Flagging and Feign Death

[Shipwright]

This ridiculous emote thing aside, the system is absurd on a pve server and the exploits will not be fixed/removed. Just make a damned toggle already to turn off the absurd auto flagging on pve servers.

Just get rid of this constant griefing that goes on so we can be done with this crap..

 

People who like auto flag can have it, those who want an actual pve server can turn it off. Only the griefers are discomfited.

 

However the griefers who oppose this have nothing to worry about; the issue arises regularly and nothing is done about it.

[LordArtemis]

I would not agree with those that say that nothing has been done. A few of the individual instances where players were "griefing" others by tricking them into a flag were fixed, like the AoE grief.

 

If Bioware finds merit in the suggested change it is possible we will see the change. I see very little love from Bioware for this kind of behavior, they have made it very clear in the past they do not approve.

 

That said, it is important to hear all sides, those that support, oppose and the reasons why. I think the discussion is healthy. so all sides are considered.

[ivanhedgehog]

I would not agree with those that say that nothing has been done. A few of the individual instances where players were "griefing" others by tricking them into a flag were fixed, like the AoE grief.

 

If Bioware finds merit in the suggested change it is possible we will see the change. I see very little love from Bioware for this kind of behavior, they have made it very clear in the past they do not approve.

 

That said, it is important to hear all sides, those that support, oppose and the reasons why. I think the discussion is healthy. so all sides are considered.

 

the devs could make pvp servers where people that want to pvp can go and pve servers where people that do not want to pvp will not be forced into it. they might even make a 3rd category where people that want to can flag themselves and pvp. its a radical idea whos time has come.

[TravelersWay]

I understand your viewpoint. I simply do not agree with it. I do agree that specific exploit holes in PvE triggering PvP (such as a flagged player running through AoE). But that's about fixing a hole that is being exploited.

 

I do not support a local hard switch on PvP for players. I agree that exploits should be fixed, and they have over time in this game. There is no need to rework the flagging system itself to address such exploits, which is why I disagree with the viewpoint.

 

Well, having a manual only switch for the PvP flag would not only fix whatever exploits are currently out there, but also be a fail safe against possible future exploits that may arise or be discovered by players. In the end, it would simply save the time from having to fix each such exploit individually. It would also leave the choice to participate in PvP relatively unchanged as players would simply turn their flag on when they feel like playing some PvP, just as they do now. The only real change would be the spur of the moment, "Heck Ima attack you" deals, which would only be delayed by the fraction of the second it takes to toggle the flag on at that moment.

Edited November 29, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Grayseven]

I'm against dumbing down the game for careless people. Anyone that is even half-way attentive would never get caught by this sort of silliness.

 

Things that cannot be reasonably avoided (from a griefing perspective) in an MMO need to be fixed. This is NOT one of those things.

 

Why an MMO must be dumbed down to protect the careless is beyond me. I guess it's a symptom of the modern MMO player base. This, and other modern MMOs, are actually quite good at allowing casual play without hindering the player. That said, even modern MMOs are not going to give players complete immunity to carelessness, nor should they IMO.

 

TL;DR: careless is careless, and it results in outcomes that would teach most intelligent human beings to simply be a bit more careful.

 

I know that analogies do not generally work well in the forum as people conflate and distort right over top of them.... but here is one anyway --> When a child puts their finger in an open light socket, generally speaking Physics rewards them with a warning to not do it again. A child that insists on continually putting their finger in more light sockets... is looking for pain. A child that demands that the electric company remove all the light sockets instead is being ... an immature child.

 

What you call dumbing down the saner portions of the player base consider a long overdue fix.

 

Yes, if you change the way you play your game you can avoid every d-bag out there that does everything in their power to do anything they can to annoy, aggravate and otherwise ruin a players in-game experience.

 

Or, EA/BW can provide a simple fix to ensure that the efforts of bad PvPer's who can't beat anyone else in the game stop griefing on players who just want to go about their business without having to worry about what they have to do to avoid the actions of d-bag players.

 

Dumbing down the game involves making NORMAL game play easier. Dumbing down the game does NOT include adding fixes to prevent aberrant behavior by d-bags.

 

Learn the difference. You are just making yourself look bad by calling a long overdue change to the way players get flagged in any form "dumbing down the game".

[LordArtemis]

Well, it could be looked at as dumbing down the game, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.

 

Purchase confirmations, AC choice popup, bind warning, price per unit, flag warning, all of these things can be considered "dumbing down the game" or protecting us from ourselves. But I would argue that the game is better for it, certainly not suffering because of it.

 

Like this proposed change there are little if any negative effects IMO. I don't think that dumbing down the game, so to speak is a bad thing in most cases.

[AndoEyrune]

Well, it could be looked at as dumbing down the game, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.

 

Purchase confirmations, AC choice popup, bind warning, price per unit, flag warning, all of these things can be considered "dumbing down the game" or protecting us from ourselves. But I would argue that the game is better for it, certainly not suffering because of it.

 

Like this proposed change there are little if any negative effects IMO. I don't think that dumbing down the game, so to speak is a bad thing in most cases.

 

Exactly, if the game is "dumbed down" by warning us about entering enemy territory and being flagged, it seems that warning us about attacking a flagged player should be ok as well

Edited November 29, 2014 by AndoEyrune

[Brewski]

I understand your viewpoint. I simply do not agree with it. I do agree that specific exploit holes in PvE triggering PvP (such as a flagged player running through AoE). But that's about fixing a hole that is being exploited.

 

I do not support a local hard switch on PvP for players. I agree that exploits should be fixed, and they have over time in this game. There is no need to rework the flagging system itself to address such exploits, which is why I disagree with the viewpoint.

I can respect that, and I even understand your opinion.

 

I myself have never been flagged against my will, at least not in this game. So from a personal standpoint, a change won't affect me either way. However, in general I want this game to attract and keep players, and I think this sort of predatory griefing drives more people away than it attracts. It takes away from the game, and brings nothing in return. So any chance I see to reduce or remove the behavior, I have a tenancy to agree with it.

 

Also, I'm basically of the opinion that the flagging system has been poorly implemented since day 1, and it's well past time for it to be fixed.

 

But again, that's an opinion. Others may differ.

[LordArtemis]

Any system that allows situations where you are forced to engage in a playstyle that you do not wish to engage in is not a good system IMO....even if those situations are your fault.

 

I am not aware of any system that interrupts PVP and forces PVP players to PVE. I would imagine if such a system existed, there would be widespread complaints about it. Just having PVE quests in a PVP area was enough to cause complaints (the gree event) since some folks felt they should be PVP based quests instead.

 

The only time this happened to me was once on Hoth, back when the AoE bug was in place. I dropped an AoE (lightning storm), a flagged player (stealthed) ran into the AoE and I was flagged.

 

Unfortunately for that player I was wearing my PVP gear, the set that was given to us at the time at max level, filled with Expertise (I still have the earpiece and implants) and I subsequently killed him....and then hunted him for a while.

 

Naturally he was a bad sport about it.

 

It is surprising to me to see how often folks that engage in this sort of activity are bad sports, but it seems to be the norm....they do not mind being predatory, but certainly mind having the tables turned on them.