The coalition base on Yavin needs to be neutral territory.

[Andryah]

Just because it's unsportsmanlike does mean it isn't PvP.

 

At Normandy, weren't the Germans spawn camping the allied troops?

 

Yeah, I can't take complaints about "unfairness" in MMO PvP seriously. In warfare.. you want every opportunity and advantage you can carve out to your advantage. And since PvP is an MMO mimmick of warfare.... I don't buy into the "sportsmanship" demands.

 

I've been ganked in PvP many times over the years by clever (and unclever) play that put me at a disadvantage. I picked myself up from the dirt nap, shook off the dirt and moved forward.

 

It's not like there is perma-death or corpse looting here. And if you are getting camped... you call friends/guildies to come out and help the enemy atone for their sins. .

Edited December 12, 2014 by Andryah

[LordArtemis]

I agree on most points but on semantics I do disagree.

 

when u use terms like "wrong" or "dishonourable" you're injecting a certain moral subjectivity that makes me uneasy.

 

when I play bf4 I don't feel bad shooting a bad player. when I play madden I don't feel bad scoring a TD on a bad player. and when I play swtor on a PvP server, I don't feel bad about killing players. its an objective of the game. I can't feel wrong about completing any activity in video game. in short, if you feel that its wrong, then that's your subjective opinion. to be objective, if it were wrong according to the designers of the game, it would be prevented. (which I suspect this will be)

 

if an mmo player is flagged for PvP, then my assumption is that they genuinely want to PvP. I can't be held accountable to what they may think about the manner that which I engage them because that's not my problem. my suggestion would be to not play there. I totally understand the appeal of pve servers.

 

I can call fights "unfair" or "unbalanced" or "uneven" but not wrong.

 

and if u want me to admit something I can admit the following:

- I attack people I choose; whatever level, engaged or not

- I regularly attack groups of 2-4 in hopes of getting a kill or two...and sometimes all 4

-if a player gets upset in a /say after I kill them, I find it humorous that a video game (built for pleasure) would cause anger and likely repeat killing them until I get bored

-I hope that any action I take provokes a competitive response. ie if I kill u in a group, I hope u make one too. if I kill u while loading, I hope u attack me during dailies

 

Fair enough on the uneasiness. I understand that it may be difficult for modern PVP players to grasp that they are doing things that may be considered dishonorable sometimes and be ok with that.

 

But IMO they should recognize that and be OK with it. It is called advantage seeking, and it is normal behavior, honorable or not. Seeking justification for bad behavior in PVP is a relatively modern phenomena. In the old days, you did bad things and owned up to it, called it all part of PVP.

 

People would judge, sure, but that is what happens. War is not fair. War is brutal and unfair.

 

By the same token, it is understandable when a game company removes an unfair element because it does not meet their vision of what they feel PVP should be.

 

Perhaps some seek absolution because it bothers them they may be engaging in dishonorable behavior and they do not wish to be judged. Others may actually know it to be true and try to whitewash it to manipulate the masses into keeping the advantage in place.

 

The point is, it is wrong, and so what if it is wrong. That is PVP. It is NOT against the rules...until it is.

 

Then it is removed from the game.

 

One can certainly argue this is bad for the game and it turns off PVP players. Sure, that is a valid complaint. I say ok, if Bioware feels that way they can change it.

 

It is just my view, which means nothing at the end of the day of course.

 

The question here was whether or not this behavior was consistent with Bioware's view on what they considered acceptable for PVP. Obviously it was not, and will be fixed. Sometimes I may even agree they should, even if I find it fun....like in this case.

 

Until then, gank away.

Edited December 12, 2014 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

Yeah, I can't take complaints about "unfairness" in MMO PvP seriously. In warfare.. you want every opportunity and advantage you can carve out to your advantage. And since PvP is an MMO mimmick of warfare.... I don't buy into the "sportsmanship" demands.

 

I've been ganked in PvP many times over the years by clever (and unclever) play that put me at a disadvantage. I picked myself up from the dirt nap, shook off the dirt and moved forward.

 

It's not like there is perma-death or corpse looting here. And if you are getting camped... you call friends/guildies to come out and help the enemy atone for their sins. .

 

This is exactly the attitude that is the right one to have in PVP. A demonstration that this person understands the true nature of PVP.

 

On PVP servers, anything goes that is not against the rules. That is how it works. If Bioware does not agree it will change, otherwise it is best for folks to suck it up and drive on.

[Sathid]

This is exactly the attitude that is the right one to have in PVP. A demonstration that this person understands the true nature of PVP.

 

On PVP servers, anything goes that is not against the rules. That is how it works. If Bioware does not agree it will change, otherwise it is best for folks to suck it up and drive on.

 

You miss the point,players CANNOT just move on in this situation,they are stuck there and the Imperials on the Bastion due to there is four to five to one Republic that doing one daily will take three times longer.

 

Imagine getting jumped as soon as you get to Yavin and then finally grabbing the quests,it could take 10 minutes to maybe twenty.

 

Ok now you are out there you check the map you start enjoying the scenery and start doing these quest to head towards the main quest line,oh no there is a group of two sorcs with their comps,you die,they kill you maybe two more times and then move on.

 

You dust yourself off and rebuff you get a few more of those nodes or whatever,and whoops there is red again this time a Jugg and his buddy facecruncher the Merc and they kill you and laugh,.

 

You dust of yourself again and travel maybe twenty meters and then you hear the blade sounds as a operative starts cutting you up with his Sin buddy,they laugh,"ha ha scrub!"

 

 

you res again,by this time an hour has passed and you are done with one daily and half way through the third and you see red players all over after the tunnel,where if you try to do any key quest related thing you are jumped.

 

Then you stare at the keyboard and just say "Well that is it for me" and log off.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Sathid

[LordArtemis]

You miss the point,players CANNOT just move on in this situation,they are stuck there and the Imperials on the Bastion due to there is four to five to one Republic that doing one daily will take three times longer.

 

Imagine getting jumped as soon as you get to Yavin and then finally grabbing the quests,it could take 10 minutes to maybe twenty.

 

Ok now you are out there you check the map you start enjoying the scenery and start doing these quest to head towards the main quest line,oh no there is a group of two sorcs with their comps,you die,they kill you maybe two more times and then move on.

 

You dust yourself off and rebuff you get a few more of those nodes or whatever,and whoops there is red again this time a Jugg and his buddy facecruncher the Merc and they kill you and laugh,.

 

You dust of yourself again and travel maybe twenty meters and then you hear the blade sounds as a operative starts cutting you up with his Sin buddy,they laugh,"ha ha scrub!"

 

 

you res again,by this time an hour has passed and you are done with one daily and half way through the third and you see red players all over after the tunnel,where if you try to do any key quest related thing you are jumped.

 

Then you stare at the keyboard and just say "Well that is it for me" and log off.

 

I get the point. I did not stand against the proposed change, in fact I though it would be a good idea for them to change it since it likely did not match what Bioware intended with PVP.

 

My only point in this respect is trying to change the behavior of folks that take advantage of these sorts of things is a fools errand. It is part of PVP. It will ALWAYS be part of PVP. My other point is that PVP players should own up to the realities of this behavior.

Edited December 12, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Sathid]

Yeah, I can't take complaints about "unfairness" in MMO PvP seriously. In warfare.. you want every opportunity and advantage you can carve out to your advantage. And since PvP is an MMO mimmick of warfare.... I don't buy into the "sportsmanship" demands.

 

I've been ganked in PvP many times over the years by clever (and unclever) play that put me at a disadvantage. I picked myself up from the dirt nap, shook off the dirt and moved forward.

 

It's not like there is perma-death or corpse looting here. And if you are getting camped... you call friends/guildies to come out and help the enemy atone for their sins. .

 

Your post is a joke,do you play on a PvP server? oh call your buddies huh,yah hey guildies drop everything to come help me as i am getting slaugthered by these Imperials ,oh never mind that as soon as they come there will be twice as many Imperials around and we will spend 30 minutes to an hour just fighting the never ending line of imperials that pass by that want to get into the blood letting.

[Sathid]

I get the point. I did not stand against the proposed change, in fact I though it would be a good idea for them to change it since it likely did not match what Bioware intended with PVP.

 

My only point in this respect is trying to change the behavior of folks that take advantage of these sorts of things is a fools errand. It is part of PVP. It will ALWAYS be part of PVP. My other point is that PVP players should own up to the realities of this behavior.

 

They will not,the Imperial player base has more players thus more immature players that is statistics,the law of average if you will.

[Sathid]

Personally i wish i never rolled onto the Bastion,i wish i could move to a PVE server,when they gave Imperials more than Hutball to play against each other i saw the writing on the wall,i have tried to have faith that the Imperial base would wise up,i know of maybe two dozen Pvpers that are Republic main like myself that have left this server over the last year,i intend to too,but i will not fork out the money for it,i hope they give us another server transfer because i am done playing with the Imperials on the Bastion and the premades to the utter lack of any type of understanding in any form by these miscreants.

 

I may even unsub who knows,i just do not see the fun in it anymore getting jumped as often as i do by groups daily,i will not even begin with the Rhakghoul event thing,i have to get on my Imp to do that stuff for the most part.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Sathid

[Khevar]

hey guildies drop everything to come help me as i am getting slaugthered by these Imperials ,oh never mind that as soon as they come there will be twice as many Imperials around and we will spend 30 minutes to an hour just fighting the never ending line of imperials that pass by that want to get into the blood letting.

Call me crazy, but that sounds like (wait for it) open world PvP

 

If you're on a PvP server, isn't that kind of the point?

 

If you're on a PvE server, you only have to join if you chose.

 

I play on Begeren Colony (RP-PvE) and something just like that happened on Ilum back around the 1.2 days. A couple of Operatives had stealth infiltrated the Republic Base and were mezzing NPCs and generally trying to be a nuisance.

 

So some of the pubs flagged themselves and started a fight. They called in reinforcements. We called in reinforcements. A grand melee began. Quite a few people didn't want to participate, so they want along their merry way. But a whole bunch of us, bored with repeating the same dailies over and over again, felt like it was a big change of pace.

 

It went on for about an hour, until the dust settled. It was actually pretty fun.

 

And since your general tone in this thread is "epic outrage", let me say again, just to be perfectly clear: The only people that participated were those that wanted to by flagging themselves for PvP.

[Sathid]

Call me crazy, but that sounds like (wait for it) open world PvP

 

If you're on a PvP server, isn't that kind of the point?

 

If you're on a PvE server, you only have to join if you chose.

 

I play on Begeren Colony (RP-PvE) and something just like that happened on Ilum back around the 1.2 days. A couple of Operatives had stealth infiltrated the Republic Base and were mezzing NPCs and generally trying to be a nuisance.

 

So some of the pubs flagged themselves and started a fight. They called in reinforcements. We called in reinforcements. A grand melee began. Quite a few people didn't want to participate, so they want along their merry way. But a whole bunch of us, bored with repeating the same dailies over and over again, felt like it was a big change of pace.

 

It went on for about an hour, until the dust settled. It was actually pretty fun.

 

And since your general tone in this thread is "epic outrage", let me say again, just to be perfectly clear: The only people that participated were those that wanted to by flagging themselves for PvP.

 

 

I was at Ilum when that happened,i was on Ajunta Pall,YOu are not telling me anything new,NOTHING my main is a scoundrel i have had over 100 Valor for a longtime i have Pvped almost daily for years,my concern and my outrage is for my guardian etc brothers that cannot stealth and just logged out due to the amount of Imperials,we all want OWPVP ,but getting jumped by Imperials in groups every ten minutes sometimes is NOT OWPVP,you may think it is,but it is sometimes impossible to do some things,,What you think i am just raging here for the fun of it? that i have not experienced this for now two years or more? i do not mind being the under dog,but i and many others do mind being slaugthered with no way to fight back.

[Khevar]

I was at Ilum when that happened,i was on Ajunta Pall,YOu are not telling me anything new,NOTHING my main is a scoundrel i have had over 100 Valor for a longtime i have Pvped almost daily for years,my concern and my outrage is for my guardian etc brothers that cannot stealth and just logged out due to the amount of Imperials,we all want OWPVP ,but getting jumped by Imperials in groups every ten minutes sometimes is NOT OWPVP,you may think it is,but it is sometimes impossible to do some things,,What you think i am just raging here for the fun of it? that i have not experienced this for now two years or more? i do not mind being the under dog,but i and many others do mind being slaugthered with no way to fight back.

I've never played on AP. Is there a heavy imbalance between pub and imp players?

 

If so, what exactly are you hoping to change that would fix that problem?

[Sathid]

I've never played on AP. Is there a heavy imbalance between pub and imp players?

 

If so, what exactly are you hoping to change that would fix that problem?

 

AP is gone it was the the RP-PVP server,we were given a choice Jung Ma or Bastion my friends who all have unsubbed aside from one all decided to go to the Bastion,in the beginning it was not too bad,but now,it's bad and getting worse.

 

There is nothing right now that will change it,it takes twice as long to get Pvp gear as a Republic due to the amount of premades by the Imperials,and it takes twice as long sometimes to do dailies,there is no hope,the Imperials can just have the server and they can all just stare at each other and play against each other in WZ's for all i care,they killed it.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Sathid

[Lotharofxev]

Here's (one reason) why they may be reticent to establish "neutral" territory (even though it totally fits with the "story line", but let's go down that road): Once they establish a precedent for "neutral" territory, even with the best of intentions, they have opened the proverbial Pandora's box for future complaints about the same issue in different locations.

[agamemnon-]

Here's (one reason) why they may be reticent to establish "neutral" territory (even though it totally fits with the "story line", but let's go down that road): Once they establish a precedent for "neutral" territory, even with the best of intentions, they have opened the proverbial Pandora's box for future complaints about the same issue in different locations.

 

I see no issue with neutral locations in the future. This is a none issue.

[Lotharofxev]

I see no issue with neutral locations in the future

.

 

As in no issue with them creating more, or no issue with the non-creation of one now?

 

This is a none (sic) issue.

 

See my question above.

[TUXs]

At Normandy, weren't the Germans spawn camping the allied troops?

Seriously? WWII was a real WAR...this is a freaking video game. Those troops didn't respawn, they DIED! Those soldiers were fighting for their lives, we're playing a freaking GAME. To equate this game to "real war", in any aspect, is absolutely absurd.

Here's (one reason) why they may be reticent to establish "neutral" territory (even though it totally fits with the "story line", but let's go down that road): Once they establish a precedent for "neutral" territory, even with the best of intentions, they have opened the proverbial Pandora's box for future complaints about the same issue in different locations.

EVERY PLANET has a safe zone that players load into, despite server type - Yavin was the ONLY exception to that rule. The "Pandora's box" was leaving Yavin as it was...thankfully, they aren't planning to.

 

Even PvP servers have rules that promote a healthy game (despite what some of you seem to think). Yavin didn't fit what Bioware has done for 3+ years.

[Pagy]

ROFL I play on PvP server and PvP is why I play MMO. Spawn camping isn't PvP.

its players killing players, right?

 

judging by all your posts you really hate pvp, which is sad because you claim to be on a pvp server.

no im on a pvp server because i love pvp, i have no problems with the rule set

 

spawn ganking and griefing are against bio wares own rule sets up till this zone, it was fixed on illum and it will be fixed here.

 

make sure to get all your amazing load farming in before tuesday for max e-peen

you keep using words like "ganking" and "griefing" when neither are even possible on pvp servers. it's all pvp. its all consensual player versus player combat. trying to call certain interactions "bad" or worse than others is just silly. you chose to be flagged when you chose the server. that should be the end of it.

[TUXs]

its players killing players, right?

 

judging by all your posts you really hate pvp, which is sad because you claim to be on a pvp server.you keep using words like "ganking" and "griefing" when neither are even possible on pvp servers. it's all pvp. its all consensual player versus player combat. trying to call certain interactions "bad" or worse than others is just silly. you chose to be flagged when you chose the server. that should be the end of it.

Calling it bad is not silly. It's bad design. That's why games typically don't do stupid **** like this. It's bad for business and it's bad for player retention. PvP servers are not "anything goes"...there are rules. Don't like those rules? Go play something else.

[Pagy]

Your post is a joke,do you play on a PvP server? oh call your buddies huh,yah hey guildies drop everything to come help me as i am getting slaugthered by these Imperials ,oh never mind that as soon as they come there will be twice as many Imperials around and we will spend 30 minutes to an hour just fighting the never ending line of imperials that pass by that want to get into the blood letting.

sounds like you and your guildies joined the incorrect server type. you'd all be more happy i think on a pve server.

 

people that belong on a pvp server would jump at the opportunity to zone in and fight in such a larger battle.

 

and assuming just because imps have more people crafting and trolling in fleet that they too will drop everything and fight on yavin because the numbers are even well, again, that is why you fail.

Personally i wish i never rolled onto the Bastion,i wish i could move to a PVE server,when they gave Imperials more than Hutball to play against each other i saw the writing on the wall,i have tried to have faith that the Imperial base would wise up,i know of maybe two dozen Pvpers that are Republic main like myself that have left this server over the last year,i intend to too,but i will not fork out the money for it,i hope they give us another server transfer because i am done playing with the Imperials on the Bastion and the premades to the utter lack of any type of understanding in any form by these miscreants.

 

I may even unsub who knows,i just do not see the fun in it anymore getting jumped as often as i do by groups daily,i will not even begin with the Rhakghoul event thing,i have to get on my Imp to do that stuff for the most part.

im not sure i see the sense in forking out money for a sub but then being miserable instead of using money to put yourself into a better situation.

 

i hope you complete that transfer and you keep playing.

[leihn]

This is still going on?

[TUXs]

sounds like you and your guildies joined the incorrect server type. you'd all be more happy i think on a pve server.

 

im not sure i see the sense in forking out money for a sub but then being miserable instead of using money to put yourself into a better situation.

 

O M G lol...thank you so much for proving my point so freaking well!!! I love the irony of your post...you'd rather have more and more players transfer off the PvP servers, until just the people griefing own the server...then you would complain that there's nobody playing and that Bioware failed and you'd quit lol. I've seen it a thousand times over the years from people who don't think things through. Well done Pagy...thank you for such an amazing demonstration of who Bioware needs to ignore lol.

[Khevar]

Seriously? WWII was a real WAR...this is a freaking video game.

I wish you had instead quoted the second half of my post, which related PvP to a sport.

 

Why didn't you?

[Warrgames]

its players killing players, right?

 

judging by all your posts you really hate pvp, which is sad because you claim to be on a pvp server.you keep using words like "ganking" and "griefing" when neither are even possible on pvp servers. it's all pvp. its all consensual player versus player combat. trying to call certain interactions "bad" or worse than others is just silly. you chose to be flagged when you chose the server. that should be the end of it.

 

It is not player versus player when a player has no control of there character. Player versus player is when you are facing off against another player. What you are doing is attacking someone that isn't playing. Why because you can't hack fighting a player that is in control of their character or you get off on griefing someone else. These types of acts is why OWPvP is dead in MMO, fail players that get off on causing other players grief. Just like everyone else I pay to play a GAME and have FUN. Getting spawn camped where I have no control over my character isn't fun. These type of acts is why every MMO has a system in place to prevent this. A medcenter/graveyard away from where you died or the walk shame in ghost form to prevent this type of childish behavior.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Warrgames

[TUXs]

I wish you had instead quoted the second half of my post, which related PvP to a sport.

 

Why didn't you?

Even in sports there are rules. The Packers don't land in Buffalo today and get scored on while they're on the plane still. Sports have extremely heavy rules to keep things fair and fun for everyone. PvP needs rules to be enjoyable.

[Pagy]

Calling it bad is not silly. It's bad design. That's why games typically don't do stupid **** like this. It's bad for business and it's bad for player retention. PvP servers are not "anything goes"...there are rules. Don't like those rules? Go play something else.

i'm not sure why i took you off ignore but you'll be disappearing again.

 

funny that you suggest people "go play something" else if they dont like the rules...well currently there are no rules on yavin. strange that you only want people to "go do something else" when the rules are something you agree with and when you dont. /wave