Are Star Wars MMOs cursed? Or is Bioware just fully trying to assassinate it's legacy

[Aries_cz]

Pretty sure this thread makes no sense.

 

I agree, I fail to see how SoR changed anything drastically, or how any RPG elements were removed.

I assume this is another veiled rant that OP's overpowered hybrid is gone...

Edited December 3, 2014 by Aries_cz

[Aries_cz]

LMAO!

 

I read /munches spaceporn and I was WTH???

 

Dirty mind, Deewe, dirty mind...

[Kalfear]

Remember - there were not that many people playing SWG compared to SWTOR. If everyone that played SWG is playing SWTOR (and I doubt they are) you are probably looking at 1 in 10? (just pulling my numbers out of thin air)

 

more like 1 in 1000 and that might be over estimating SWG population at that

 

But I get what your talking about

 

Honestly dont see what the big deal is class wise.

I know my Sage healer changed very little over all except for couple new skills I never had before

Listening to others it seems if you went to top of tree previously the changes are minimal over all

 

If you were a hybred build you do suffer massive change but EA was VERY UPFRONT (strange for them btw) at start of pre order period that this change was designed to eliminate Hybreds.

 

So how exactly can any of them be upset when they were told BEFORE THEY ORDERED the hybred build was being removed intentionally.

 

What? Did they think EA was lieing to them about the changes?

 

I really do not get this modern generation of players

free this

free that

gimme gimme gimme

 

Was saying to buddy online other day that at this stage Id probably pay real money just to watch some of these modern gamers try to play original EQ (just so I could laugh endlessly at the out of control raging and pouting they would do).

 

Over all I think Rishii and Yavin are very visually appealing and the storyline is fairly good over all.

 

I am disappointed how quickly you can burn through the content and levels 55-60

but that just means ill be entertained for a couple weeks and then start looking elsewhere (new games) for something new.

Really would have thought EA would have figured it out by now that making fast and easy content only results in players blitzing through content and moveing on quickly.

[mleischer]

Welcome to expansion day. Where 99% of the people who are happy with the expansion are busy playing it, so the forum becomes the realm of the discontent (more than usual).

 

Some gripes are legit, some... are like this thread.

 

ROFLMAO!!! I truly believe that 1% of the players feel robbed by losing some advantage and 99% are fine overall with the changes. I also believe that most ppl decrying CU/NGE never even played SWG.

[Eldrenath]

ROFLMAO!!! I truly believe that 1% of the players feel robbed by losing some advantage and 99% are fine overall with the changes. I also believe that most ppl decrying CU/NGE never even played SWG.

 

100% agree.

 

I played my DPS guardian and tank vanguard last night. The gameplay is almost identical now to what it was. I felt like my guardian had MORE choices; for example now I can improve my freezing force skill and make it useful even when I'm DPS spec whereas it used to be locked deep in the tank tree. I chose to do so and that was not an option I had before.

 

I played for 4 hours last night, and my gameplay was almost identical to what it was before. The skills on my guardian made WAY more sense and I feel he's even more fun to play now (there were definitely some changes, but I have all the same skills and my rotation is almost the same. I just have some cool new DoTs I didn't used to have). Played my vanguard for a while and found the same thing. I can tank just as effectively as I could before. Nearly all my skills are there, and most work exactly the same. I have some new skills too. The utilities give me more freedom than I had as a pure build player before. One day of playing isn't enough for me to say I 100% like it. But my first impression from one day playing is that this is an improvement.

[Zethrion]

I played SWG, and had NGE not been maded, i would have been playing it until it where taken off....

 

This has the feel of NGE, when it comes to the low customization of class,

 

This is a sad trend of all RPG, they try to make No RPG gamers play it, by making it less difficult by lowering stuff u need to learn to play. This way they can try to market it for a big audience.

Its a cost benefit analyses, they make, "keeping players(RGPMMOers) vs selling copies to none repeat customers"

Sadly the no repeat is a bigger buck, but it lowers the game survivability, but then they make a new game, and we stupidly/sadly stand in line for it, and therefor they still make more cash....

 

Today we live in a throw away society, we buy, we keep for a while and throw it away, stuff not made to last anymore, the same goes for these games, sadly very sadly....

[MiTaKaD]

I am sorry but to say this patch is a step up is just stupid. I was always a fan of the old republic but all they do is dumb it down and then dumb it down some more. You can not even make your own build now... rly.? When they said we will get 3 more disciplines i had my hopes up but what they did is take the skill trees and make them the "new" ones. You can not change anything you just pick if you want to be a tank or dps or whatever then you have 7 or so points which you can spend. You have to be an idiot to say that this is good....Probably my last subscription anyways. Hey if you like a game that treats you like a moron fine but its not for me anymore. Btw sry for any mistakes i made im not that good at english.

[Eldrenath]

I am sorry but to say this patch is a step up is just stupid. I was always a fan of the old republic but all they do is dumb it down and then dumb it down some more. You can not even make your own build now... rly.? When they said we will get 3 more disciplines i had my hopes up but what they did is take the skill trees and make them the "new" ones. You can not change anything you just pick if you want to be a tank or dps or whatever then you have 7 or so points which you can spend. You have to be an idiot to say that this is good....Probably my last subscription anyways. Hey if you like a game that treats you like a moron fine but its not for me anymore. Btw sry for any mistakes i made im not that good at english.

 

You're totally right. The illusion of choice is much better. For example, on my healer I used to have the option NOT to choose to make my main heal skill channel faster. I also had the choice to skip the ability that reduced healing pushback and threat generated. Sure, 99.99% of healers chose that. And you'd be a complete idiot NOT to choose it.

 

We demand the illusion of choice! It has to LOOK like we have choices, even if we do not!

 

As for saying

 

You have to be an idiot to say that this is good

 

One could also say that you have to be an idiot to think the old system offered unlimited choice. It definitely had choice, but barely, if any, more than it does now (hybrids excepted, obviously, but that's another matter entirely). I played 2 of my characters last night and have more real choices then I used to. I can now choose stuff with my utilities that I could before because they were buried in other trees. I no longer have to make the stupid 3 point buys for +33/66/100% crit chance for a skill. But you know what? Nearly all of us took all of those anyway.

[MiTaKaD]

You're totally right. The illusion of choice is much better. For example, on my healer I used to have the option NOT to choose to make my main heal skill channel faster. I also had the choice to skip the ability that reduced healing pushback and threat generated. Sure, 99.99% of healers chose that. And you'd be a complete idiot NOT to choose it.

 

We demand the illusion of choice! It has to LOOK like we have choices, even if we do not!

 

As for saying

 

 

 

One could also say that you have to be an idiot to think the old system offered unlimited choice. It definitely had choice, but barely, if any, more than it does now (hybrids excepted, obviously, but that's another matter entirely). I played 2 of my characters last night and have more real choices then I used to. I can now choose stuff with my utilities that I could before because they were buried in other trees. I no longer have to make the stupid 3 point buys for +33/66/100% crit chance for a skill. But you know what? Nearly all of us took all of those anyway.

 

I said they keep dumbing it down not that the old system is better! My main point is that instead of improving the game they make it so damn easy. What if on top of the skill trees we had 3 more subclasses or someting .. much better right? Im pissed couse they are not improving but just cutting down. But on your point that the old system has an ilussion of choice i agree with you.

[Aries_cz]

I said they keep dumbing it down not that the old system is better! My main point is that instead of improving the game they make it so damn easy. What if on top of the skill trees we had 3 more subclasses or someting .. much better right? Im pissed couse they are not improving but just cutting down. But on your point that the old system has an ilussion of choice i agree with you.

 

To be honest, talent trees or needing certain ability before the next one could be acquired has been in cRPGs for some time now...

[MiTaKaD]

To be honest, talent trees or needing certain ability before the next one could be acquired has been in cRPGs for some time now...

So not the point....

[Ashlockheart]

Just saying... You've put an NGE in the NGE's NGE and taken the DAI philosophy of removing the RPG from the RPG. I mean guys, ***?

 

Here is the basic change, and your new choices.

 

Old way

Pick some damage talents, pick some heal talents, and pick some tank talents, and one of the best parts for players that don't pvp. you didn't have to take the talent that gives resilience, or reduces the cooldown or any of the talents that relate to pvp. I my self don't pvp. So I had no use of the resilience talents.

 

The New way.

You can choose to damage this way or this way. You can tank only one way, and you can only heal one way. Basically you are doing the same thing but just in different ways. You now have no choice but to have the resilience talents even if you don't pvp.

 

Now the question is witch one had choice?

The old way did have choice because you could choose what talents matter to you, and yes you could try new things. You could try using half of one tree and half of another. Or nip pick with each new level cap.

 

You can try to tell me the whole talent tree was a illusion or what ever bs you want to try to sell me, but my view won't change.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Ashlockheart

[Aries_cz]

Here is the basic change, and your new choices.

 

Old way

Pick some damage talents, pick some heal talents, and pick some tank talents, and one of the best parts for players that don't pvp. you didn't have to take the talent that gives resilience, or reduces the cooldown or any of the talents that relate to pvp. I my self don't pvp. So I had no use of the resilience talents.

 

The New way.

You can choose to damage this way or this way. You can tank only one way, and you can only heal one way. Basically you are doing the same thing but just in different ways. You now have no choice but to have the resilience talents even if you don't pvp.

 

Now the question is witch one had choice?

The old way did have choice because you could choose what talents matter to you, and yes you could try new things. You could try using half of one tree and half of another. Or nip pick with each new level cap.

 

You can try to tell me the whole talent tree was a illusion or what ever bs you want to try to sell me, but my view won't change.

 

You could never pick "some healing, some dps and some tank abilities", because no class can do all three.

You could pick "some healing/tanking and some dps", meaning you would either be not good enough at either, or you would do so to cheese the system by playing one of the overpowered hybrids that were impossible to balance.

 

Also, would you kindly point out to me which of the abilities that are unlocked by progressing through levels (meaning the one on the left) are PvP-only? Everything I have seen is pretty neutral and beneficial to both PvE and PvP.

[MiTaKaD]

You could never pick "some healing, some dps and some tank abilities", because no class can do all three.

You could pick "some healing/tanking and some dps", meaning you would either be not good enough at either, or you would do so to cheese the system by playing one of the overpowered hybrids that were impossible to balance.

 

Also, would you kindly point out to me which of the abilities that are unlocked by progressing through levels (meaning the one on the left) are PvP-only? Everything I have seen is pretty neutral and beneficial to both PvE and PvP.

Even still can you all pls stop pretending its better! Because here is what is going on right now. All the players have the same builds. Another tank jug is gonna have the same build as me (clicking 8 times to make it... cmon wake up) so now pvp is all about who has better gear even more then before. At the start when tor was subscription only hybrid builds DID work and they worked a lot. Then they made the last abilities in the skill trees so good that you pretty much could not ignore them so hybrid builds were useless. And now they completly take away your freedom do get it now or are you still happy to be so blind. Right now no matter how you spend your 7 "cute " points you are still the same tank as evrybody else, wanna do something diffrent guess what you cant and thats the whole point and why this patch pretty much pulled the final trigger on the game.

[DogeDandolo]

Even still can you all pls stop pretending its better! Because here is what is going on right now. All the players have the same builds. Another tank jug is gonna have the same build as me (clicking 8 times to make it... cmon wake up) so now pvp is all about who has better gear even more then before. At the start when tor was subscription only hybrid builds DID work and they worked a lot. Then they made the last abilities in the skill trees so good that you pretty much could not ignore them so hybrid builds were useless. And now they completly take away your freedom do get it now or are you still happy to be so blind. Right now no matter how you spend your 7 "cute " points you are still the same tank as evrybody else, wanna do something diffrent guess what you cant and thats the whole point and why this patch pretty much pulled the final trigger on the game.

 

True for some specs, not true for others -- ironically, Juggs have quite a few viable combinations, particularly in PvP.

[Aries_cz]

Even still can you all pls stop pretending its better! Because here is what is going on right now. All the players have the same builds. Another tank jug is gonna have the same build as me (clicking 8 times to make it... cmon wake up) so now pvp is all about who has better gear even more then before. At the start when tor was subscription only hybrid builds DID work and they worked a lot. Then they made the last abilities in the skill trees so good that you pretty much could not ignore them so hybrid builds were useless. And now they completly take away your freedom do get it now or are you still happy to be so blind. Right now no matter how you spend your 7 "cute " points you are still the same tank as evrybody else, wanna do something diffrent guess what you cant and thats the whole point and why this patch pretty much pulled the final trigger on the game.

 

Most tanks, DPSers and healers I met always followed the same basic structure, with few points to spare on something basic in other tress.

BioWare internal metrics would agree with me, most people picked their skill in the same order.

 

So please, stop claiming that your endgame tank was somehow vastly different from other thousands of endgame tanks.

[Khevar]

So please, stop claiming that your endgame tank was somehow vastly different from other thousands of endgame tanks.

Everyone, let's all say the "Non Conformist's Oath". Repeat after me:

 

I promise to be different!

I promise to be unique!

I promise not to repeat things other people say!

 

:cool:

 

(Apologies to Steve Martin)

Edited December 3, 2014 by Khevar

[thewitchdoctor]

So please, stop claiming that your endgame tank was somehow vastly different from other thousands of endgame tanks.

 

Maybe he was an Alacrity tank?! Cooldowns on my taunt? Ain't no one got time for 'dat!

[MiTaKaD]

Most tanks, DPSers and healers I met always followed the same basic structure, with few points to spare on something basic in other tress.

BioWare internal metrics would agree with me, most people picked their skill in the same order.

 

So please, stop claiming that your endgame tank was somehow vastly different from other thousands of endgame tanks.

Again you miss the point... anyway its not about how my tank was diffrent its about having choice you blind idiot. Is it that bad to want a better star wars game...

[Ashikuro]

This game is amazing. It keeps getting better and better.

 

I'm no fanboy. I'm critical when it's deserved, but I've been so impressed with what they've done with this game in the past two years. It has a really exciting future over the next few years. With the new Star Wars movies coming soon, this game will continue to grow.

 

Sorry some don't feel the same way.

[kongol]

This game is amazing. It keeps getting better and better.

 

I'm no fanboy. I'm critical when it's deserved, but I've been so impressed with what they've done with this game in the past two years. It has a really exciting future over the next few years. With the new Star Wars movies coming soon, this game will continue to grow.

 

Sorry some don't feel the same way.

 

hmm you do realize there are less and less people right?

[Ashikuro]

hmm you do realize there are less and less people right?

 

That's not been my experience at all. I'm on Harbinger and it's packed. PUG raids everywhere. There are a ton of old players returning and new ones checking it out thanks to ads/friends. It's going to get nuts when the movies come out too. Great time to be playing this game.

[Valmyas]

That's not been my experience at all. I'm on Harbinger and it's packed. PUG raids everywhere. There are a ton of old players returning and new ones checking it out thanks to ads/friends. It's going to get nuts when the movies come out too. Great time to be playing this game.

 

 

Quite right. My experience is that the game is growing and getting better.

And I think the new movie is going to be great. What fans and movie lovers should have got in 1999

[Tomb-Stone]

I can only assume you never experienced SWG CU to NGE...because your statement is so absurd given the change the NGE was to SWG vs what this is.

 

^ This

[Karnax]

^ This

 

I am fully aware of the changes between preCU, CU and NGE. I have also said that I realise this isn't as extreme. I had always hoped that SWTOR would become more complex and allow for more options in templates. I like mixing up my template, choosing which stats to put points into and trying to think outside the box. The new system now says instead of maybe combining a few aspects of sub classes with my primary choice I am only one thing and that is it. It's just boring, I don't want to be told outright what I am. There has to be some kind of freedom even if it's a small amount for me to think I'm actually choosing a role. It should always be that an idiot can royally ruin their template, if you remove that possibility all you really have is a game made for *******es.

 

Whatever, yeah it still essentially plays the same I just feel that Bioware used to represent roleplaying, they now have zero interest in the genre and it's just sad.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Karnax