Why was I charged tax on my origin purchase?

[Andryah]

At the moment many states' tax legislature excludes most online purchases of non-tangible physical items. Which is the case here, even if EA/BioWare has physical offices in the state, they shouldn't be able to collect taxes on things they are putting in your actual hands -- that especially holds true in Texas.

 

I can't hold a pile of Cartel Coins or Bioware Points or Mass Effect Credits or the Rise of the Hutt Cartel Digital expansion, therefore its not a tangible item. If they want to collect taxes they should do so with their cards -- not their pixels and hard-drive space.

 

I'll certainly be informing the Attorney General with a letter of this practice.

 

LOL... the Attorney General will probably inquire as to what you have bought online, paid no sales taxes on, and also have not reported "use tax" payment to the state. So be careful the fights you pick.

[Roalmo]

Note in advance: If EA has even one sale rep in the state, that meets the legal definition of "presence" under tax laws.

 

.. I read that as EA wanting to not deal with the various different laws and regulations by state and just collecting in every state.. which they can legally do. ...

 

 

This is funny... actually LOL'd...

[Blackardin]

Just because a business does not have a nexus in a state doesn't mean they are not allowed to collect sales tax and give that money to the state of Indiana. They are simply saving you the hassle of having to claim the use tax.

 

In my state, you are required to declare, for tax purposes, any item bought out of state if the company did not charge said sales tax. It matters not where the company is located.

[Tatanka]

Don't waste your state AG office's time by contacting them. Contact your state's revenue department and inquire about the tax status of the corporation in question. Be upfront and honest with your inquiry regarding out of state company X that has suddenly started collecting taxes on transactions and whether they are paying those taxes to the state.

 

Even a company as shady as EA would not risk collecting taxes if they were not paying them to the appropriate governments. That would simply be too easy a target for their detractors and business suicide given the current financial and political climate in the country.

[Risq]

Wait! Really? I am completely unfamiliar with such a law and I keep in pretty good know about this topic. Can you link me to it?

 

Here's the Link from Yahoo:

 

Possible Internet Sales tax Law

 

But this law is for the transfer of "Physical Goods and Services" not just IP.

 

But for the record EA\Origin started collecting this months "BEFORE" the law was even voted on. That's pretty advanced CYA if you ask me.

 

Also It really amazes me how many people offer Tax Law facts as if they are either attorney's or work for online retailers facing this daily. I've read 3 pages of them so far and I'm tickled at what I'm seeing.

 

I agree with the OP and also live in Indiana. They don't have a presence and for Indiana this is not for digital or tangible goods as defined by Indiana law. This type of service has always been exempt from taxes:

Indiana's Intangible Tax Law

 

Personally I'm also curious why states that have not been subject to tax laws are suddenly being subjected. Almost like it was easier to make everyone pay taxes with-in their system than just the ones who live in states who are required to pay them.

[DarthTHC]

I'm sure it's just EA committing a felony by charging you for something that's not a tax but telling you it's a tax.

 

 

That was sarcasm if you didn't catch it, Sheldon.

Edited May 22, 2013 by DarthTHC

[Risq]

I'm sure it's just EA committing a felony by charging you for something that's not a tax but telling you it's a tax.

 

 

That was sarcasm if you didn't catch it, Sheldon.

The OP nor I ever suggested they were committing a felony. The only question we asked was "why they are suddenly doing it" since it's not supported by the laws of our state nor any "current" Federal Law.

 

Now since some folks are obvious "fanboi's and girls" it always makes me giggle when they can't dispute facts they don't understand they suddenly get "humorous" as if that suddenly makes up for a complete lack of understanding on their part.

 

And that's my stab at sarcasm if you missed it.

[Arkerus]

The OP nor I ever suggested they were committing a felony. The only question we asked was "why they are suddenly doing it" since it's not supported by the laws of our state nor any "current" Federal Law.

 

Now since some folks are obvious "fanboi's and girls" it always makes me giggle when they can't dispute facts they don't understand they suddenly get "humorous" as if that suddenly makes up for a complete lack of understanding on their part.

 

And that's my stab at sarcasm if you missed it.

 

It's been reported in this thread dozens of times.

 

Many states are going after online retailers to start charging the correct tax where you are located BECAUSE technically you are required to report it when you file your income tax.

 

It's not anything illegal. It's just that many online retailers don't because technically You are supposed to do it.

[Risq]

It's been reported in this thread dozens of times.

 

Many states are going after online retailers to start charging the correct tax where you are located BECAUSE technically you are required to report it when you file your income tax.

 

It's not anything illegal. It's just that many online retailers don't because technically You are supposed to do it.

 

*Sigh*

 

While it's been "reported" multiple times by posters in this thread, those are "incorrect facts" based on people opinions and not on any Tax code or law I've read to date.

 

What I did was I link the "INDIANA TAX LAW" code in my first post about what "INDIANA" is expecting from it's residents. Not one person who suggested that they "knew" (or what they "personally" believed) what EA was doing has yet to link an Indiana State or Federal law that suggest otherwise to back up their claim.

 

Now are you a Tax lawyer and/or can point me to a different tax code? If so I would really love to hear why the Tax code I posted is either wrong or dated. But I also ask, or are you just guessing based on how you believe it works?

 

Although if you are in fact a Tax lawyer, I would love to see the Indiana code (or Federal one that applies to Indiana) that suggest otherwise.

 

But if you're not a lawyer or an accountant for Indiana Tax laws, personally I'd like to hear from EA on why they are doing it.

[Arkerus]

*Sigh*

 

While it's been "reported" multiple times by posters in this thread, those are "incorrect facts" based on people opinions and not on any Tax code or law I've read to date.

 

What I did was I link the "INDIANA TAX LAW" code in my first post about what "INDIANA" is expecting from it's residents. Not one person who suggested that they "knew" (or what they "personally" believed) what EA was doing has yet to link an Indiana State or Federal law that suggest otherwise to back up their claim.

 

Now are you a Tax lawyer and/or can point me to a different tax code? If so I would really love to hear why the Tax code I posted is either wrong or dated. But I also ask, or are you just guessing based on how you believe it works?

 

Although if you are in fact a Tax lawyer, I would love to see the Indiana code (or Federal one that applies to Indiana) that suggest otherwise.

 

But if you're not a lawyer or an accountant for Indiana Tax laws, personally I'd like to hear from EA on why they are doing it.

 

If your state has a sales tax a guarantee you that you are required to technically pay for online purchases.

 

Trust me Sherlock, EA isnt doing anything illegal.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Arkerus

[Andryah]

*Sigh*

 

While it's been "reported" multiple times by posters in this thread, those are "incorrect facts" based on people opinions and not on any Tax code or law I've read to date.

 

What I did was I link the "INDIANA TAX LAW" code in my first post about what "INDIANA" is expecting from it's residents. Not one person who suggested that they "knew" (or what they "personally" believed) what EA was doing has yet to link an Indiana State or Federal law that suggest otherwise to back up their claim.

 

Now are you a Tax lawyer and/or can point me to a different tax code? If so I would really love to hear why the Tax code I posted is either wrong or dated. But I also ask, or are you just guessing based on how you believe it works?

 

Although if you are in fact a Tax lawyer, I would love to see the Indiana code (or Federal one that applies to Indiana) that suggest otherwise.

 

But if you're not a lawyer or an accountant for Indiana Tax laws, personally I'd like to hear from EA on why they are doing it.

 

Internet Sales Tax Law, as it pertains to Indiana: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/indiana-internet-sales-tax.html

 

Be sure to read the part about required reporting and payment of "use tax" for any and all internet purchases you make as a citizen of Indiana. EA is doing you a favor by collecting it and sending it to the state of Indiana as a sales tax such that you are not required to meet your legal tax burden for "use tax". EA may not be required under current law to collect for Indiana.. but they are allowed to do so and I'm sure Indiana appreciates the tax revenue as a result.... since it is near impossible for Indiana to catch all you use-tax dodgers.

 

You don't have to be a tax lawyer to understand your legal tax obligations.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Andryah

[Seravie]

I love these armchair lawyers that always try making threads about sales tax, or false advertising etc, it's funny seeing which ones paid attention during govt in high school, but in reality it's sad posting on a forum, if you want to feel important fight for something that really matters like genocide in africa, that's important to stop,

[Beranzen]

You do realize that EA doesn't control taxes right?

[Genghistwelve]

Charged a taxt on your Origin purchase?

 

Just wait until your charged a tax (penalty) for just being a living, breathing U.S. citizen.

[JacenHallis]

Indiana's Intangible Tax Law

An article written in 1935 about tax law is not going to take digital goods into account. The State of Indiana, however, does:

 

IC 6-2.5-4-16.4

Specified digital products

Sec. 16.4. (a) As used in this section, "end user" does not include a person who receives by contract a product transferred electronically for further commercial broadcast, rebroadcast, transmission, retransmission, licensing, relicensing, distribution, redistribution, or exhibition of the product, in whole or in part, to another person or persons.

(b) A person is a retail merchant making a retail transaction when the person:

(1) electronically transfers specified digital products to an end user; and

(2) grants to the end user the right of permanent use of the specified digital products that is not conditioned upon continued payment by the purchaser.

© The sale of a digital code that may be used to obtain a product transferred electronically shall be taxed in the same manner as the product transferred electronically. As used in this subsection, a digital code means a method that permits a purchaser to obtain at a later date a product transferred electronically.

 

Link: http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title6/ar2.5/ch4.html

Edited May 22, 2013 by JacenHallis

[KalanYore]

Hello everybody!...

Here is the response from Customer Svc that responded to my ticket...for privacy of using our real names will be censored only...

 

Greetings XXXX,

 

My name is XXXXXX and I am part of the Star Wars ™: The Old Republic™ Customer Service team. I wanted to thank you for contacting us with your question about taxation and confirm we have received your request. I completely understand your position on not paying tax that is not legally required and I wanted to assure you that we do work closely with your state and federal tax authorities to ensure that we are in compliance the applicable tax regulations for the jurisdictions that we do business in.

 

As such our current taxation of your charges is in keeping with the information that we have on file for the requisite charges that need to be made for your jurisdiction. Should you wish to query this we would recommend that you contact your state tax authority and inquire into the tax eligibility of these services.

 

Should after contact your state authority indicate that they are not taxable please reply back to the copy of my message that I am sending to your registered email and if possible include a copy of the state tax authority's response as an attachment. We will at that time forward it to our legal department and they will take the appropriate actions at that time as required under applicable law.

 

Thank you for your patience and understanding on this matter. Should you require assistance with any other issues, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

 

Regards,

 

XXXXXX

Star Wars ™: The Old Republic™ Customer Service

 

Now you can invite your friends to try out Star Wars: The Old Republic for free. Visit http://www.swtor.com/info/friends for more information, and help them get started today!

 

We would love to hear your feedback on our Customer Service and invite you to fill out the following survey to help us to continually improve our support!

https://www.research.net/s/TOREN?c=U5-L99959398

[GalacticKegger]

Does the OP truly want results? Then perhaps this needs to be taken up with the respective governmental agencies responsible for state & federal taxation and not a public forum hosted by a game company that is simply complying with the laws they were given. Otherwise this thread could easily be confused for a gang bang style wall tagging exercise. Edited August 19, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[mathisk]

He probably doesn't, now. The last time this tread was touched was back in May.

 

Not sure this thread needed to be revived.

[GalacticKegger]

He probably doesn't, now. The last time this tread was touched was back in May.

 

Not sure this thread needed to be revived.

Agreed. But griefers would have jumped on the bandwagon. Fantasizing about new people seeing and being affected by their BS makes their day. I rather enjoy watching those types wail in angst when confronted with common sense. Edited August 19, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[KalanYore]

Everyone has to know that sale or use tax are within the jurisdiction of where you reside of your state of all sales of tangible goods & services as being the buyer/consumer that engages in the lawful sale or service from the established licensed & registered entities of conducting commercial commerce that are identified as the "vendor,retailer,seller,service provider" in your state... as for out-of-state entities has to either be, having a physical-presence and/or has affiliations that is associated to the parent company in order to be taxed and apply sale or use tax from customers... there is no crossing the borders to grab taxes from other states!!!

Why do you think that states have tried to pass bills in order to collect "all" sales/use taxes from any online e-commerce business regardless of what the product or service is?... Which has met w/ defeat of being vetoed or the bill is founded unconstitutional and/or will cause heavy burden(s) or other issues in the language of those bills...I know and maybe you do know too that nearly every state in the nation is hurting to have a budget to run on...as our elected officials are doing just that which are split or unified on the subject.

In my State of Colorado; the Amazon Tax Law; also known as The Amazon Act was passed in 2010 but never was "enforced"; that is the key word to understand clearly... later this law was temporarily blocked by our federal supreme court in 2011 then was killed by a federal judge ruling as of April 2012 as being "unconstitutional".

The democratic party nor the Dept. Of Revenue had filed for an appeal to the judge's ruling because I believe the federal bill that was being introduced called "Marketplace Fairness Act 2013" was to solve all the issues of failed bills in many states...this bill was to be voted on of May 2013 in D.C. of this year to establish clear cut laws/regulations so "all" states has the ability to legally apply their sale/use tax laws from out-of-state entities that are not having a physical presence in their states this includes mail order companies or small businesses and all online e-commerce transactions of goods & services....But as this bill does not include international commercial commerce of goods & services - wanna know why??? Because the US cannot enforce upon other nations to collect sales/use taxes and remit payment to any state where the buyer is resided nor to report all the sales of any transaction of record between what is defined as a seller and buyer for auditing purposes in the accordance to follow the laws / policies that is subject to penalty / liability...in a way this is a similiar issue and burden that is imposed between states!

My state again has suspended this new bill by the federal district court until a ruling is made to ensure transparency and that it is constitutional?... not only on the federal level but at the state level as well - that there is no problems w/ the language of the bill in order to work and not to cause or open up to legal liabilities between states? and so on...

Other game products I've purchased online from EA prior 2013 or any other gaming company prior to & in 2013...I was never charged of any sale or use tax... but as of April 2013 EA; has been charging a sale/use tax on my subscription and 1 cartel coin transaction... as my state has no law to enforce or impose at the present moment until there is a ruling of the recent bill?... I being taxed at 3.7%... while "IF" it was imposed by my state that it should be 2.9% rate according to my state's dept. of revenue website page of current rate.

All games that I bought from retail stores like; GameStop or Best Buy or Walmart and Target of course I was charged tax in my state as they are physically-present, lic. / registered to have commercial commerce in my state and I was also charged tax from these retailers' online store because they are physically present...and that is ok.

When I order online or mail order or by phone from other companies or private sellers that are out -of -state not having a physical presence... I am not charged a sale/use tax as there is no laws at the federal level or between states to enforce "all" out-of -state sellers to apply the sale/use tax and remit that collected tax to the appropriate state... unless they are physically present in the same state as of the buyer!...Consumers as the buyer that travels outside their state are in the jurisdiction of the state they are visiting or traveling through will pay that state's applicable taxes of taxable goods or services.

Ending notes is to ask "why" all of the sudden that EA is charging a sale / use tax for the pasts several months?!?

I will definitely contact my state senator , the Dept. Of Revenue, and also FTC...

I advise all others to do the same and also research the "Marketplace Fairness Act 2013" to see if your state falls under the 2 categories titled "Streamlined States and Use Tax Agreement"... ( SSUTA ) Full Member States (22 states) and the ( SSUTA ) Associate Member States (2 states) as for my state has place that bill under suspension until our federal district court can make a ruling to the District of Colorado.

[GalacticKegger]

Everyone has to know that sale or use tax are within the jurisdiction of where you reside of your state of all sales of tangible goods & services as being the buyer/consumer that engages in the lawful sale or service from the established licensed & registered entities of conducting commercial commerce that are identified as the "vendor,retailer,seller,service provider" in your state... as for out-of-state entities has to either be, having a physical-presence and/or has affiliations that is associated to the parent company in order to be taxed and apply sale or use tax from customers... there is no crossing the borders to grab taxes from other states!!!

Why do you think that states have tried to pass bills in order to collect "all" sales/use taxes from any online e-commerce business regardless of what the product or service is?... Which has met w/ defeat of being vetoed or the bill is founded unconstitutional and/or will cause heavy burden(s) or other issues in the language of those bills...I know and maybe you do know too that nearly every state in the nation is hurting to have a budget to run on...as our elected officials are doing just that which are split or unified on the subject.

In my State of Colorado; the Amazon Tax Law; also known as The Amazon Act was passed in 2010 but never was "enforced"; that is the key word to understand clearly... later this law was temporarily blocked by our federal supreme court in 2011 then was killed by a federal judge ruling as of April 2012 as being "unconstitutional".

The democratic party nor the Dept. Of Revenue had filed for an appeal to the judge's ruling because I believe the federal bill that was being introduced called "Marketplace Fairness Act 2013" was to solve all the issues of failed bills in many states...this bill was to be voted on of May 2013 in D.C. of this year to establish clear cut laws/regulations so "all" states has the ability to legally apply their sale/use tax laws from out-of-state entities that are not having a physical presence in their states this includes mail order companies or small businesses and all online e-commerce transactions of goods & services....But as this bill does not include international commercial commerce of goods & services - wanna know why??? Because the US cannot enforce upon other nations to collect sales/use taxes and remit payment to any state where the buyer is resided nor to report all the sales of any transaction of record between what is defined as a seller and buyer for auditing purposes in the accordance to follow the laws / policies that is subject to penalty / liability...in a way this is a similiar issue and burden that is imposed between states!

My state again has suspended this new bill by the federal district court until a ruling is made to ensure transparency and that it is constitutional?... not only on the federal level but at the state level as well - that there is no problems w/ the language of the bill in order to work and not to cause or open up to legal liabilities between states? and so on...

Other game products I've purchased online from EA prior 2013 or any other gaming company prior to & in 2013...I was never charged of any sale or use tax... but as of April 2013 EA; has been charging a sale/use tax on my subscription and 1 cartel coin transaction... as my state has no law to enforce or impose at the present moment until there is a ruling of the recent bill?... I being taxed at 3.7%... while "IF" it was imposed by my state that it should be 2.9% rate according to my state's dept. of revenue website page of current rate.

All games that I bought from retail stores like; GameStop or Best Buy or Walmart and Target of course I was charged tax in my state as they are physically-present, lic. / registered to have commercial commerce in my state and I was also charged tax from these retailers' online store because they are physically present...and that is ok.

When I order online or mail order or by phone from other companies or private sellers that are out -of -state not having a physical presence... I am not charged a sale/use tax as there is no laws at the federal level or between states to enforce "all" out-of -state sellers to apply the sale/use tax and remit that collected tax to the appropriate state... unless they are physically present in the same state as of the buyer!...Consumers as the buyer that travels outside their state are in the jurisdiction of the state they are visiting or traveling through will pay that state's applicable taxes of taxable goods or services.

Ending notes is to ask "why" all of the sudden that EA is charging a sale / use tax for the pasts several months?!?

I will definitely contact my state senator , the Dept. Of Revenue, and also FTC...

I advise all others to do the same and also research the "Marketplace Fairness Act 2013" to see if your state falls under the 2 categories titled "Streamlined States and Use Tax Agreement"... ( SSUTA ) Full Member States (22 states) and the ( SSUTA ) Associate Member States (2 states) as for my state has place that bill under suspension until our federal district court can make a ruling to the District of Colorado.

Not legally binding, but definitely food (healthy food) for thought. Excellent stuff.

[dakajojo]

WHY is the thread being revived? This is not a SWTOR related topic or issue, it is an EA/Origin tax collecting issue that really shouldn't have been posted here in the first place. Let this thread die already.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Because some things are timeless.

[Master-Nala]

At the moment many states' tax legislature excludes most online purchases of non-tangible physical items. Which is the case here, even if EA/BioWare has physical offices in the state, they shouldn't be able to collect taxes on things they are putting in your actual hands -- that especially holds true in Texas.

 

I can't hold a pile of Cartel Coins or Bioware Points or Mass Effect Credits or the Rise of the Hutt Cartel Digital expansion, therefore its not a tangible item. If they want to collect taxes they should do so with their cards -- not their pixels and hard-drive space.

 

I'll certainly be informing the Attorney General with a letter of this practice.

 

IC 6-2.5-1-27

"Tangible personal property"

Sec. 27. "Tangible personal property" means personal property

that:

(1) can be seen, weighed, measured, felt, or touched; or

(2) is in any other manner perceptible to the senses.

The term includes electricity, water, gas, steam, and prewritten

computer software.

As added by P.L.257-2003, SEC.18.

 

I am not an Indiana lawyer (I am a lawyer elsewhere), but in any event this is not legal advice and should not be construed as such. I'm posting this link to the Indiana Code to illustrate that words may have a broader meaning in the law than their common usage. I suggest that the OP and other internet lawyers not waste their time. Just call your State's Revenue Department and ask whether it's appropriate.

 

For the OP, here's where you get the contact info for your state's revenue department:

 

http://www.in.gov/dor/3325.htm

Edited August 19, 2013 by Master-Nala