Just spent around 50k at the trainer for skills that I already earned.

[WoenK]

This change makes me broke.

On my Agent, I did not really notice it, but on my Trooper it's a completely other story.

Must have spend around 200k before arriving on Rishi and I still do not have all the skills, missing around 200k.

For people who have millions surely no problem, but for the casual players who do not do dailies daily it is definately an issue.

At least now I understand why I saw more credits sellers, you really need them now

[Turajin]

Have the analysts hold off the recount until next week when this hits the players who didn't pre-order, though...

Well, you do know it already hit those that didn't pre-order? Disciplines, and all the "retrain skills you already had"-mess is up on every player, no matter wether he did pre-order or not, subbed or f2p...

 

A bit of advice. If you have a Corruption Sorcerer that is level 55, log him or her in, pay for the skills (its not much) and go to the fleet (Rishi mod vendor for level 55s) to stock up on 172 mods for both you and your comp. Chances are you have at least 350 basics, more than enough to cover both.

Just out of of curiosity: where should theese 350 basics come from? Do they magically appear? I know that commendations had been reworked, but you have to have them so they can be transferred into basics...

 

After three days of running just Black Hole and Section X you will have around 300k, which will cover most of your current costs needed to bring all your characters up to date.

Yeah, sure, will be fun doing three days of boring stuff just to be able to continue playing the stuff I do enjoy. Apart from that, again the question: how should I do that without having a toon that has the skills to do it? No cash to buy skills = no toon able to do the daylies.

[Voblat]

The costs will be an issue for some, but more importantly the principal of forcing players to pay for changes that devs instigated is just plain wrong.

 

But in truth, the real problem is that costs outstrip earnings in the expansion. I'm halfway to level 59, just finished the first solo flashpoint on Rishi, and the only thing I have bought is training. I'm about 300K down on where I was when I started.

 

My toon can afford it, so it doesnt affect me, but forcing people to grind old content to afford to train up when they should be enjoying the new stuff is just idiotic game design.

 

PS, for anyone who has the expansion, DO NOT waste comms on 172 mods. You can do the FA flashpoint solos even in 156 gear, and quests on Rishi drop effective gear to keep you updated to 178. Save the comms for later, and dont waste cash either.

[LordArtemis]

Just out of of curiosity: where should theese 350 basics come from? Do they magically appear? I know that commendations had been reworked, but you have to have them so they can be transferred into basics...

 

Well, they SHOULD come from the conversion. If you don't have 350 comms at least, for some reason (which is possible) you could run low level heroics to get them. Or you could use magic.

 

Yeah, sure, will be fun doing three days of boring stuff just to be able to continue playing the stuff I do enjoy. Apart from that, again the question: how should I do that without having a toon that has the skills to do it? No cash to buy skills = no toon able to do the daylies.

 

If you had actually read the post you would have seen that Corruption Sorc payout is very low compared to other classes. That means it it is not as expensive....cheaper, not as much lettuce...

 

Less potatoes

Fewer beans

Partial Benjamens

The whole 2 yards

The semi Monty

Only a few of the marbles

The dirty half dozen

much less than zero

quarter penny for your thoughts

The Second Sense

4 Candles

A half a turntable and a microphone.....

 

Does that clear up any confusion?

 

I made it pretty clear in the post Im just as angry as everyone else. Nothing like ready fire aim, eh?

Save your hyperbole for those that disagree with you. Or just use magic.

Edited December 5, 2014 by LordArtemis

[DakotaDoc]

BioWare..

 

I'm gonna be over here NOT leveling my skills.. I can't afford it.. the amount I've made going from 55 - 57, doesn't even come close to offsetting what I've had to pay in skill training.

 

Until BioWare fixes these outrageous credit costs (600k-ish at 60 is nuts.. that's almost twice what a preferred player can even have in their 'wallet' to spend! let alone anyone that is still a F2P player).. I can't afford to level, especially on characters that used the 12x boost to get to 55, as they barely made any money while leveling.

 

I forsee a ton of complaints about people who haven't trained all their skills (due to cost) being queued for Flashpoints, or PvP while they try and earn enough money to pay to level.

 

600K at LVL 60? I have a guildie that said it cost nearly 300K at 58. Who exactly are these way out of touch people are at BioFail?

 

I am still trying to generate credits to train my 55's to 55 and the new 500 skills at 50K each x3 for each toon.

WHO sets these PRICES? Do they realize it hinders game play. This is little different than the stupid outrageous prices set for the strongholds. I want the DEV's to understand there is a silent majority not complaining here, but they are not happy. Many guild members have left this game over stuff like this. LEFT THE GAME. and recent since the strongholds have come out. CC prices and credit sinks have become stupid high.

 

I am done.

/endgame

[Turajin]

Well, they SHOULD come from the conversion. If you don't have 350 comms at least, for some reason (which is possible) you could run low level heroics to get them.

As I said, to get some comms converted, there have to be comms. The only toon I have that had any non-planetary-comms before the conversion was my BH. And not many of them, as far as I recall, since the last time I had a large amount I spent them (haven't logged into that toon for 2 or 3 month). For the remaining lvl 55 toons I have, as far as I know they don't had have a single, or barely more than a handfull, of non-planetary coms. In example, my Jedi-Sentinel was almost lvl 55 when he finished Corellia, my Juggernaut did hit lvl 55 with finishing the story-line on Corellia. With one of them I started Makeb, but didn't got that far before I decided to play a different toon. So, hiw many non-planetary comms do you get when during the regular story-line? And for planetary comms... there aren't many on those toons, too - used them to upgrade armoring and mods on Corellia.

 

So, this "you should have hundreds of comms" is just a similar exaggeration like those "everyone has zillions of credits"-comments.

 

If you had actually read the post you would have seen that Corruption Sorc payout

Well, no corruption sorcerer - at least not at that level..

[LordArtemis]

As I said, to get some comms converted, there have to be comms. The only toon I have that had any non-planetary-comms before the conversion was my BH. And not many of them, as far as I recall, since the last time I had a large amount I spent them (haven't logged into that toon for 2 or 3 month). For the remaining lvl 55 toons I have, as far as I know they don't had have a single, or barely more than a handfull, of non-planetary coms. In example, my Jedi-Sentinel was almost lvl 55 when he finished Corellia, my Juggernaut did hit lvl 55 with finishing the story-line on Corellia. With one of them I started Makeb, but didn't got that far before I decided to play a different toon. So, hiw many non-planetary comms do you get when during the regular story-line? And for planetary comms... there aren't many on those toons, too - used them to upgrade armoring and mods on Corellia.

 

So, this "you should have hundreds of comms" is just a similar exaggeration like those "everyone has zillions of credits"-comments.

 

 

Well, no corruption sorcerer - at least not at that level..

 

"Chances are" is quite a bit different than "you should have". It is in no way similar to everyone has zillions of credits.

 

One comment states there is a good chance you have a large amount of comms based on the conversion. The other is hyperbole intended to insult those that are casual players.

 

Unfortunately for you the post does not change simply because you choose to read or interpret it wrong. The words remain intact.

 

Simple point. You either misread the post or made the mistake of thinking it was a post attacking those complaining about the problem. I think it's likely the latter. Either way, you were wrong on both counts.

 

Perhaps it might be best to just accept that and move on.

[Rykko]

Given the history of the previous SW MMO's new combat system(s), you would think they would have gone out of their way to make sure everything went extra smoothly.

 

The first sent a lot of ppl packing and the second gutted the game of players.

 

You would think they'd be ready to quickly respond to any issues with generosity rather than dismissiveness.

 

Pro tip for you Eric : nobody involved in video game community relations should ever type or utter the words "working as intended."

[Turajin]

"Chances are" is quite a bit different than "you should have". It is in no way similar to everyone has zillions of credits.

Depends on the point of view. Both is an assumtioned based solely on the experience of the one making the statement. SInce you do not now anything about the way I play the game, telling me what I should have or what the chances are what I might have might not be the same, but it's close enough to be considered similar.

 

Unfortunately for you the post does not change simply because you choose to read or interpret it wrong.

Or the other way around: not my reading was wrong, but your wording.

 

You either misread the post or made the mistake of thinking it was a post attacking those complaining about the problem.

Nope, I didn't take it as an attack or an offence. I'm quite aware that you are also not very happy about how BW handles the situation. I was just pointing out that your solution might have worked for you, and might work for someone else, but that it is wrong to assume just because it did work for you there are any chances it will work for anyone else. That's the difference between just stating your experience and making assumtions solely based on that data. So no, I don't consider your post as an attack, just as a (from my point of view) badly worded advise, and all I am doing is correcting you in that regard.

[LordArtemis]

So no, I don't consider your post as an attack, just as a (from my point of view) badly worded advise, and all I am doing is correcting you in that regard.

 

I think you were doing a bit more than "correcting me in that regard". I think you are NOW aware that I am one of the unhappy ones and simply was caught jumping the gun....

 

But I digress. Perhaps it is best to simply say fair enough and leave it at that.

[Henu]

Yeah im over this.. Ive played since pre order.. after the sh*t ive seen in this update and the lack of BW's help to fix things, i think its time for me to end my sub.

[Yezzan]

That taking back the gold because you trained the skills for free on the x12. Now they taking it back.

 

Some where in the fine print that none of us read; it says we will retroactively pay for our skills.

 

Yup it's there!

[Turajin]

That taking back the gold because you trained the skills for free on the x12.

Never got any training for free, never got any 12x XP...

[KyaniteD]

Given the history of the previous SW MMO's new combat system(s), you would think they would have gone out of their way to make sure everything went extra smoothly.

 

The first sent a lot of ppl packing and the second gutted the game of players.

 

You would think they'd be ready to quickly respond to any issues with generosity rather than dismissiveness.

 

Exactly my sentiments. I'm surprised by both how this issue was missed in the first place and how player complaints are dismissed now.

[DakotaDoc]

Exactly my sentiments. I'm surprised by both how this issue was missed in the first place and how player complaints are dismissed now.

 

They need to learn that for every one person that verbally complains, there are 1000's of dissatisfied CUSTOMERS that feel exactly the same way, most just drift away and they never know why.

[LordArtemis]

Keep trying...that didn't work...

 

Fair enough.

 

I guess my point was you are doing better IMO. Of course you do not need my permission or approval. Just wanted to point that out.

 

Tell me, would any kind of fix or refund in this case upset you? Do you stand against the idea of them making an adjustment here, or do you just stand against the idea of player complaints?

 

By the way....Macro? Thats new.

Edited December 5, 2014 by LordArtemis

[tdmaha]

Fair enough.

 

I guess my point was you are doing better IMO. Of course you do not need my permission or approval. Just wanted to point that out.

 

Tell me, would any kind of fix or refund in this case upset you? Do you stand against the idea of them making an adjustment here, or do you just stand against the idea of player complaints?

 

By the way....Macro? Thats new.

 

First macro isn't new I've used it a lot.

 

The only "fix" or refund I think would be fair is for old abilities. This does NOT include upgrades as you level to 60.

[VMalcolm]

The point that was made about not getting refunded for skills we bought that were removed is valid. Has anybody analyzed the classes to see who permanently lost what skills that they paid to train? :/

[LordArtemis]

First macro isn't new I've used it a lot.

 

The only "fix" or refund I think would be fair is for old abilities. This does NOT include upgrades as you level to 60.

 

Ah, I hadn't seen that one before. You haven't used stalker in a while either. Kind of miss that one. Oh, and my days are numbered here? I think that is pretty unlikely Tdmaha, and I think you know that.

 

That doesn't mean I do not make mistakes. I get posts removed as well you know. I'm not perfect.

 

So you DO think that players that have to repay for abilities they had before the expansion is a bit unfair, if I understand you correctly.

 

This is what I think.....

 

1) Players should not have to pay for abilities they already had, even if those abilities were spec abilities (though spec abilities would make more sense as ones you could have to pay for).

2) Players should have to pay for abilities that are brand new to the class or simply new period, including all new abilities and upgrades to prior abilities from 55-60.

 

So, IMO that would mean any ability that....

 

You did not have prior to the expansion

You had prior to the expansion but has a new upgrade past its prior level limitation

Any upgrade you receive that is 56-60

 

Should be fair game to pay for IMO.

 

The only abilities that should not be paid for are the ones that players had prior to the expansion, did not receive a new upgrade tier at level 55, and perhaps were paid for with credits as part of the base class. That also means abilities that were moved from base class to advanced class but did not receive any other upgrades, or simply had a name change.

Edited December 5, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Code_Airwolf]

If you ask me, this compounds the issue and would require much more coding and testing, charging for this but not that, ("i before e except after c, but with the following exceptions rule 1,2,3,4,5,6,etc) That makes it far too complicated, costs should be 0 for everything up to your current level that you were at before the expansion, plain and simple. Whether or not it was a power I had before or not, I had A power in that slot at that level before, and now I don't. And I paid for it already last time. Regardless if it's the same or a replacement, it really doesn't matter, imo. Anything other than a single free one time respec per character up to your current level would seem to complicate things and delay a quick fix option, thus, causing more and more time to go by and more and more in-game credit refunds to have to be figured out, and more and more people giving up and cancelling out. Not saying your solution isn't perhaps the BEST and more intricate solution, but for me time is money here, and it would be much more complicated and take much more time.

 

 

This is what I think.....

 

1) Players should not have to pay for abilities they already had, even if those abilities were spec abilities (though spec abilities would make more sense as ones you could have to pay for).

2) Players should have to pay for abilities that are brand new to the class or simply new period, including all new abilities and upgrades to prior abilities from 55-60.

 

So, IMO that would mean any ability that....

 

You did not have prior to the expansion

You had prior to the expansion but has a new upgrade past its prior level limitation

Any upgrade you receive that is 56-60

 

Should be fair game to pay for IMO.

 

The only abilities that should not be paid for are the ones that players had prior to the expansion, did not receive a new upgrade tier at level 55, and perhaps were paid for with credits as part of the base class. That also means abilities that were moved from base class to advanced class but did not receive any other upgrades, or simply had a name change.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Code_Airwolf

[Kalarie]

Ah, I hadn't seen that one before. You haven't used stalker in a while either. Kind of miss that one. Oh, and my days are numbered here? I think that is pretty unlikely Tdmaha, and I think you know that.

 

That doesn't mean I do not make mistakes. I get posts removed as well you know. I'm not perfect.

 

So you DO think that players that have to repay for abilities they had before the expansion is a bit unfair, if I understand you correctly.

 

This is what I think.....

 

1) Players should not have to pay for abilities they already had, even if those abilities were spec abilities (though spec abilities would make more sense as ones you could have to pay for).

2) Players should have to pay for abilities that are brand new to the class or simply new period, including all new abilities and upgrades to prior abilities from 55-60.

 

So, IMO that would mean any ability that....

 

You did not have prior to the expansion

You had prior to the expansion but has a new upgrade past its prior level limitation

Any upgrade you receive that is 56-60

 

Should be fair game to pay for IMO.

 

The only abilities that should not be paid for are the ones that players had prior to the expansion, did not receive a new upgrade tier at level 55, and perhaps were paid for with credits as part of the base class. That also means abilities that were moved from base class to advanced class but did not receive any other upgrades, or simply had a name change.

 

Yes. 99% of the qq is about the abilities that didn't change that had to be rebought, or about abilities that only one of two mirrors has to buy and the other doesn't. Fix those issues and this thread effectively dies.

[LordArtemis]

If you ask me, this compounds the issue and would require much more coding and testing, charging for this but not that, ("i before e except after c, but with the following exceptions rule 1,2,3,4,5,6,etc) That makes it far too complicated, costs should be 0 for everything up to your current level that you were at before the expansion, plain and simple. Whether or not it was a power iI had before or not, I had A power in that slot at that level before, and now I don't. And I paid for it already last time. Regardless if it's the same or a replacement, it really doesn't matter, imo. Anything but a single free one time respec per character up to your current level would seem to complicate things and delay a quick fix option, thus, causing more and more time to go by and more and more in-game credit refunds to have to be figured out.

 

Its a fair point I think. If it is a matter of "they do not have the ability to pick and choose what they charge for" the best course of action would be simply not charge for anything prior to level 55, even if it is only temporary.

 

But for me I would prefer to pay for those abilities that are brand new or received tier upgrades if they could do that. That is just me of course.

 

Yes. 99% of the qq is about the abilities that didn't change that had to be rebought, or about abilities that only one of two mirrors has to buy and the other doesn't. Fix those issues and this thread effectively dies.

 

That does seem to be the most common issue. Most folks in this thread seem to take issue with paying for something they already had, or paying for something on one class and not paying on another that is a mirror.

 

One of the reasons I still think some kind of bug may be involved in some cases.

Edited December 5, 2014 by LordArtemis

[tdmaha]

Yes. 99% of the qq is about the abilities that didn't change that had to be rebought, or about abilities that only one of two mirrors has to buy and the other doesn't. Fix those issues and this thread effectively dies.

 

Yeah it's not 99% of the complaints though. People are complaining about spending 350k, 500k, 1m one guy even said 13M to level up and level crafting. To buy old abilities come in around 150k. Most are complaining about the cost to level which I think is a ridiculous complaint. Maybe the free 12x spoiled a few.

[LordArtemis]

Maybe the free 12x spoiled a few.

 

I think Tdmaha made an important point here that should not be ignored. I DO think that having this drop right after 12XP was bad timing because it did amplify this cost in some folks minds.

 

If you are used to paying nothing, having to pay for abilities you already had becomes more profound. That doesn't mean it isnt unfair, but it is a valid point to make.

 

I think most folks would have likely let it go had it not come right after 12XP.

 

POOF! lol. Looks like lots of posts disappeared. Perhaps we should remain on topic from this point forward.

Edited December 5, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Hiragawa]

1) Players should not have to pay for abilities they already had, even if those abilities were spec abilities (though spec abilities would make more sense as ones you could have to pay for).

2) Players should have to pay for abilities that are brand new to the class or simply new period, including all new abilities and upgrades to prior abilities from 55-60.

 

So, IMO that would mean any ability that....

 

You did not have prior to the expansion

You had prior to the expansion but has a new upgrade past its prior level limitation

Any upgrade you receive that is 56-60

 

Should be fair game to pay for IMO.

 

The only abilities that should not be paid for are the ones that players had prior to the expansion, did not receive a new upgrade tier at level 55, and perhaps were paid for with credits as part of the base class. That also means abilities that were moved from base class to advanced class but did not receive any other upgrades, or simply had a name change.

 

This is it exactly. The differences between the mirrored classes where one has to train while the other doesn't make no sense. Clearly, brand new abilities/higher ranks and of course everything past 55 SHOULD be paid for. But the things our characters have been using all along should have just been grandfathered in to existing characters, especially when something as silly as a name change can cause this issue.

 

And once again, I have credits. I could easily go through and pay for the full respec on all of my characters and still (Probably) be fine for awhile. But the total discrepancies through all of this has me flat out refusing to do so.