Hate this new skill tree

[MillionsKNives]

What are the other reasons?

 

I'm not going to go into the specifics, because if you're interested you can read the various explanations in the various threads regarding this topic, most likely including this thread you're in right now.

 

In summary, increasing the skill points by 5 each expansion was unmaintainable, low level players suffered bad rotations until almost cap, hybrids suck, balancing trees is a waste of time, and everyone used the same build anyway.

Edited December 10, 2014 by MillionsKNives

[Grayseven]

I don't hate this new skill tree...far from it.

 

But I am concerned about some of the ability mechanics that changed, like moving OS to a cover only ability. That was an odd change IMO.

 

Some of the ability changes seem a bit odd here and there. And a few of the build rotations are much more clunky than they used to be, especially sniper IMO.

 

None of this is perfect yet. Far from it. I think we all agree. And I don't understand putting the AoE's from Sniper/Slinger to cover only abilities either.

 

I'm also seeing a bit of OP from some classes that will hopefully be noticed through the metrics breakdowns and the nerf cries in the PvP fourm but otherwise it doesn't feel worse than the trees. It makes me happy that I only have to allocate 7 utilities when I switch from dps to heals or tank specs though.

[agamemnon-]

what I don't like is these utilities, the lack of options they present, both in how many we are allowed to pick (only 7 or 8 instead of 46 or 51)

.

 

51 skill points to spend does not equate to 51 choices. People really need to start understanding the difference.

Edited December 10, 2014 by agamemnon-

[FlamingoChest]

Dibs on your credits.

 

already gave em away

[Lanja]

I'm liking the mobility on Gunnery Commando and anticipate loving it on my Gunslinger. Checking out my Seer next though. On my Trooper I lost a couple of utility abilities that I had previously (one loss is a serious bummer), but I retained most utilities and picked up a couple of new ones. One thing that's nice about the new system is that you can very quickly field re-spec, switching utilities around to suit the upcoming fight. I was a little concerned at how linear the new discipline path was, but so far game play is AOK. I was curious to see how the utility buffs to Rebuke would work for Sents, but not sure if the focus generation is really going to occur except in trash fights. If you've got a good tank a lot of the time you're just not going to be the target of attacks. I look forward to trying it out though.

[JediJuliusDavin]

yeah i already unsubbed im done with this game.

 

Don't let the freaking door hit you on the way out.

 

I love disciplines but haters gonna hate.

[Ninjen]

Can't stand disciplines. I would like the freedom of choice I had in the old skill tree back please Bioware. Thanks...

[agamemnon-]

Can't stand disciplines. I would like the freedom of choice I had in the old skill tree back please Bioware. Thanks...

 

Except you never had real choice in the skill trees, only the illusion of choice (unless you were a hybrid).

[Max_Killjoy]

Except you never had real choice in the skill trees, only the illusion of choice (unless you were a hybrid).

 

Why would you say it was an illusion?

[MaximusRex]

I just updated to this 3.0.....I gotta admit. I hate it. I hate hate hate it. I cant get used to it I lost like 4 main abilities i used. I hate it. The setup is lame. Cant stand playing anymore. Most likely will quit playing. and this sucks cause i love SWTOR and i was dreading this new system when it was mentioned. My friends and I play this game together and we all agree that we hate it, and its a shame cause we drop big bucks on the game and this sucks cause we cant stand it. I gave it a chance and I cant stand it. Really cant. Anyone else dislike this new system

 

"I pre-judged something as terrible, and low and behold I was right!"

 

I don't think you really gave it a chance at all. Also, there are a ton of threads on this topic, it didn't really need more forum spam.

[Ryllynyth]

Why would you say it was an illusion?

 

Because there was a 'correct' way to spec each tree, leaving you a handful (if that) of points you could do whatever with.

 

It's really no different than Disciplines, you just get the abilities automatically instead of having to click a box each level.

[Max_Killjoy]

Because there was a 'correct' way to spec each tree, leaving you a handful (if that) of points you could do whatever with.

 

Interesting -- what defined that "correct" way?

 

I wonder if you'll say something along the lines of "It maximized damage, healing, or tanking for that spec".

Edited December 14, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[davidp_newton]

Interesting -- what defined that "correct" way?

 

I wonder if you'll say something along the lines of "It maximized damage, healing, or tanking for that spec".

 

How did you guess? If doing serious content it was the correct way, not the "correct" way since it offered the best chance to clear that content if PvE or kill the opposition if PvP. If doing daily missions or similar you could run silly hybrids and of course PvP was littered with similar experiments. Daily missions are not difficult enough for it to matter too much, and the same could be said of tactical flashpoints. Go beyond that in difficulty and it starts to matter. Go beyond HM flashpoints and SM ops and it certainly does matter. Aside from a few defined exceptions like dotsmash hybrids were ineffective in HM ops and NiM ops and anyone who tried to run a hybrid like that in such content was an idiot who would get themselves removed from the group for causing wipes. In ranked PvP there was a bit more variation I would imagine, but again defined builds offered the best chance of killing the opposition which is the name of the game in that gameplay mode.

[Aries_cz]

Why would you say it was an illusion?

 

Because there was only few "correct" ways to pick your skills if you were going to tackle challenging content in the game, based on countless hours of experimenting and calculating done by theorycrafters.

Playing suboptimal build would lead to your DPS/TPS/HPS being lower, meaning the group wiped because of you. And nobody enjoys wiping (and paying repair costs)

[Ryllynyth]

Interesting -- what defined that "correct" way?

 

I wonder if you'll say something along the lines of "It maximized damage, healing, or tanking for that spec".

 

It's really no different than Disciplines, you just get the abilities automatically instead of having to click a box each level.

[Fimir]

Agreed with TS. Awful idea with this disciplines.

Now we are just like clones: no choice, no mistakes, no builds, no freedom. Get your levels and put them in a box. Stupid.

Bioware, it wrong. And boring

[Max_Killjoy]

It's really no different than Disciplines, you just get the abilities automatically instead of having to click a box each level.

 

That's not really an answer to the question, is it?

[Max_Killjoy]

Because there was only few "correct" ways to pick your skills if you were going to tackle challenging content in the game, based on countless hours of experimenting and calculating done by theorycrafters.

Playing suboptimal build would lead to your DPS/TPS/HPS being lower, meaning the group wiped because of you. And nobody enjoys wiping (and paying repair costs)

 

And if you weren't doing that content? If you focused on other things? If you had different priorities?

[Aries_cz]

And if you weren't doing that content? If you focused on other things? If you had different priorities?

May I ask what are you doing then? Running low level dailies? RPing in cantinas? If so, any change to talent assignment is wasted on you.

In addition to helping elder game content, the change also helped early game, at least to those who play group content, allowing them to become their chosen role early. Tanks were not good tanks until level 35, healers were not good healers until about the same level. With these changes, abilities that allow them to play these roles are now acquired much sooner.

[Max_Killjoy]

May I ask what are you doing then? Running low level dailies? RPing in cantinas? If so, any change to talent assignment is wasted on you.

In addition to helping elder game content, the change also helped early game, at least to those who play group content, allowing them to become their chosen role early. Tanks were not good tanks until level 35, healers were not good healers until about the same level. With these changes, abilities that allow them to play these roles are now acquired much sooner.

 

Before SoR, I was doing a lot of top-end dailies on a couple of characters, and adding levels to various alts. Since early release, I've been taking the characters who were 55 through the solo-mode FA content, and then through the SoR content, but I've delayed any more SoR startups until the rest of the cutscene bugs are worked out. I am doing Yavin dailies on one character.

 

Before 3.0, my Sorc was Corr/Mad. Out of curiosity, switched to Lighting, and Madness specs, and other than feeling a lot squishier it didn't seem much different in effectiveness, the Oricon and CZ dailies weren't appreciably different in speed or ease, so I switched back to Corr/Mad to enjoy it while it lasted -- it was a better build for me, for what I was doing. The irony is, because of what was moved to Utilities on Sorcs, that character was far less hosed by 3.0 than my straight-up Arsenal Merc.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[Lotharofxev]

Max is right. It's irrelevant why people picked certain talents over others. Bottom line it was their CHOICE. Now? Because Devs are seemingly incompetent, EVERYONE gets a cookie cutter build.

 

Just a terribad decision to change the trees.

[EllieAnne]

Playing suboptimal build would lead to your DPS/TPS/HPS being lower, meaning the group wiped because of you. And nobody enjoys wiping (and paying repair costs)

 

That's BS. Groups wipe because people don't know the fight or don't do their job. The wipe when DPS pulls aggro and doesn't drop threat or when the tank gets shot in the face bt Toborro's laser.. I doubt any group ever wiped because a few people were hitting only 94.6% of the maximum had they had the "right" build.

[Grayseven]

That's BS. Groups wipe because people don't know the fight or don't do their job. The wipe when DPS pulls aggro and doesn't drop threat or when the tank gets shot in the face bt Toborro's laser.. I doubt any group ever wiped because a few people were hitting only 94.6% of the maximum had they had the "right" build.

 

Never done HM/NiM ops with minimum gear then, have you?

 

Even if all the mechanics are perfect, if you aren't putting out the necessary DPS to beat the enrage timer or can't keep up with raid wide damage healing because your heals aren't hitting optimally and you keep finding yourself out of resource, you simply won't win. The harder fights were designed around optimal dps, healing and tanking levels and if you weren't optimal you were dead. Being over-geared could mitigate this to an extent at times, but they don't design fights around being over-geared.

 

Your "choice" when it came to the old trees was a lie. You didn't have any choice at all. The stubbornness of people trying to pretend they used anything but the optimal build because "choice" is laughable.

[davidp_newton]

Before SoR, I was doing a lot of top-end dailies on a couple of characters, and adding levels to various alts. Since early release, I've been taking the characters who were 55 through the solo-mode FA content, and then through the SoR content, but I've delayed any more SoR startups until the rest of the cutscene bugs are worked out. I am doing Yavin dailies on one character.

 

Before 3.0, my Sorc was Corr/Mad. Out of curiosity, switched to Lighting, and Madness specs, and other than feeling a lot squishier it didn't seem much different in effectiveness, the Oricon and CZ dailies weren't appreciably different in speed or ease, so I switched back to Corr/Mad to enjoy it while it lasted -- it was a better build for me, for what I was doing. The irony is, because of what was moved to Utilities on Sorcs, that character was far less hosed by 3.0 than my straight-up Arsenal Merc.

 

So in other words you are doing content that is so easy that class balance issues don't come up. No wonder you don't have a clue about why hybrids were a bad thing in high-end content. You may not like the changes, but they were done for a good reason and they are not going to be reversed.

[davidp_newton]

Max is right. It's irrelevant why people picked certain talents over others. Bottom line it was their CHOICE. Now? Because Devs are seemingly incompetent, EVERYONE gets a cookie cutter build.

 

Just a terribad decision to change the trees.

 

Maxkilljoy is correct about it being irrelevant as to why people picked certain talents over others as to whether they will bellyache about the change. However Maxkilljoy is incorrect about everything else. The following are not opinions, but facts.

 

1. Skill trees scale terribly when expansions are released
   
2. Skill trees result in a massive amount of testing being required which stretches developer resources
   
3. Skill trees lead to players causing problems for themselves by doing things like spreading points out over all 3 trees, meaning that they cannot complete leveling story missions
   

 

Consider gearing where we still have essentially limitless "choice". The only thing that we don't have "choice" over is is that we cannot equip a heavy armour piece on a medium armour or light armour character or a medium armour piece on a light armour character. What does this lead to?

 

1. Lots of people running around with green gear
   
2. Lots of people running around as sorcerors with strength gear, vanguards with willpower gear, scoundrels with defence rating gear or juggernauts with cunning gear
   
3. Ninja looters grabbing everything because an item shows up green for some stats on their compare dialogue box
   

 

How does choice help in those situations? It means people have the worst gear quality in the game and the least flexible gear quality in the game. It means that people equip inappropriate items for their class because they have the choice to do so. It means people cause stress and drama in multiplayer content by stealing loot. Tell me again how virtually unfettered choice helps the game?

 

Oh and you are also wrong on your last point. They did NOT change the skill trees: they REMOVED the skill trees.

Edited December 15, 2014 by davidp_newton