst?

[Cretinus]

I revise my posts all the time. I make so many spelling errors. I assume he was talking about the content of your post.

 

You didn't get it, did you? Go back and read it again. Read what he wrote, then read my answer and then put both into perspective with each other.

[Saikochoro]

You mean dodge, roll, vanish, instant aoe mezz (flashbang) are not ways to avoid pts burst?

 

You aren't rolling anywhere if you are stunned. Dodge won't help you against shoulder cannon, magnetic blast, thermal detonator, or cell burst. The only thing it will protect you from is rail shot. But again you won't have it on if you are stunned. You aren't vanishing if you are stunned. If you do vanish one of the pts will just put stealth scan out. Flash bang would help if you weren't stunned and if your teammates wouldn't break the mez. Sins vanish would be much better than ops if they couldn't phase walk out. It would be a tad better as it would protect them from time bombs with a proc'd shroud. Shroud itself is a much better defense against or burst if they aren't stunned before they can put shroud up. The reason why sins and sorcs can survive is because they both have a power that puts them out of reach (behind an impervious barrier or teleported away). If the pts are decent at all they will stun the operative or other class immediately when they break the stun. If you are lucky and they are slow then yes you can roll out and vanish, but the decent players will just stun you immediately again.

[MusicRider]

You aren't rolling anywhere if you are stunned. Dodge won't help you against shoulder cannon, magnetic blast, thermal detonator, or cell burst. The only thing it will protect you from is rail shot. But again you won't have it on if you are stunned. You aren't vanishing if you are stunned. If you do vanish one of the pts will just put stealth scan out. Flash bang would help if you weren't stunned and if your teammates wouldn't break the mez. Sins vanish would be much better than ops if they couldn't phase walk out. It would be a tad better as it would protect them from time bombs with a proc'd shroud. Shroud itself is a much better defense against or burst if they aren't stunned before they can put shroud up. The reason why sins and sorcs can survive is because they both have a power that puts them out of reach (behind an impervious barrier or teleported away). If the pts are decent at all they will stun the operative or other class immediately when they break the stun. If you are lucky and they are slow then yes you can roll out and vanish, but the decent players will just stun you immediately again.

 

Let me rephrase question. You want to survive a multiple pts while being stunned scenario? Don't you use your stun breaker followed by one or two dcds. Also do you open from non-stealth? I can guarrantee you that in the many arenas I have played going first for operative has never really been go for the stealthed operative. Kind of hard to focus first something you cant see. And if you think sorcs dont need this barrier then I am afraid to say, you must be new in town and you can't understand that sorcs have none of your dcds.

 

EDIT: Did I repeat you have vanish? Oh you are stunned. But you are stealth... Certainly something wrong here.

Edited January 20, 2015 by MusicRider

[AvatarNL]

The game is just as balanced as it could be, there are no OP classes every class has its weakness as does its strengths, what people don't understand is this is a team oriented game especially in PvP. All they did was give the Sorc/Sage survivability

 

Glad you don't actually play this game since clearly you have NO idea what you just said.

 

Either that or you play a Sorc and just don't want to be nerfed to not be ungodly OP anymore.

[AvatarNL]

Let me rephrase question. You want to survive a multiple pts while being stunned scenario? Don't you use your stun breaker followed by one or two dcds. Also do you open from non-stealth? I can guarrantee you that in the many arenas I have played going first for operative has never really been go for the stealthed operative. Kind of hard to focus first something you cant see. And if you think sorcs dont need this barrier then I am afraid to say, you must be new in town and you can't understand that sorcs have none of your dcds.

 

EDIT: Did I repeat you have vanish? Oh you are stunned. But you are stealth... Certainly something wrong here.

 

and i read this... clearly you have never played an Op. since you have no idea how meaningless cloak is when you are consecutively stunned or even rooted. Cloak means "i give up because clearly i cant kill you because i either cant catch you or can't dps you down enough to make you care that i am even playing no matter what kind of gear i am wearing or what level you are."

 

not only that but its not just their bubble that is insanely OP but the fact that you can barely catch them, they can heal while moving, can become invincible and heal while you sit there helplessly and watch, can dps from a mile away and kill MULTIPLE people simultaneously while healing. Yeah... clearly you haven't actually played this game long enough to know what's going on.

Edited January 20, 2015 by AvatarNL

[AvatarNL]

I don't see a problem (yes I'm biased).

 

Any 'good' team (or just a really good Guardian/Jugg) can focus me and kill me very quickly without Force Barrier.

 

I'll admit, I'm not the best at pvp, but I regularly put up the numbers you posted, while focusing on objectives.

 

The 'op damage' will go down if people aren't grouped the entire game.

 

I regularly get ~60-150k damage each Recklessness from entire teams standing in Force Storm.

 

Edit: fully 186 augmented/174 left side/174 mh and oh/168 right side.

 

 

what i read:

 

I play a Sorc. Please don't make us kill-able. Please leave our broken class alone. I like making an entire team focus on Just one player (me) while the other members of my team are free to do whatever because i play a sorc and it take the entire other team to pretend they can kill me while i dish out more dps than their whole team while healing myself and holding a node.

[Saikochoro]

Let me rephrase question. You want to survive a multiple pts while being stunned scenario? Don't you use your stun breaker followed by one or two dcds. Also do you open from non-stealth? I can guarrantee you that in the many arenas I have played going first for operative has never really been go for the stealthed operative. Kind of hard to focus first something you cant see. And if you think sorcs dont need this barrier then I am afraid to say, you must be new in town and you can't understand that sorcs have none of your dcds.

 

EDIT: Did I repeat you have vanish? Oh you are stunned. But you are stealth... Certainly something wrong here.

 

Nobody should survive 3 pts burst while stunned. That is the point. You break the first stun, which is immediately followed by a second stun. You can break two stuns as an operative. Good players will just stun you again before you can do anything. That is called focus fire. Operatives shouldn't be able to survive that and they don't. Why in the world would I not open from stealth? I don't even know why you asked that. Once you open up your aren't invisible anymore. That is pretty basic game mechanics. Sorcs do need barrier, but they don't need bastion. I stated that the only two classes that have a clear defense against being stun locked and killed by 3 pts are sins and sorcs. The reasoning is because they each have a power that takes them out of focus that can be used while stunned. I'm not sure how you aren't understanding that.

[SithEater]

not only that but its not just their bubble that is insanely OP but the fact that you can barely catch them, they can heal while moving, can become invincible and heal while you sit there helplessly and watch, can dps from a mile away and kill MULTIPLE people simultaneously while healing. Yeah... clearly you haven't actually played this game long enough to know what's going on.

Can barely catch them? Who can barely catch them? Scroundrel/OP with their rolls? Or Warriors/Knights with their leaps? Or Shadow/Sins with the exact same ability as Sage/Sorc or maybe Force Pull? Or VG/PTs with Hydraulic Overrides and Hold the Line and Harpoon? Just because Sage/Sorc no longer are turrets all of a sudden we "can't be caught" lol.

 

And if you are sitting there watching a Sage/Sorc while bubbled that has more to do with your effectiveness as a teammate than it does the heals they get while bubbled, IF they took that utility.

[Savej]

Can barely catch them? Who can barely catch them? Scroundrel/OP with their rolls? Or Warriors/Knights with their leaps? Or Shadow/Sins with the exact same ability as Sage/Sorc or maybe Force Pull? Or VG/PTs with Hydraulic Overrides and Hold the Line and Harpoon? Just because Sage/Sorc no longer are turrets all of a sudden we "can't be caught" lol.

 

And if you are sitting there watching a Sage/Sorc while bubbled that has more to do with your effectiveness as a teammate than it does the heals they get while bubbled, IF they took that utility.

 

Sorcs have more kbs + sprints per min than warriors have leaps (unless they're focus spec, but that 2nd leap isn't really a gap closer and is very short range).

[SithEater]

I see just as many sorcs as I do sins. They are both more prevalent than pts when I play. The matches I'm in usually have 2-4 sorcs between the two teams. Most classes that can get stun locked and bursted down by 2-3 pts. The difference is you can barrier out while many others don't have that same quality of anti focus tool. You really think you should be able to survive 2-3 pts burst? I can understand why you are defending sorcs if that is your standard. 3 pts can burst down pretty much any class. The only other class that has a clear escape from that burst is a sin with phase walk. Even operatives won't be able to escape a lot of the time because if they break the stun they will be immediately stunned again. Only sins and sorcs have a chance versus that burst....what do you know...the classes that most people are complaining about.

I don't know where you play your ranked matches but Shadow/Sin and PT/VG are 3/4 of most ranked matches I am in and quite often I am the only Sage/Sorc in the match on either team.

 

Once the VG/PTs have blown their wad on whoever is targeted first, whoever else is on the team is safe from that particular danger so whats it matter who else would survive what? Once the bubble has been used their big defensive cooldown is done and so even if you switch to another target while they're bubbled then when you do get back to them their ace in the hole has already been blown. And unlike ALL other classes its the only DCD that essentially removes the class from the fight for its duration, meaning you aint doing **** for damage except maybe one or two DOTs and as TK/Lightning that doesn't amount to much. Everyone else can pop their DCDs and still lay out damage, so while its the best DCD defense-wise its mitigated heavily by the fact its essentially a 3 on 4 fight while its active.

[SithEater]

what i read:

 

I play a Sorc. Please don't make us kill-able. Please leave our broken class alone. I like making an entire team focus on Just one player (me) while the other members of my team are free to do whatever because i play a sorc and it take the entire other team to pretend they can kill me while i dish out more dps than their whole team while healing myself and holding a node.

What I read:

I only do regs and have no real idea about how classes should be balanced because I only know as much as the numbers on the board say at the end of the match and numbers not only never lie but they are also the holy grail of PVP.

[Saikochoro]

I don't know where you play your ranked matches but Shadow/Sin and PT/VG are 3/4 of most ranked matches I am in and quite often I am the only Sage/Sorc in the match on either team.

 

Once the VG/PTs have blown their wad on whoever is targeted first, whoever else is on the team is safe from that particular danger so whats it matter who else would survive what? Once the bubble has been used their big defensive cooldown is done and so even if you switch to another target while they're bubbled then when you do get back to them their ace in the hole has already been blown. And unlike ALL other classes its the only DCD that essentially removes the class from the fight for its duration, meaning you aint doing **** for damage except maybe one or two DOTs and as TK/Lightning that doesn't amount to much. Everyone else can pop their DCDs and still lay out damage, so while its the best DCD defense-wise its mitigated heavily by the fact its essentially a 3 on 4 fight while its active.

 

I was responding to a particular comment not about sorcs in general. There are other DCD that take the player out of combat. No sorcs cannot attack while they have barrier up. Neither can ops or sins when they use their combat stealth. While they are stealthed it is the same as while the sorc is in barrier. They aren't contributing to the fight. As soon as they attack the benefit of the stealth is gone. Maras also cannot attack while force camo is active. Once they do the benefit ends. Barrier is not the only cooldown that doesn't allows the player to deal damage.

[Yezzan]

So how come a Vigi Guardian (me), sage, trooper, shadow won death math (2 nll) vs 3 sorcs and a jugg?

 

I see youtube vids with sorcerers in PvP and the thing that stands out is that they are usually ignored. People cluster, which is an invitation to spam force storm or use death field.

 

People forget that force barrier means the sorc was loosing that fight. No point in popping FB unless you about to die.

 

Every class is OP except Maras/Sent, and they just need ot be buffed. What BW needs to do is tone down the stunns and immunities. Thats why people aren't dying anyways.

[Saikochoro]

Every class is not op. There are the upper range of classes, the mid range, and the bottom of the barrel. I'd put them in the following categories.

 

Upper Range:

Hated sins

Sorcs

AP PT

Vengeance jugg

Op healer

 

Mid range:

Merc healer

Concealment op

Rage jugg

Darkness sin

PT tank

Jugg tank

 

Bottom:

DPS merc

Deception sin

Maras

Lethality ops

Snipers

Pyro PT

 

 

They are in no particular order within the general categories. In general the top tier classes need to be brought down. Some slightly and some a little more than slightly. Mid range classes are generally fine. Bottom range classes need brought up. Some slightly and some a little more than slightly. That's the way I see it anyway.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Saikochoro