Vanguard Plasmatech vs Tactics 3.0

[TKruschke]

So, I have played my vanguard for quite a while now and I cannot decide whether I want to go tactics or plasmatech in 3.0. I played old tactics and I have tried new tactics and plasmatech but I really cant tell which one I like better. I was wondering if anyone has any opinions on these specs.

Thanks

[Zoom_VI]

PvE or PvP?

[teclado]

I've tried out both in PVP. Tactics has better burst, although plasmatech can be really fun - putting a 30 second DoT (plasmatize) on stealthers is quite satisfying, and you do feel like quite the pyromaniac. Plasmatech doesn't have terrible burst, it's just not as good as Tactics.

 

I'm probably going to end up playing Tactics most of the time, but I think I'll probably go plasmatech every now and then for some variety.

[TKruschke]

PvE or PvP?

 

I play more PvP than PvE but I do some PvE now and then

[Zoom_VI]

I play more PvP than PvE but I do some PvE now and then

 

Tactics for PvP, PvE goes by boss fight.

 

tactics has the burst and decent survivability. Plasmatech is suffering from the fact that it's cleave damage was gutted with Pulse cannon doing less damage at 60 than it did at 55 in 2.x, not to mention its extremely squishy and the primary defensive talent (adrenaline fueled) is broken right now and doesn't work.

[VoidBird]

i'm very familiar with all the vg playstyles so its not a question of rotation or anything. i'm primarily pvp, so i cant speak on pve. But from what ive seen, plasmatech is a severely nerfed version of old tactics and hits like a wet noodle.. By far, tactics discipline does better damage all around, better dps, better ttk, higher placement on the charts every time... I really hope they fix plasmatech caus i prefer that playstyle better, until then plasmatech is a waste of time, stick with tactics Edited December 8, 2014 by VoidBird

[Morath]

I find myself the odd one here. I always played tactics in the past due to the play style and mobility. So naturally I stayed with tactics. PVP was a nightmare trying to get a pulse cannon to go off. So I gave tactics 3.0 a try and figured it had to be more survivable and bursty than plasma.

 

Oddly tactics should be more survivable but it doesn't seem so to me. Plasmatech seems to be. Only thing I can think of is 15% reduction on dots or stuff like taking less damage on stun is not working in tactics. I get melted fast in tactics.. just not as fast on plasmatech.

 

I have had at least 4 1v1s in warzones and seem to wear down the PTs I have encounterd I'm not that great a pvp player and my gear is not that great. I don't tunnel dps so depending on how long the game I do about 500 to 800k with plasma on the longer games these are pugs.

 

So not sure what I'm gonna pvp with but gonna keep trying them out. The dots add up fast and incendiary round at 30m plus the mobility and the energy regeneration is very good. Maybe tactics is better with better gear.

[Derzelaz]

Simplest answer: Tactics plays (almost) exactly as the old Assault Specialist, and Plasmatech plays (almost) exactly as the old Tactics. There are differences from the old versions, but pretty much, they switched the names of Tactics and Plasmatech (Assault Specialist).

[mastervalkar]

Simplest answer: Tactics plays (almost) exactly as the old Assault Specialist, and Plasmatech plays (almost) exactly as the old Tactics. There are differences from the old versions, but pretty much, they switched the names of Tactics and Plasmatech (Assault Specialist).

 

The best way to describe the 3.0 changes.

 

Here my take:

Tactics/Advanced Prototype: Old Assault Specialist/Pyrotech w/o burns, but with added burst, defenses, and even higher mobility.

Plamatech/Pyrotech: Old Tactics/Advanced Prototype with added burns, more elemental damage, and a jumping burn.

Edited December 9, 2014 by mastervalkar

[TKruschke]

So I guess ill use tactics since everyone has been saying that, I have field respect so when plasmatech gets fixed (hopefully on Tuesday) I will give it a whirl. Thanks everyone!

[Rang-o]

What rotation do you recommend for tactics? PVP single target?

[Rang-o]

Also how do you load shoulder cannon?

[Natharon]

You load it by pulling it onto your toolbar, binding it, hitting it and depending on spec wait some time, hit the same button to fire it.

[TKruschke]

You load it by pulling it onto your toolbar, binding it, hitting it and depending on spec wait some time, hit the same button to fire it.

 

If you're tactics at lvl 56 or above, you automatically get 3 stacks of missiles but you still have to wait for the other 4 missiles.

 

Plasmatech just get the 4 missiles if I am correct.

[TKruschke]

What rotation do you recommend for tactics? PVP single target?

 

http://dulfy.net/2014/12/07/swtor-3-0-vanguard-tactics-and-plasmatech-dps-guide-by-kwerty/ (pictures)

 

or more specifically,

 

The Rotation is a priority system of all your different abilities. While I can’t give you the complete rotation (its over 300 ability activations long!), I can give you an opener and a priority list after that opener to work with.

 

Another thing to note is this changes if you move from single target to AoE, and the AoE rotation is under the normal one.

 

So, without further ado:

 

Single Target

 

OPENER

 

Preload Shoulder Cannon, Energy Lodes

 

AP -> Gut -> [Adrenal, Battle Focus, Start Shoulder Cannon Spam] HiB -> SS –> TS -> CB -> HiB -> TS –> HiB -> Priority List

 

The priority list consists of 4 GCD Blocks, with choices made in each block depending on what cooldowns are available, and how much energy you have left, as well as if you have energy cooldowns available.

 

Reserve Powercell should be used on every 4th Cell Burst, while Recharge Cells should be used at 30 energy. Try to time your energy so you have about 60 energy when the free Cell Burst is used.

 

The 4 GCD Block consists of the following:

 

Filler 1 -> Filler 2 -> Proc Filler -> Filler 3

 

Due to how the opener was organized, stockstrike will only fall into Filler 1 and the Proc Filler, while Assault Plastique will only ever fall into Filler 2 or Filler 3.

 

Filler 1 Priority List:

•Gut (Bleed fell off)

•Stockstrike

•4-Stack Energy Lodes Cell Burst

•High Impact Bolt

•Full Auto (Next cooldown must be free from Assault Plastique, Energy > 84 or regen cooldown available)

•Hammer Shots (Energy < 75)

•Tactical Surge

 

Filler 2 Priority List:

•Assault Plastique

•4-Stack Energy Lodes Cell Burst

•High Impact Bolt

•Hammer Shots (Energy < 65)

•Tactical Surge

 

Proc Filler Priority List:

•Stockstrike

•Tactical Surge

 

Filler 3 Priority List:

•Assault Plastique

•4-Stack Energy Lodes Cell Burst

•High Impact Bolt

 

For those who are more visually inclined, heres a picture of said priority list per GCD:

[Rang-o]

Thank you for all the info. Much apreciated.

[HaoZhao]

I find that Plasmatech is the worst of the two for PVP, simply because Plasma requires you to stop to use pulse cannon. When you stop kiting, all of those really bad melee players get to do damage to you. A big part of succeeding as a VG in PVP is non-stop kiting. You minimize the damage you take by avoiding it altogether from really bad marauders and operatives who don't know how to react to being slowed. When you stop to do a channel of pulse cannon, that's when those bad players will start a ravage. Shield specialist gets away with this because it's a tanking spec and it's designed to be able to take a punch. Tactics and Plasmatech both have glass jaws and leaving yourself open to focus fire, unopposed, is not a viable option. You have to always be moving. VGs are about mobility. Plasmatech is especially vulnerable to Advanced Prototype/Tactics which can just use HO to dance around your pulse cannon altogether and make quick work of you.

[Zunayson]

I find that Plasmatech is the worst of the two for PVP, simply because Plasma requires you to stop to use pulse cannon. When you stop kiting, all of those really bad melee players get to do damage to you. A big part of succeeding as a VG in PVP is non-stop kiting. You minimize the damage you take by avoiding it altogether from really bad marauders and operatives who don't know how to react to being slowed. When you stop to do a channel of pulse cannon, that's when those bad players will start a ravage. Shield specialist gets away with this because it's a tanking spec and it's designed to be able to take a punch. Tactics and Plasmatech both have glass jaws and leaving yourself open to focus fire, unopposed, is not a viable option. You have to always be moving. VGs are about mobility. Plasmatech is especially vulnerable to Advanced Prototype/Tactics which can just use HO to dance around your pulse cannon altogether and make quick work of you.

 

One of the two dps specs has to be better for pvp. The channel isn't even the issue. If the channel hurt as much as a ravage did, then it'd be worth it.

[LanceCorporalDan]

One of the two dps specs has to be better for pvp. The channel isn't even the issue. If the channel hurt as much as a ravage did, then it'd be worth it.

 

Yes, this is true sadly. But the issue with that is that ravage is single target while pulse cannon is AoE. As Crinn said, the cleave damage has been reduced significantly, brining the most damaging ability down a good peg. For this reason I'll likely play tactics in 3.0 until/unless plasmatech gets some loving.

 

It's a shame because I used to love playing tactics prior to 3.0, but it is just more viable for me to use the 3.0 Tactics.

[Zunayson]

Yes, this is true sadly. But the issue with that is that ravage is single target while pulse cannon is AoE. As Crinn said, the cleave damage has been reduced significantly, brining the most damaging ability down a good peg. For this reason I'll likely play tactics in 3.0 until/unless plasmatech gets some loving.

 

It's a shame because I used to love playing tactics prior to 3.0, but it is just more viable for me to use the 3.0 Tactics.

 

aoe damage across the board seems to be greatly reduced. Explosive probe, FT< smash, etc.

 

All the decent aoe's got nerfed, now it's all just spam aoe that they want to be slightly more decent. It makes no sense!

 

And firestorm does more damage than a fully buffed out FT? hahaha!

 

inb4 bw wants less aoe damage: Storm. That is all.

[ArielRebel]

aoe damage across the board seems to be greatly reduced. Explosive probe, FT< smash, etc.

 

All the decent aoe's got nerfed, now it's all just spam aoe that they want to be slightly more decent. It makes no sense!

 

And firestorm does more damage than a fully buffed out FT? hahaha!

 

inb4 bw wants less aoe damage: Storm. That is all.

 

I never played sorc since 3.0 so I can't know, but FOR REAL????? Pathetic balancing Bioware... pathetic...

 

Edit, I did some calculations using dulfy discipline calculator and with the +25% damage on force storm utility, FS does about 7800 damage on it's full duration (6 sec) --> 3900 damage on 3 sec which is only 300-400 damage less than fully buffed FT (which has smaller AoE, requires to build stacks and to be less than 10m away!).... poorly balanced indeed.

Edited December 27, 2014 by ArielRebel

[Zunayson]

well they have recklessness, and yes, storm can be flat out spammed and in groups of sorcs from a safety distance.

 

ez. since when are spammable aoes better than cooldown'd, fully buff'd, talented, spec-aoes? WAT

[Catholicc]

Tactics for PvP, as Plasmatech is currently one of the worst Disciplines for PvP. It's fun- but completely useless. I really only enjoy using it on low level mobs that I can one shot, because seeming plasmatize jump from on target to the next, before the animation can reset, is pretty funny.