3.0 and Bioware still hates tanks

[EllieAnne]

So us tanks have been QQ at the complete lack of respect BW has for us. Much (but not all) of it centers around their idea that we need to stack accuracy. Some state that higher accuracy makes for more damage which makes it easier to hold aggro but those of us that are ops battering rams know that ACC is just a wasted stat. So what is BW's solution?

 

"Requiring" accuracy because taunts can now miss in 3.0. Seriously? Taunts missing? Why in the name of god is that a solution? In some fights, a missed taunt may be equal to a wipe. Why make things harder on us and requiring us to stack stats we don't need. For comparison, look at a class that gets all the love - healers. Healers NEVER take accuracy because heals NEVER miss. You talk about fairness and balance and game play, then how about evening out the playing field and making heals miss once in a while. Or an even better solution, why not actually appreciate those of us that take on the specialized roles and don't make us stack worthless stats.

[Khantalas]

You realize of course that tank stances are expected to get a bonus to accuracy in 3.0, and the taunt miss chance is only to prevent DPS characters from taunting enemies.

[FunkiMunki]

Tank stances will get a 10% accuracy buff to counter that. Tanks in PvE (and most likely even in PvP) won't miss taunts unless the devs decide to increase the defenses of a boss to make it some form of mechanic. The change is simply to stop taunt equipped dps classes from taunting 100% of the time mainly in PvP where accuracy isn't used as much, however i think a properly geared dps in PvE will have enough accuracy to taunt safely.

[EllieAnne]

And MAYBE I would buy into all of that if BW takes out all of the tank gear that has accuracy in it. But I'll bet ya that just like the 168/180 gear we get now it'll still have accuracy in it.

 

Oh and why would a DPS be able to taunt in 3.0? With the discipline system shouldn't tank disciplines be the only ones getting a taunt skill?

 

And if you're DPS and decide to taunt off the tank, you deserve to die.

 

So in short - taunts missing and tanks needing accuracy is still BS.

[Zoom_VI]

Tank stances will get a 10% accuracy buff to counter that. Tanks in PvE (and most likely even in PvP) won't miss taunts unless the devs decide to increase the defenses of a boss to make it some form of mechanic. The change is simply to stop taunt equipped dps classes from taunting 100% of the time mainly in PvP where accuracy isn't used as much, however i think a properly geared dps in PvE will have enough accuracy to taunt safely.

 

This has nothing to do with PvP, players don't have any resist chance in PvP outside of a very few limited cooldowns.

[FunkiMunki]

And MAYBE I would buy into all of that if BW takes out all of the tank gear that has accuracy in it. But I'll bet ya that just like the 168/180 gear we get now it'll still have accuracy in it.

I have no doubts that will still be the case, needing multiple token pieces to optimize gear will still be a thing, wether we like it or not.

 

Oh and why would a DPS be able to taunt in 3.0? With the discipline system shouldn't tank disciplines be the only ones getting a taunt skill?

Because the taunts are a base class skill. All DPS classes keep a single taunt, whilst the AoE taunt now works as a threat drop outside of PvP.

 

And if you're DPS and decide to taunt off the tank, you deserve to die.

Not always. I have succesfully replaced a tank in ops for a short while after one has died while they got rezzed/healed. Being able to taunt during a tank swap mechanic meant the other tank didn't die too and we could continue the fight with minimal fuss. There is a time and a place where off tanking is a good thing. Taunting off tanks while everything is going fine is silly, and yes you deserve to die then.

 

So in short - taunts missing and tanks needing accuracy is still BS..

I don't think it is half as bad as you seem to think, but ofc, that is my opinion and you can have yours.

/5char

[Reno_Tarshil]

This has nothing to do with PvP, players don't have any resist chance in PvP outside of a very few limited cooldowns.

 

Accuracy is still Accuracy

[Slurmez]

It is pretty stupid, you will see raid wipes entirely due to a rng roll even more than now

[Loc_n_lol]

Taunts will still not miss outside invulnerability phases, and tank's interrupts/high threat attacks will no longer randomly miss. If anything it's less random. There isn't a single operation boss in the game that has more force/tech resistance than the base 10% every champion gets, and there isn't any operation boss that throws accuracy debuffs. It'll be fine.

 

Now about that horrible, horrible gear itemization, time will tell...

[Darkelefantos]

Oh, there's worse than Accuracy. Alacrity. And by making that stat useful, they may actually force us into having it

 

Alas, who needs Defense Rating anyway? More Jugg Tanks with 40% Shield 12% Defense plox.

[Zoom_VI]

Accuracy is still Accuracy

 

He said it would effect PvP. Except it won't affect PvP because player characters don't have the base resist chance that gold-silver mobs do, therefore the taunts still won't miss in PvP. Except on a assassin with force shroud.

[frennky]

adding accuracy for tanks makes sense since they previously made changes that affect interrupts etc. interrupts and even CCs can miss on a tank, it's rare but it happens. getting 100% accuracy should fix that.

 

while i find taunt ability to be helpful on a dps in pve, i must agree it should be tank only ability. why should dps get 1 free 'utility' ability? same goes for guard, it should be available only for tank discipline, not based on stance/cell. if i recall there was a bug where dps could guard even in dps stance.

 

also, what's the point of stances, cells? if you pick a tank discipline you surely won't play without tank stance/cell and i believe it goes similar for dps. each discipline is meant for 1 specific stance/cell so simply remove stances/cells and add bonuses to discipline itself.

[JumperPenn]

And MAYBE I would buy into all of that if BW takes out all of the tank gear that has accuracy in it. But I'll bet ya that just like the 168/180 gear we get now it'll still have accuracy in it.

 

Oh and why would a DPS be able to taunt in 3.0? With the discipline system shouldn't tank disciplines be the only ones getting a taunt skill?

 

And if you're DPS and decide to taunt off the tank, you deserve to die.

 

So in short - taunts missing and tanks needing accuracy is still BS.

 

Because it has always been that way and there are times when it has and is useful for the dps to taunt like when there are adds and you want them grouped up away from the tank, the tank dies/disconnects, you don't have a tank etc. As for tanks being the only ones who 'should' be able to taunt, I say no but agree if you do the silly thing of taunting off the tank when you aren't supposed/asked to do so you should die.

 

That and other changes are dumbing down the game because you can no longer make the wrong decisions or the wrong decisions are becoming harder which is silly simply because if/when you learn to play your class and role those aren't issues.

 

It is only for the lazy player or the developer who thinks the player is too stupid to learn that these kinds of restrictions are put in place.

 

Taunts missing and tanks needing accuracy is an issue with the developers having low expectations of players and making it 'easier' to not screwup.

[DogeDandolo]

adding accuracy for tanks makes sense since they previously made changes that affect interrupts etc. interrupts and even CCs can miss on a tank, it's rare but it happens. getting 100% accuracy should fix that.

 

while i find taunt ability to be helpful on a dps in pve, i must agree it should be tank only ability. why should dps get 1 free 'utility' ability? same goes for guard, it should be available only for tank discipline, not based on stance/cell. if i recall there was a bug where dps could guard even in dps stance.

 

also, what's the point of stances, cells? if you pick a tank discipline you surely won't play without tank stance/cell and i believe it goes similar for dps. each discipline is meant for 1 specific stance/cell so simply remove stances/cells and add bonuses to discipline itself.

 

 

Having stances and additional utility gives you much more flexibility. Having the healer / tank stance on your bar means you can quickly switch to that role when needed. You'll be less effective than a properly-specced and equipped healer or tank, but a few offheals in CSC or a few seconds of holding aggro in Soresu until the tank has been rezzed can prevent a wipe. Not to mention all the DPSers who come into flashpoints as tanks! Assuming you'll still need the Field Respec perk in 3.0 to switch disciplines, switching stances will let them at least fulfil the basics of their role.

[frennky]

i understand that, but i'd rather switch more flexibility for less bugs and less class balancing patches. i'm thinking here more from dev perspective.

 

to be honest situations where dps need to help a tank/heal don't happen too often since it's never a part of tactics, it's just a recovery which suggest problem is with team's tactics or experience.

[Suromir]

I'd hardly say they "hate" tanks...but taunts "missing" is pretty goddamn stupid...gameplay mechanic or not.

 

it makes no sense...at all.

[Csillagkari]

So us tanks have been QQ at the complete lack of respect BW has for us. Much (but not all) of it centers around their idea that we need to stack accuracy. Some state that higher accuracy makes for more damage which makes it easier to hold aggro but those of us that are ops battering rams know that ACC is just a wasted stat. So what is BW's solution?

 

"Requiring" accuracy because taunts can now miss in 3.0. Seriously? Taunts missing? Why in the name of god is that a solution? In some fights, a missed taunt may be equal to a wipe. Why make things harder on us and requiring us to stack stats we don't need. For comparison, look at a class that gets all the love - healers. Healers NEVER take accuracy because heals NEVER miss. You talk about fairness and balance and game play, then how about evening out the playing field and making heals miss once in a while. Or an even better solution, why not actually appreciate those of us that take on the specialized roles and don't make us stack worthless stats.

 

Like a tank you would have a great issue, if healers would miss... : )

It would take around 700k repair for you to handle an OP : P

[Loc_n_lol]

Having stances and additional utility gives you much more flexibility. Having the healer / tank stance on your bar means you can quickly switch to that role when needed. You'll be less effective than a properly-specced and equipped healer or tank, but a few offheals in CSC or a few seconds of holding aggro in Soresu until the tank has been rezzed can prevent a wipe. Not to mention all the DPSers who come into flashpoints as tanks! Assuming you'll still need the Field Respec perk in 3.0 to switch disciplines, switching stances will let them at least fulfil the basics of their role.

 

There s only one class with a "healing stance", and it's usefulness is going to become questionable moving into 3.0 as the default attack can no longer be used as a heal, it is now a separate ability that can be used regardless of stance. Switching from one dps stance to another is nonsense. So all that remains is switching from the dps to the tank stance, which gives a pretty massive buff to survivability and allows off-tanking.

Overall, with the exception of the tank stance, I don't think stances really bring anything to the table. They might as well be passive, or each discipline having access only to the one it needs.

[Mallorik]

I don't have a problem with requiring tanks to use accuracy, it makes for more interesting character building. But allowing taunts to miss is a serious mistake.

[BuriDogshin]

So us tanks have been QQ at the complete lack of respect BW has for us.

 

No, "us tanks" have not. Some players who play tanks may be QQing, but most are not.

[Selenial]

And MAYBE I would buy into all of that if BW takes out all of the tank gear that has accuracy in it. But I'll bet ya that just like the 168/180 gear we get now it'll still have accuracy in it.

 

Oh and why would a DPS be able to taunt in 3.0? With the discipline system shouldn't tank disciplines be the only ones getting a taunt skill?

 

And if you're DPS and decide to taunt off the tank, you deserve to die.

 

So in short - taunts missing and tanks needing accuracy is still BS.

Sure, when DPS stop getting High endurance gear.

You want to buy **** with comms you get **** enhancements.

 

And if you think there's no situation where a dps should off taunt you are beyond help...

[Tsillah]

And MAYBE I would buy into all of that if BW takes out all of the tank gear that has accuracy in it. But I'll bet ya that just like the 168/180 gear we get now it'll still have accuracy in it.

 

Oh and why would a DPS be able to taunt in 3.0? With the discipline system shouldn't tank disciplines be the only ones getting a taunt skill?

 

And if you're DPS and decide to taunt off the tank, you deserve to die.

 

So in short - taunts missing and tanks needing accuracy is still BS.

 

Some classes like Juggernauts can be tank spec or dps spec. The dps spec can use the single taunt to be an off tank. There is nothing strange about the idea of an off tank. Arguably you could choose to take that out of the DPS range but also in PvE it's nice for certain content to have an off tank. Think of the Brontes fight in HM where juggernauts can taunt an orb and take the hit for someone else.

 

Secondly, apparently this has been abused in pvp so therefore accurracy will be needed for dps to stack if they want to use it without failing.

 

Third, a tank gets a 10% boost on accuracy and therefore doesn't need to stack accuracy at all

 

Fourth, commendation gear has always been poorly itemized. All of that gear has poor stats or distribution. This is just part of gearing up. I do however wonder why the ops loot gear (unassembled) has had such a weird variety of stats. I do hope that will be done better in 3.0

[FalmeseReb]

And MAYBE I would buy into all of that if BW takes out all of the tank gear that has accuracy in it. But I'll bet ya that just like the 168/180 gear we get now it'll still have accuracy in it.

 

Oh and why would a DPS be able to taunt in 3.0? With the discipline system shouldn't tank disciplines be the only ones getting a taunt skill?

 

And if you're DPS and decide to taunt off the tank, you deserve to die.

 

So in short - taunts missing and tanks needing accuracy is still BS.

 

because maybe there are more things to do in the game than just operations?

[Drudenfusz]

As a tank player I don't hate the change yet. Since I haven't played it yet to know if it really would be an issue. I think it could make the most difference in PvP, and there it will be mostly tanks who benefit form not getting taunted by other tanks (especially if the taunting player is not even a tank but a DPS in tank stance, since didn't they said that taunting in DPS disciplines will be a detaunt, or was that just about the mass taunt?). I hope they have good tank players testing it and giving BioWare useful feedback instead of this untested crying here. Edited November 16, 2014 by Drudenfusz

[wainot-keel]

Tank stances will get a 10% accuracy buff to counter that. Tanks in PvE (and most likely even in PvP) won't miss taunts unless the devs decide to increase the defenses of a boss to make it some form of mechanic.

 

I remember a yellow post saying pretty much this, that they may include bosses with extra defenses so taunt could miss. I bet we will see fights where tanks will have to choose between lowering their survivability and rolling the dice on mechanics execution. That's going to suck.