PVE Balance Sage DPS in 3.0

[kamukotak]

Funny thing is, they said in one of the livestreams that they want sustained specs to do more DPS than burst specs, which is clearly not the case.

 

Even more funny is that the patch notes actually state that you should do the same damage when hitting lvl 60 as you did prior 3.0 on lvl 55. That's basically just wrong in our case.

[Citruzz]

Even more funny is that the patch notes actually state that you should do the same damage when hitting lvl 60 as you did prior 3.0 on lvl 55. That's basically just wrong in our case.

 

you should do the same damage at 60 and full 198 (full augmented also i think). But we are doing so much more right now, without any big impact on our gear (as lightning).

 

And don't underestimate the old second set bonus. It is pretty strong.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Citruzz

[kamukotak]

you should do the same damage at 60 and full 198 (full augmented also i think). But we are doing so much more right now, without any big impact on our gear (as lightning).

 

And don't underestimate the old second set bonus. It is pretty strong.

 

well the patch notes don't say anything about gear.

Players at level 55 will find that their damage has dropped, while players at level 60 end up having about the same amount of damage output that they did pre-3.0 at 55.

It probably depends on your interpretation of "end up having".

[Citruzz]

well the patch notes don't say anything about gear.".

 

Devs Q&A to patch 3.0

Edited December 10, 2014 by Citruzz

[KumbayaGOD]

I'll go record a video and get it up since I have free time now

 

EDIT:

 

 

so it wasn't 3.7 was 3.6 .

 

http://gyazo.com/046994eb380b58d66b6a5266786bc602

http://gyazo.com/6c30947f5041f0b3de1ce9da8adea938

http://gyazo.com/052b053f2a25ed7e4b594ca6abc5bb9d

 

 

hi milas

i have seen your your rotation and seem now you incorporate force leech in rotation , so now we use it anytime it is off gcd and affliction is on ?

[ChroniKill]

Serenity/Leech gets a damage buff from Sever Force/Creeping Terror so we should use it on CD right after SF/CT is re-applied to the target.

 

Edit: Not SF/CT - Weaken Mind/Affliction.

Edited December 11, 2014 by ChroniKill

[JDotter]

hi milas

i have seen your your rotation and seem now you incorporate force leech in rotation , so now we use it anytime it is off gcd and affliction is on ?

 

 

Correct affliction buffs its damage by 25%. System of priority is dots/df- force leech.

 

Serenity/Leech gets a damage buff from Sever Force/Creeping Terror so we should use it on CD right after SF/CT is re-applied to the target.

 

 

If you mean affliction yes.

 

 

On topic don't play this spec lighting without experience is much higher.

Edited December 11, 2014 by JDotter

[ChroniKill]

If you mean affliction yes.

 

I do - was mixing it with the old TKT/FL buff.

[Lord_Tartaros]

After a lot of moving some PNG-pics of the dots and their tick-timing, i came to this result:

 

http://imgur.com/mSAaus5

 

Gave it to Nadinääääää, to parse the rotation - because my gear is ... lower than it should be due to some unnerving marauder - and he says, he does about 200 DPS more with that static rotation.

Sb can verify?

[EloM-AlYannoel]

Even if I wasn't realy in love with this spec at any moment, I kinda feel like with the addition of FL in the rotation it wil become more fun. I won't came back on all the already expressed complains but I think the beginning of an explanation may come from a bug : When the TKT get to 2 seconds, his damages by hit are reduced by 25% !

 

 

PS : Sorry for the mediocre english.

[annoyed]

so I run this imp side.....

 

I have been playing around with it some, and with just some new 186 augs and some un-optimized 186 enhancements to boost my accuracy up to 110% and everything else for the most part being the 186 lvl 55 NIM gear or lower using old stims and adrenals.. I have been able to parse 1mill HP dummy at 3.5k dps I am in no way doing clean parses ether so we can still hit the numbers we need to

Edited December 14, 2014 by annoyed

[stkan]

so I run this imp side.....

 

I have been playing around with it some, and with just some new 186 augs and some un-optimized 186 enhancements to boost my accuracy up to 110% and everything else for the most part being the 186 lvl 55 NIM gear or lower using old stims and adrenals.. I have been able to parse 1mill HP dummy at 3.5k dps I am in no way doing clean parses ether so we can still hit the numbers we need to

 

other class can run 4K easily.. while madness/balance at it best is around 3.7K

[Skiggity]

Yeah, most of my guildies in similar gear (old set 180s and Nightmare 186s, the occasional 192 piece) are already in the 4100-4300 range with classes ranging from guardian and sentinel to commando. There was talk that the goal was to have classes parsing similar to their previous max in optimized level 60 gear, but it seems like the Balance/Madness tree was the only one that really got nailed by the 3.0 nerf super-hard.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

I'll go record a video and get it up since I have free time now

 

EDIT:

 

 

so it wasn't 3.7 was 3.6 .

 

http://gyazo.com/046994eb380b58d66b6a5266786bc602

http://gyazo.com/6c30947f5041f0b3de1ce9da8adea938

http://gyazo.com/052b053f2a25ed7e4b594ca6abc5bb9d

 

well here's what my sage just did, mind you certainly not the best attempt ever >.<

 

parsec: http://i.imgur.com/0ryOlly.jpg

video:

 

 

update: after some tweaking got up to 3519, but how much of that was lucky RNG is another story

Edited December 20, 2014 by Hichitsuki-hime

[Boroth]

Manage to do 3750 today with my sage balance (and I forgot to use my raid buff )

 

Screenshot : http://postimg.org/image/tqphs7lpd/

 

The rotation I used (prob not the best, but the best I've used so far) :

(non-opening, mid fight) WM > SF > FiB > FL > Vanquish > 2x disturbance

 

Obv all my vanquish and disturbance are proc'd with 4 stacks of PoM.

 

If you have a better rotation feel free to share it.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Boroth

[SpikeSaber]

Did 3,9

[Vanarion]

Erm how shall I read your "rotation" Boroth?

Two times disturbance after a Vanquish on Procc? And Force Serentity isn't in it either.

And a rotation you say? The lengths of the cooldowns don't allow for a static rotation.

You surely shifted abilities over time, didn't you?

So pls take a closer look on what you've written. The only information that makes sense to me is that you used Vanquish and Disturbance on proc wich is the obvious way to use them.

 

I don't think there is any special trick in our balance/madness discipline.

- Use Force serenity on CD when Weaken Mind is up (obvious because of the damage it does with just a cast length of a GCD and it's internal damage also)

- Use Force in Balance on CD

- Renew Weaken Mind and Severe Force when ran out

- Vanquish on procc over disturbance on procc

- Fill with TKT

 

My bet for the best use of Force Potency is Force serenity and FiB. (Edit: changed order)

 

Minuses and pluses of 3.0 compared to before:

- No more 6% crit chance bonus to Telekinetic Throw

- No more 25% damage bonus on Telekinetic Throw to targets affected by Sever Force

- 6% damage bonus to Telekinetic Throw from Empowered Throw

- No more +30% critical hit bonus damage for Dots and FiB

- No more telekinetic focal point (stacked up to 4% alacrity bonus + 36% bonus damage to rippling force)

- Force Supression damage bonus to dots down to 10% (from 20% before)

- Bonus damage of Presence of mind to Mind Crush and Disturbance down to 25% (from 35% before)

against

+ 5% crit chance bonus to Force Serenity nad Disturbance

+ global dot damage bonus up to 10% (from 9% before)

+ 15% dot damage to targets below 30% max health

+ Force Serenity skill that does 25% more damage on targets that got Weaken Mind

+ 12,5% dps to base Telekinetic Throw (see * bellow)

+ 10% AOE damage bonus to Targets effected by FiB

+ 5% force damage bonus to force atccks applied by Vanquish

 

I don't know how this sums up after all (the devs should usually simulate the outcome), but maybe the discipline is one of the few that met the design goal of "doing the same dps as before when geared out" and all those that parse over 4k now with just mediocre 3.0 gear are broken .

 

*For those who still not understand that "TKT does 25% less damage" thingy:

The bare skil yet does more DPS. Lets assume it would do 5k over full 3 sek:

1. TKT over 3sek => 5000 / 3 = 1666,7 DPS

2. TKT over 2sek 25% less damage => 5000 * 0,75 / 2 = 3750 / 2 = 1875 DPS)

But it lost it's damage buffs from one passive (6%) and a skill effect (25% from Sever Force)

Edited December 22, 2014 by Vanarion

[Vanarion]

@SpikeSaber How?

[Boroth]

Erm how shall I read your "rotation" Boroth?

Two times disturbance after a Vanquish on Procc? And Force Serentity isn't in it either.

And a rotation you say? The lengths of the cooldowns don't allow for a static rotation.

You surely shifted abilities over time, didn't you?

So pls take a closer look on what you've written. The only information that makes sense to me is that you used Vanquish and Disturbance on proc wich is the obvious way to use them.

 

 

Re-read, like I said it was obvious they were on proc

 

100% static, mindless rotation

[Cidgarrillo]

Manage to do 3750 today with my sage balance (and I forgot to use my raid buff )

 

Screenshot : http://postimg.org/image/tqphs7lpd/

 

The rotation I used (prob not the best, but the best I've used so far) :

(non-opening, mid fight) WM > SF > FiB > FL > Vanquish > 2x disturbance

 

Obv all my vanquish and disturbance are proc'd with 4 stacks of PoM.

 

If you have a better rotation feel free to share it.

 

 

It is 3.7k in the 500k hp dummy. Everybody uses 1M hp dummy, you cant measure your damage dealt properly if you are using another metric system.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

It is 3.7k in the 500k hp dummy. Everybody uses 1M hp dummy, you cant measure your damage dealt properly if you are using another metric system.

 

i know right =) if i'm lucky i open up with about 4k.... that gradually goes down to about 3.5 in the second part. so a 500k parse if in no way an indicator of average DPS.

[ceazare]

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but it looks like Wrath / Presence of Mind is only a 20% increase instead of 25% it says on tooltips.

[g_land]

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but it looks like Wrath / Presence of Mind is only a 20% increase instead of 25% it says on tooltips.

 

Well that might account for some of the damage imbalance but it would still need some work outside of that fix

[Vanarion]

It's not not only that Balance is severly underperforming.

It's not nice to play anymore too.

 

For max damage you need to include Force Serenity, wich has a 12 second CD.

Force in Balance and Vanquish got 15 seconds.

Weaken Mind and Sever Force got 18 seconds.

That leads to a massiv shifting of CDs through the rotation. That much that at least I have to permanently check my skillbar AND the enemy debuffs. Add some movement and you totally loose any feeling for your priorities.

This sucks. It's totally unintuitive.

[ChroniKill]

It's not not only that Balance is severly underperforming.

It's not nice to play anymore too.

 

For max damage you need to include Force Serenity, wich has a 12 second CD.

Force in Balance and Vanquish got 15 seconds.

Weaken Mind and Sever Force got 18 seconds.

That leads to a massiv shifting of CDs through the rotation. That much that at least I have to permanently check my skillbar AND the enemy debuffs. Add some movement and you totally loose any feeling for your priorities.

This sucks. It's totally unintuitive.

 

Add on to this that polarity shift/mental alacrity actually screws up the rotation further due to cool down reductions and you are left with a very messy rotation.

Edited December 30, 2014 by ChroniKill