Refund training costs [yes] / [no]

[Khevar]

LOL What about your Alts?

You can Need refunds for an Alt as long as you clear it with the group beforehand.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Khevar

[Rafaman]

BW did something they did not have to do. The whining over spending creds on training in a game where you can easily make back the creds by playing.... by playing the game! was, IMO, ridiculous.

 

And yet, BW listened. They removed the training costs altogether to help every one leveling and not just the pre-oder junkies of which I'm one. A good QoL improvement despite my thoughts on the matter. And I bet they expected a very positive reaction.

 

But no. That is not the way it works with the fickle MMO player base. Now some people including those pushing for a resolution to the training "issue" want their creds refunded. They feel slighted even though BW went above and beyond with an unexpected solution. The heroic cries of "it is for the greater good of the game" are nowhere to be found. Lol! Nice...

 

That is what makes others take note and come out against it LA. It is not hard to understand. Quite simply, the game was improved whether you wanted it or not. All benefit. That should be payment enough.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Rafaman

[Sorwen]

You sound jealous.

No, I'm annoyed.

 

exactly my thoughts too

They could have even put a message on our launchers seen as some people dont visit the forums often

Yes, anything would have been nice and that would have been really nice. Just a news spot on the launcher. I was just saying they couldn't even put out the most minimal of effort to warn people. Creating the thread in the first place took more effort than to sticky the thing so people could see it.

 

Again, it's not hard to make money, and it's not hard to learn to make money. In fact, it requires less effort than raging on the forums, and in my opinion, is far more rewarding.

No, it isn't hard for you to make money. You can't judge the effort required for me to make money.

[Andrellma]

No.

 

Take your sense of entitlement and move along.

[_NovaBlast_]

No.

 

Take your sense of entitlement and move along.

 

 

+1

 

 

No, it isn't hard for you to make money. You can't judge the effort required for me to make money.

 

Umm yes they can your statement makes no sense. Other than GTN the method of making credits are the same for all players ( dallies mob kills chests etc...). Whether or not you choose to take advantage of said methods is a choice.

Edited December 9, 2014 by _NovaBlast_

[Jawsers]

ITT: Forum PVPers aka trash players.

[Deewe]

The poll should have instead given the options Need? or Greed?

 

I will /sign that petition!

Next petition!

 

 

Interesting how close are the results and then 1 vote out of 5 don't care!

[Andryah]

Umm yes they can your statement makes no sense. Other than GTN the method of making credits are the same for all players ( dallies mob kills chests etc...). Whether or not you choose to take advantage of said methods is a choice.

 

True in the strictest sense.. but there are literally many ways to make use of the GTN for wealth creation.

 

Some farm and sell rare items. Some buy low, resell high or hold and sell higher later. Crafters... obvious what they do and how. Gatherers gather materials and sell them for profit.

 

The buy/sell players have hundreds of niches in the market they can play for wealth. It's a very target rich environment.

 

The real beauty of the GTN is time leverage. You spend a minimal amount of time buying/listing/collecting profits once a day. and the rest of the 24 hour day works for you whether you are in game or not. It's beauty, when played sincerely.

[BalpaChdal]

#noway #swtor #yolo

[LtBombshell]

I get it- some people spent 2 million creds per toon upgrading to their level 60 abilities. But I see people on Youtube, Twitch, as well as around here on the forums who literally have millions of credits, and to them, 2 mil is nothing. My point being, yes, those of us who don't have millions of credits lying around got hurt, but in the long run, it's only 2 million credits. That can be made back by the really dedicated in a week, and by the more casual in about a month (if you're going really slowly).

 

 

So my vote is no, and that's why.

[LordArtemis]

How about the argument that rewarding bad behavior (in this case, baseless complaints, whining, tantrums) serves only to encourage the same bad behavior in the future? Is that a valid argument against refunds?

 

No. Video game players are not known to be paramounts of good behavior. If that was the criteria they would have to ignore almost all of the suggestions ever made.

 

Having raised a child from birth to productive, contributing adult member of society, I'm going to say yes, yes it is.

 

Fair enough. Having raised 7 all the way through college, I am going to say no...for a message board or video game. The way to punish bad behavior on a board or in a game is to ban bad apples....and there are quite a few bad apples here that should not be here IMO. They do FAR more damage to the game, its longevity and ability to welcome new casual players than any amount of selfishness ever will. Yet they remain.

 

The day those predatory trolls are removed from the forum and the game is the day I will support punishing players for being selfish.

Edited December 10, 2014 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

My objection, as I have stated a number of times in different threads is: it would require them to take time, resources, and effort to build an automated process that can look-up ACTUAL expenses by a character then package and send the credit to the character in the mail.

 

...which I would point out is one of the few reasons I find very logical and sensible. This is certainly NOT an issue that should require resources. If it was easy, great, if not, there are other more important problems IMO.

 

What could go wrong right? Let's see... bugs.. where the money goes the wrong character for some reason... or mail just never arrives for some reason... or the player behind the character decides that the amount is incorrect (based on their bad memory, or notes) and demands more credits. just to name a few.

 

All good points.

 

We have an brand new xpac in play... with bugs that need stomping post haste. I do not want Bioware resources taken away from this just to build an automated process (and debug it) just to please a disaffected minority.

 

I agree. If it does take resources, I would rather they be used elsewhere. And I also speculate they are likely a minority...I expect most are satisfied with the removal of the cost to train from here forward.

 

Then again.. I guess they could just hire 100 contractors in India to do the entire process manually... but the negative results would be the same, perhaps worse.. because this is the last thing you want to do manually.

 

People need to drop it. It's a nice concept.. but a teribad idea right now. And frankly next month.. people will have forgotten all about it as they are boiling the next pet peeve in their pot_of_discontent.

 

Sometimes the player base just needs to suck it up and move on. This is one of those times.

 

You may be right, but I would still contend that I do not stand against a refund, only that I will not pursue one myself. I am satisfied. I expect Bioware will likely come to the right decision on this matter.

[Max_Killjoy]

I'm happy that this experience has prompted BW to make future training free. This is a good change.

 

As for a refund, I don't care either way enough to get worked up about it. The only thing I don't get is someone being viciously opposed to some sort of refund.

[Halinalle]

I only leveled one character to 60 and multiple others to 56/57. Why because I wanted to see the full story first on one character before I start rushing to 60 on other characters. My Sorc was stuck on Rishi for few days because of Meat Tree. Edited December 10, 2014 by Halinalle

[KyaniteD]

My objection, as I have stated a number of times in different threads is: it would require them to take time, resources, and effort to build an automated process that can look-up ACTUAL expenses by a character then package and send the credit to the character in the mail.

...which I would point out is one of the few reasons I find very logical and sensible. This is certainly NOT an issue that should require resources. If it was easy, great, if not, there are other more important problems IMO.

 

What could go wrong right? Let's see... bugs.. where the money goes the wrong character for some reason... or mail just never arrives for some reason... or the player behind the character decides that the amount is incorrect (based on their bad memory, or notes) and demands more credits. just to name a few.

All good points.

 

We have an brand new xpac in play... with bugs that need stomping post haste. I do not want Bioware resources taken away from this just to build an automated process (and debug it) just to please a disaffected minority.

I agree. If it does take resources, I would rather they be used elsewhere. And I also speculate they are likely a minority...I expect most are satisfied with the removal of the cost to train from here forward.

 

Then again.. I guess they could just hire 100 contractors in India to do the entire process manually... but the negative results would be the same, perhaps worse.. because this is the last thing you want to do manually.

 

People need to drop it. It's a nice concept.. but a teribad idea right now. And frankly next month.. people will have forgotten all about it as they are boiling the next pet peeve in their pot_of_discontent.

 

Sometimes the player base just needs to suck it up and move on. This is one of those times.

You may be right, but I would still contend that I do not stand against a refund, only that I will not pursue one myself. I am satisfied. I expect Bioware will likely come to the right decision on this matter.

 

You two have it worked out quite nicely and it bears repeating, thank you. I agree with you both. I would not stand against a refund but I will not actively pursue it because I think the expenses would far surpass the benefits, given how comparatively easily credits are earned in this game (and saved in the future through free training).

[LilSaihah]

Why stop at refunding training costs since 3.0? Let's refund all training costs ever!

[LordArtemis]

Well, I wish those luck that are pursuing recompense. Perhaps they may be convinced to do so, anything is possible naturally.

[VanderII]

/Yes, at least fthe cost I sustained from level 55 to 60.

[Heal-To-Full]

If the training costs are refunded, all the credits taken from Yavin and Rishi chests - placed there specifically to cover these costs - should be removed or adjusted to their new content as well.

[DarthTHC]

No. Video game players are not known to be paramounts of good behavior. If that was the criteria they would have to ignore almost all of the suggestions ever made.

 

 

 

Fair enough. Having raised 7 all the way through college, I am going to say no...for a message board or video game. The way to punish bad behavior on a board or in a game is to ban bad apples....and there are quite a few bad apples here that should not be here IMO. They do FAR more damage to the game, its longevity and ability to welcome new casual players than any amount of selfishness ever will. Yet they remain.

 

The day those predatory trolls are removed from the forum and the game is the day I will support punishing players for being selfish.

 

Woah there big guy. Where did I say anything about PUNISHING for bad behavior?

 

Mais non, I said DO NOT REWARD bad behavior. There is a HUGE, IMPORTANT difference.

Edited December 10, 2014 by DarthTHC

[LordArtemis]

Woah there big guy. Where did I say anything about PUNISHING for bad behavior?

 

Mais non, I said DO NOT REWARD bad behavior. There is a HUGE, IMPORTANT difference.

 

Fair enough, and of course I am stretching it a bit.

 

I suppose my point would be that what one considers bad behavior another may consider acceptable behavior.

 

I find the request for a refund acceptable behavior. Certainly much more acceptable than trolling, which folks do on a constant basis in and out of the game.

 

I would rather see a game and forum full of folks asking for things all day, then see one more "QQ moar", "L2P", "if you don't like it, quit" type of response.

[tdmaha]

Fair enough, and of course I am stretching it a bit.

 

I suppose my point would be that what one considers bad behavior another may consider acceptable behavior.

 

I find the request for a refund acceptable behavior. Certainly much more acceptable than trolling, which folks do on a constant basis in and out of the game.

 

I would rather see a game and forum full of folks asking for things all day, then see one more "QQ moar", "L2P", "if you don't like it, quit" type of response.

 

So you only consider those who call out the complainers "trolling"? You don't consider those who QQ about the cost until it gets fixed, and then QQ because they want a refund, and after that QQ about something else how is that not trolling?

The request for a refund is not acceptable behavior, the entitlement behavior is not acceptable in RL and should NOT be acceptable in a video game.

[mefit]

NO!

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[LordArtemis]

So you only consider those who call out the complainers "trolling"? You don't consider those who QQ about the cost until it gets fixed, and then QQ because they want a refund, and after that QQ about something else how is that not trolling?

 

I consider many things trolling Tdmaha. Using the term "QQ" would be one of those things, clearly. Demonstrating a sense of entitlement would not.

 

The request for a refund is not acceptable behavior, the entitlement behavior is not acceptable in RL and should NOT be acceptable in a video game.

 

Who defines what is acceptable?

 

I think that ls likely Bioware. They have not listed a rule that I have seen that has indicated that demonstrating entitlement is against the rules...but they have listed trolling as a violation.

 

Some folks feel they are entitled to certain things, and though certainly one can deride them for doing so if they wish, they should be able to do so and remain within the forum rules.

 

I do not find it an unreasonable request. I do, however find it unreasonable if they DEMAND it or indicate they intend to quit the game over it. That is going too far IMO.

 

...as is insulting those that find the free training acceptable. Some folks do not care if the offer recompense, and that is not a reason to insult them.

[tdmaha]

I consider many things trolling Tdmaha. Using the term "QQ" would be one of those things, clearly. Demonstrating a sense of entitlement would not.

 

 

 

Who defines what is acceptable?

 

I think that ls likely Bioware. They have not listed a rule that I have seen that has indicated that demonstrating entitlement is against the rules...but they have listed trolling as a violation.

 

Some folks feel they are entitled to certain things, and though certainly one can deride them for doing so if they wish, they should be able to do so and remain within the forum rules.

 

I do not find it an unreasonable request. I do, however find it unreasonable if they DEMAND it or indicate they intend to quit the game over it. That is going too far IMO.

 

...as is insulting those that find the free training acceptable. Some folks do not care if the offer recompense, and that is not a reason to insult them.

 

You and your words...can't use "cry" "QQ" "whine" any word that shows up as **** (I used * and didn't spell out a word) any others im missing.

 

And someone can tell those who feel entitled that they are wrong..nothing in the forum rules that you love to bring up says otherwise...