The Damage of Malgus' Coup

[Slowpokeking]

Since it was a thread about Lana Beniko, I don't think it's wise to continue to derail the thread.

 

I like Malgus and agree with some of his ideas, however, his coup is a bad idea, not only caused a lot of meaningless death, but also

 

Even before Malgus' coup, the Empire was not winning, sure, a lot of power struggle and the defeat of the Emperor caused problem.

 

But this does not prove Malgus did nothing wrong. His coup is another Sith Infighting among the Empire.

 

He chose a wrong time to make this wrong action, which gave the pubs chance to strike.

 

From the official Encyclopedia

 

Although some among the Empire's elite sympathize with Malgus' vision, the timing of his coup comes at a dangerous moment when the divided Imperial military is severely vulnerable to Republic attack.

 

In the story of Makeb, Darth Marr's lines also confirmed it.

 

Our victories were glorius, but infighting among the Sith has taken its toll.

 

Darth Malgus sought to usurp the Emperor, caused division when unity was required. The Republic sees an opportunity to strike.

 

Obviously Malgus' coup was part of the "infighting" he was pointing at.

 

From the official Encyclopedia again. Actually, this, solely, could tell the case.

 

The Sith Empire reels from its near destruction at the hands of Malgus the Betrayer, the once revered Imperial War Hero.

 

Even in Makeb storyline, Darth Marr also confirmed that the defeat might occur within the year. Their last and only chance was the isotope 5 on Makeb. They couldn't make a full invasion on Makeb because the force were crumbling. These are all enough to prove how bad the situation was. I don't understand why some people are saying that Malgus caused little damage and blame everything to the Dark Council/Emperor.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Slowpokeking

[LtBombshell]

I dunno. Having played through all the stories, I almost sympathize with Malgus. The Empire has been ridden with infighting and an ineffective council. The Human/Sith pure-blood high culture has been limiting the amount of potential recruits, and knowing the Emperor

is dead (JK class story)

or from Malgus' point of view, practically non-existent, it makes sense for him to declare himself Emperor.

 

As stated previously, he hasn't heard from the Emperor in decades, the Dark Council is

wrought by infighting (SW and SI storylines) and thus rendered ineffective.

Not to mention

Imperial Intelligence has been dissolved,

and the fact that Malgus has lots of influence in the Empire, I would almost rather join him than fight against him (as an Imp, of course).

[Slowpokeking]

I dunno. Having played through all the stories, I almost sympathize with Malgus. The Empire has been ridden with infighting and an ineffective council. The Human/Sith pure-blood high culture has been limiting the amount of potential recruits, and knowing the Emperor

is dead (JK class story)

or from Malgus' point of view, practically non-existent, it makes sense for him to declare himself Emperor.

 

As stated previously, he hasn't heard from the Emperor in decades, the Dark Council is

wrought by infighting (SW and SI storylines) and thus rendered ineffective.

Not to mention

Imperial Intelligence has been dissolved,

and the fact that Malgus has lots of influence in the Empire, I would almost rather join him than fight against him (as an Imp, of course).

 

Sure these were the problem of the Empire, I agree with Malgus' points, but an open coup is not the best, probably the worst way to solve it.

 

Other than the stuff I mentioned in the OP, a war hero turned against them would deeply affect the morale of the Empire and shake people's belief.

[PLynkes]

It was a tragic waste (both in-story and out of it). Marr seems to be building the very Empire that Malgus was striving for. More pragmatic, and not stupidly chaotic evil just for the sake of it. If he hadn't had his dumb rebellion he might have lived to see it.

 

Malgus was a great character, I liked him much more than Marr. If only he had stuck around...

[Excise]

I would have loved an opportunity to join Malgus, but yes, all the infighting seems to be a major cause for the Imps being back on their heels during the war. Numerous characters cite this.

[Slowpokeking]

It was a tragic waste (both in-story and out of it). Marr seems to be building the very Empire that Malgus was striving for. More pragmatic, and not stupidly chaotic evil just for the sake of it. If he hadn't had his dumb rebellion he might have lived to see it.

 

Malgus was a great character, I liked him much more than Marr. If only he had stuck around...

 

I think Marr is a better leader than Malgus, Malgus was a great general but he might not fit the leader role well.

[Silverspar]

Well, considering the Emperor

 

 

We know the Emperor is not dead. We've known that fact since the ending of Chapter 3 of the Sith Warrior class story, we were just biding his return.

 

 

However, as far as Darth Malgus, or Malgus the Betrayer is concerned, I do not think he is dead;

 

 

Since the canon ending is he gets thrown into a shaft in the throne room. Until it was nerfed it was that way even in story mode, and was changed thanks to a lot of whining and thus in Story Mode you only require reducing him to 0 hit points.

 

 

As far as the state of the Empire, before 2.0

 

 

Again, as pointed at by the Sith Warrior story line, Darth Baras is basically solely responsible for pretty much all the manipulations, betrayals and our losses in several key locations such as Corellia, and if I was following my friends story lines was also responsible for the dissolving of Imperial Intelligence, and the machinations of moving Darth Zash's apprentice into attacking Darth Thanaton.

 

 

Yes, Malgus coup was ill timed, all it boils down to. Otherwise I think if things had gone differently and he wasn't against Baras coup to control the Empire himself, Malgus might have swayed the Dark Council and Empire to his position. But, I do not believe Malgus is dead yet. We never saw his body and only assumed he died down that shaft, but as Lord Draagh proved;

 

 

Even if you throw him in a fire, his sorry arse can come back to haunt you later and try to seek revenge, and Malgus has survived much greater than the the likes of us in that Flashpoint.

 

 

Needless to say, I agree with Malgus viewpoint in a more unified Empire, and personally believe it would have succeeded if it wasn't hot on the heels or practically in the middle of other problems. Personally, I don't think Malgus story is done, and it would be an incredible waste of his character if it was.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Silverspar

[Slowpokeking]

Well, considering the Emperor

 

 

We know the Emperor is not dead. We've known that fact since the ending of Chapter 3 of the Sith Warrior class story, we were just biding his return.

 

 

However, as far as Darth Malgus, or Malgus the Betrayer is concerned, I do not think he is dead;

 

 

Since the canon ending is he gets thrown into a shaft in the throne room. Until it was nerfed it was that way even in story mode, and was changed thanks to a lot of whining and thus in Story Mode you only require reducing him to 0 hit points.

 

 

As far as the state of the Empire, before 2.0

 

 

Again, as pointed at by the Sith Warrior story line, Darth Baras is basically solely responsible for pretty much all the manipulations, betrayals and our losses in several key locations such as Corellia, and if I was following my friends story lines was also responsible for the dissolving of Imperial Intelligence, and the machinations of moving Darth Zash's apprentice into attacking Darth Thanaton.

 

 

Yes, Malgus coup was ill timed, all it boils down to. Otherwise I think if things had gone differently and he wasn't against Baras coup to control the Empire himself, Malgus might have swayed the Dark Council and Empire to his position. But, I do not believe Malgus is dead yet. We never saw his body and only assumed he died down that shaft, but as Lord Draagh proved;

 

 

Even if you throw him in a fire, his sorry arse can come back to haunt you later and try to seek revenge, and Malgus has survived much greater than the the likes of us in that Flashpoint.

 

 

Needless to say, I agree with Malgus viewpoint in a more unified Empire, and personally believe it would have succeeded if it wasn't hot on the heels or practically in the middle of other problems. Personally, I don't think Malgus story is done, and it would be an incredible waste of his character if it was.

 

I like the character and agree with his idea, but I just don't think that coup was right to do.

 

Sure, his return could be nice if it was handled well.

[Silverspar]

I like the character and agree with his idea, but I just don't think that coup was right to do.

 

Sure, his return could be nice if it was handled well.

 

His coup was right because the Empire's ideals are antiquated. How many Sith Lords or Imeprials do you run up against that the first thing that comes out of their mouth, if you aren't human/sith, is that they are surprised you are an alien, some of them even showing open disgust? I know quite a few. Hell, in the Empire now, when you do Makeb, you meet a cathar officer and he pretty much signifies that the views of the antiquated empire are shifting. I play a cathar juggernaut myself, and it's always amusing when someone tries to insult aliens, I usually force choke them immediately after.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Silverspar

[Slowpokeking]

His coup was right because the Empire's ideals are antiquated. How many Sith Lords or Imeprials do you run up against that the first thing that comes out of their mouth, if you aren't human/sith, is that they are surprised you are an alien, some of them even showing open disgust? I know quite a few. Hell, in the Empire now, when you do Makeb, you meet a cathar officer and he pretty much signifies that the views of the antiquated empire are shifting. I play a cathar juggernaut myself, and it's always amusing when someone tries to insult aliens, I usually force choke them immediately after.

 

It doesn't mean you should chose to make an open coup, if it wasn't for Darth Marr and a few wise Sith, they might dislike the aliens even more due to their coup. His coup almost brought the Empire into destruction.

[Silverspar]

It doesn't mean you should chose to make an open coup, if it wasn't for Darth Marr and a few wise Sith, they might dislike the aliens even more due to their coup. His coup almost brought the Empire into destruction.

 

Not really. His coup was just ill timed, which was practically at the same time/right on the heels of Darth Baras coup which caused way more damage.

 

 

In fact, Darth Marr pretty much makes it clear that when the Emperor makes his big return, he's pretty much going to do what Malgus was planning anyways.

 

Edited December 12, 2014 by Silverspar

[Slowpokeking]

Not really. His coup was just ill timed, which was practically at the same time/right on the heels of Darth Baras coup which caused way more damage.

 

 

In fact, Darth Marr pretty much makes it clear that when the Emperor makes his big return, he's pretty much going to do what Malgus was planning anyways.

 

The Sith Empire reels from its near destruction at the hands of Malgus the Betrayer, the once revered Imperial War Hero.

 

Here.

[Silverspar]

Here.

 

I hardly trust Wookiepedia or any pedia anymore, since I can look at several and the data is inaccurate at best, or horribly condensed at worst. There is more to the story than that. Again, Malgus ploy was ill timed, Malgus coup was hardly even that devastating since the fighting was constrained to Ilum and the station, with a few ships, meanwhile Baras cost the Empire several Dark Council members, entire battalions of troops and several ships in his coup.

[Slowpokeking]

I hardly trust Wookiepedia or any pedia anymore, since I can look at several and the data is inaccurate at best, or horribly condensed at worst. There is more to the story than that. Again, Malgus ploy was ill timed, Malgus coup was hardly even that devastating since the fighting was constrained to Ilum and the station, with a few ships, meanwhile Baras cost the Empire several Dark Council members, entire battalions of troops and several ships in his coup.

 

It's from the book.

 

Sure Baras was very very bad, I'm just saying it doesn't prove Malgus' coup(not his idea) right.

[Codedrago]

It was a tragic waste (both in-story and out of it). Marr seems to be building the very Empire that Malgus was striving for. More pragmatic, and not stupidly chaotic evil just for the sake of it. If he hadn't had his dumb rebellion he might have lived to see it.

 

Malgus was a great character, I liked him much more than Marr. If only he had stuck around...

 

I remember Darth Marr saying somewhere that it was because of Malgus's rebellion, that he is allowed to bulid.

Though I could be wrong.

[Allegos]

It's my assumption that the Emperor was using Revan's scheme at the Foundry as part of the Emperor's genocidal plan to ascend to godhood. Revan's droids were to be the Emperor's means of sacrificing Imperial lives, without Revan being aware of how he was being used. You can see more of Revan unwittingly playing into his emeny's hands on Yavin 4. I kind of like the fact that Revan's this clumsy fool whose messes we have to keep fixing; it makes him slightly less of a Mary Sue.

 

Anyways, whether Malgus was aware of the Emperor's end goal or not, Malgus had a hand in saving countless worlds when he sent the heroes of the Empire (funny how even evil has its heroes in this game) to stop Revan.

 

That buys Malgus a little forgiveness in my book. That, and his rejection of the Empire's racism toward nonhumans. Not a nice man, and clearly not unselfish either, but not as rotten to the core as many genre fiction villains.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Allegos

[Silverspar]

(funny how even evil has its heroes in this game)

 

A hero is not singularly good or evil, or related to a faction. I guarantee you, in every war you check out in history, both sides had heroes. Even the Axis powers had their heroes. It wasn't just the Allies pumping them out. Just like in the Star Wars universe, there will be heroes on both sides.

 

the definition of hero is basically a man or woman in the face of danger or adversity.

[DougTbx]

Malgus chose a bad time for his move, if he had waited and till support for the Emperor within the council to crumble first he would have been in the spot Marr is now.

[Silverspar]

Malgus chose a bad time for his move, if he had waited and till support for the Emperor within the council to crumble first he would have been in the spot Marr is now.

 

Basically, as I said. His coup was just ill timed, coming hot on the heels of Baras own coup.

[dcaleb]

Malgus chose a bad time for his move, if he had waited and till support for the Emperor within the council to crumble first he would have been in the spot Marr is now.

 

I doubt Malgus had the political savvy to end up being the defacto leader over Marr if he had bide his time a little longer.

Edited December 25, 2014 by dcaleb

[Silverspar]

I doubt Malgus had the political savvy to end up being the defacto leader over Marr if he had bide his time a little longer.

 

Never under estimate the power of a famous war hero, and Darth Malgus was quite famous. Doesn't take much to look through history to see that war heroes often get elected and placed in places of power after major wars. Compare this to Darth Marr, a relatively faceless (and yes, he is faceless even if he is cool as hell) person that only the upper echelon even talk to, while Malgus has actually communicated with underlings and subordinates. Malgus has always made his feelings clear that rejecting other races and not being united leads to ruin.

 

In the end, if there was an election, even though I like Marr, Malgus would have most likely won that by a land slide. The people of the Empire know who Malgus is, know he is a highly decorated war hero, and has earned his title as Darth. Not to mention, it's foolish to sit there and say that Malgus would have no political savvy. he was able to convince quite a number of people to join him as him as Emperor, so I think his political power is quite stronger than people give him credit for.

[DougTbx]

Considering he was able to amass enough support within the Empire to not only steal the production facilities from the Foundry but move them to the Emperor's space station that he also took over I'd have to say Malgus was a more then adequate political operator. If the DC had known at the time that the Emperor had been planing on sacrificing them along with the rest of the Galaxy for his own ascension they'd have gladly thrown in with Malgus. Edited December 25, 2014 by DougTbx

[DogeDandolo]

Malgus' coup always seemed strangely-timed to me. Considering all the changes in the Dark Council's makeup at the end of our class stories, it would seem more reasonable to a) wait and see and b) forge alliances with Sith leaders ideologically close to Malgus. That would include Darth Marr (clearly a pragmatist), possibly Darth Ravage (he doesn't seem all that hostile to Malgus' ideas on Ilum) and arguably most variations of Darth Imperius / Nox (keeping aside the fact that they might be an alien, and that Imperius at least is unlikely to be speciesist, their very background seems to make them rather predisposed towards a reformist policy -- though the same might have been said about Thanaton). An alliance of Malgus and Marr alone, possibly with other Dark Councillors supporting them, would have had little trouble imposing Malgus' policies on the Empire without risking civil war.

 

Insofar, I'd blame the coup on Malgus' pride and his lack of political savvy.

[Silverspar]

Insofar, I'd blame the coup on Malgus' pride and his lack of political savvy.

 

I blame the coup on the crap *** writing to be honest. Everything seemingly was set up in the vanilla game as if TOR wasn't going to succeed so went out of their way to have the Empire decimated and crippled by games end, story wise at least, and only leaving enough of a carrot for expansions if the game actually went anywhere. To be blunt, the entire Empire was written into a corner and getting them out of it is looking to be a feat that won't be resolved for some time to come.

 

Malgus should have never fallen and even if he returns he will probably be returned as some revenge happy mongrel that goes "Rawr, Smash!" more than the savvy warrior with bigger dreams for the Empire. I know I am not the only one that would have preferred to join Malgus coup.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Silverspar

[Darkelefantos]

Never under estimate the power of a famous war hero, and Darth Malgus was quite famous. Doesn't take much to look through history to see that war heroes often get elected and placed in places of power after major wars. Compare this to Darth Marr, a relatively faceless (and yes, he is faceless even if he is cool as hell) person that only the upper echelon even talk to, while Malgus has actually communicated with underlings and subordinates. Malgus has always made his feelings clear that rejecting other races and not being united leads to ruin.

Marr is also a decorated war hero who saved the Empire several battles during the Great War.