Econometrix Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I have been debating whether to level a marauder or juggernaut for post-3.0 play. I like the disciplines system and a lot of the changes I see for both ACs. However, in many ways the juggernaut looks way more appealing than the marauder. Can someone convince me of the merits of the marauder vis-à-vis the juggernaut, particularly annihilation vs. vengeance and fury vs. rage? From the available information, vengeance looks to be a killer discipline with vengeful slam and multiple damage boosts to sweeping slash. Further, juggernauts appear to have a lot of talents with general utility, whereas the marauder’s appear to be geared toward a single mode of play (e.g., raiding or PVP). The fact that the marauder has to use a talent to get the 15% speed boost in ataru form is irksome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Silence is your answer, I would bet that a lot of people are not playing marauders anymore. At least for me, I am switching to my Jugg or Sniper for the new xpac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Econometrix Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 (edited) Ouch. Sniper was my main but is becoming intimate with the shelf due to engineering and MM changes. Would love for someone to provide some critigue of jugg vs. mara changes. My impression is that vengeange will possibly be spec to beat for AoE/multi-target. Anni may have better DoTs and ST damage, but jugg will combine excellent damage with best defensive CDs in game. Given changes to carnagae, I am not sure what its role will be. Fury/rage seem to be burst with a mixed bag of AoE and ST abilities. As stated, jugg seems to have better talents overall. To be clear, I state my thoughts from a PVE perspective. I have never tanked and have no interest in doing so, so immortal would seem to be a wasted discipline. Edit: Sorry for spelling errors. Edited November 30, 2014 by Econometrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hei_Atzfel Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Why should you play mara in 3.0? Because Fury is going to be OP, that's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Econometrix Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 Why should you play mara in 3.0? Because Fury is going to be OP, that's why. Thanks for responding. Not necessarily looking for OP but useful and solid damage would be good. What makes you say fury will be OP? It is the shared tree, and I have not seen a lot to distinguish it from rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) Ok, here's a brief summary of all marauder disciplines in 3.0, as well as advantages over other specs. MARAUDER ANNIHILATION: ADVANTAGE OVER VIGILANCE: Elemental damage debuff, less time spent channeling, bloodthirst ADVANTAGE OVER RAGE: More sustained, bloodthirst CARNAGE: ADVANTAGE OVER FURY/RAGE: More DPS, less time spent channeling ADVANTAGE OVER ANNIHILATION/VENGEANCE: More Burst, less time spent channeling FURY: ADVANTAGE OVER RAGE: It has cheaper attacks, so if you screw up it doesn't hurt as much ADVANTAGE OVER VENGEANCE: Its far burstier and isn't channeling master strike as much. Also bloodthirst in all cases In other words, if you have someone giving out bloodthirst, or the internal/elemental debuff, or the AoE DR debuff, then no need to worry about a marauder Edited December 1, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hei_Atzfel Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Thanks for responding. Not necessarily looking for OP but useful and solid damage would be good. What makes you say fury will be OP? It is the shared tree, and I have not seen a lot to distinguish it from rage. Because jugg doesn't have the fury mechanic that the marauder does. Rage jugg can't start a fight with the ability to instantly get 3 shockwave stacks, while still having the ability to instantly generate another set right after the initial raging burst without using force crush. For instance; Brooding -> Leap -> battering assault -> berserk -> raging burst -> frenzy -> ravage -> furious strike -> obliterate -> berserk -> smash -> V throw -> either dead or pitifully close. Jugg can't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamyourfatherr Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) A lot of people are complaining about the changes to carnage, mainly about the gore nerf and the removal of the root. Those might be problems but I actually think it will have higher sustained then it did previously due to the addition of the passive 20% armor debuff. Also I think it will be easier to get a full ravage off now because of the changes to force choke. Being able to force choke then gore/ravage and force scream(I can't remember the new skills name) with out being able to be stunned or knocked back by the person your trying to do it to will be amazing. Some utilities the jugg is getting are pretty op while the mara doesn't really get any thing new. Mainly the one that makes the jugg slow buff the movement speed of every one around them, I can imagine that being very annoying for all melee but more so for maras because they can only really remove the slow once with force camo i(f they spec for it). I've played my mara since launch I'm going to be leveling it to 60 first over my jugg. I feel if your a decent player you'll be fine on a mara but it might be more annoying then it used to be with the addition of more utility for most other classes. Edited December 1, 2014 by Iamyourfatherr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Econometrix Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Thanks all! Hei and Iam, thank you for the specific examples. Both of your responses seem to be PVP oriented. I do not routinely play PVP, but if I did the defense of the jugg would likely be the deciding factor. The fury burst example would be relevant in some PVE contexts. However, I would like to know others' opinions as to whether in more general PVE content (group, solo) the mara could be expected to do equal or greater ST and MT/AoE damage than the jugg. History would suggest that my concerns are unfounded, but the dramatic changes to vengeance--and a lesser degree rage--raise questions. Also, if anyone has an opinion on what the new role of carnage will be, I would be happy to hear it. I see anni as sustained and fury as generalized burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenjigreat Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 If you ever read any of you threads you know what I think about marauders in 3.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Econometrix Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 If you ever read any of you threads you know what I think about marauders in 3.0 Thanks Kenji, but I believe your posts have focused on the mara's PVP viability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenjigreat Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) Thanks Kenji, but I believe your posts have focused on the mara's PVP viability. From what I heard from the PVE people , Ranged is the way to go for PVE so .... Edited December 1, 2014 by Kenjigreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) I've never played any marauder spec outside of Annihilation, and it looks like in 3.0 it is still going to be the most CC susceptible spec in the game. Makes it damn near impossible to play, for me. I spend 99% of my time in combat slowed, rooted or stunned, and to be honest its just beyond ridiculous. Tying a CC break to Predation is just stupid, considering our main class mechanic relies on using Berserk. Not to mention every other class gets an on demand immunity of some kind, whereas the one we get in 3.0 not only interferes with our dps but also requires stacks of Fury. Edited December 1, 2014 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Econometrix Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 I'm starting to feel like that Limp Bizkit song... "Like a chump, hey!" Seriously, a lot of the complaints seem to be driven by PVP concerns. Is there no love for mara in PVE??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizersan Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 From what I heard from the PVE people , Ranged is the way to go for PVE so .... not so much so I had a chance to play just about everything when 3.0 was on the pts and they all are about even when it comes to dps it really just comes down to mastering the new rotation and gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizersan Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 while most people didn't see this info because they didn't have access to the pts they never saw that the devs have been nerfing and buffing classes to even them out so things that you thought were op when they streamed the classes have been toned down due to dps data they got from the pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 while most people didn't see this info because they didn't have access to the pts they never saw that the devs have been nerfing and buffing classes to even them out so things that you thought were op when they streamed the classes have been toned down due to dps data they got from the pts. Have they done anything with the animations, such as the stupidly disappointing ones for Annihilation or Madness (Hatred)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamyourfatherr Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Mara will be fine in pve every issue people are complaining about is related to pvp. I bet they still outdps juggs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Thanks for responding. Not necessarily looking for OP but useful and solid damage would be good. What makes you say fury will be OP? It is the shared tree, and I have not seen a lot to distinguish it from rage. Are you talking for PvP or PvE? It makes a big difference. The Jug is still going to be substantially better off as far as defensive cooldowns, but I suspect that annihilation will still be ahead of vengeance for damage output (although this will need to be tested after 3.0 goes live). From what I can see, Fury and Rage are still going to have relatively equal and very high burst output, but Rage is going to have the better CC assortment and defensive cooldowns (due to superior utilities). Fury will still have better group buffs though. And I still don't know about carnage. It could be pretty bad, or pretty good if the beserk alacrity buff affects cooldowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluvi Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Look up my posts on the who is retiring their mara/sent in 3.0 thread, that shold enlighten you. Carnage will still be fine for pve. If you don't ever pvp, by all means, go mara, you'll probably do more dps. If you plan to pvp at all or tank, go jugg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinplainview Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 "Please sell me on the marauder in 3.0" *ahem* No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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