SWTOR revenue down...the causes?

[Arkerus]

This thread is comical. People are looking for the smoking gun using long winded theories and placing blame on monetization models.

 

There is a very, very simple reason SWTOR was included in a group that was down on revenue year over year per quarter: lack of content.

 

Strongholds was great content for those already subscribed but as typical with these games expansion or level content brings subs back in.

 

Revenue is down by some amount? yeah. That's not great news at all. Does it actually mean anything in the long term with a new expansion next month? meh. We'll see. I suspect revenue to bump up slightly with a new expansion.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Arkerus

[Lucyfer_Infinity]

Maybe if it was not a "story driven MMORPG" without story updates it would fare better. 3 years and no continuation of personal stories, no continuation of companion stories (some of them ended pretty much as cliffhangers), we got makeb with story writen so poorly i had to log out and check if i'm still playing swtor, thought i loged into GW2 by mistake. No new professions.

If bioware wants people to pay them whole new game worth of cash every 4 months, they better start providing something for it. Bioware fans expect good story, Star Wars fans expect oportunity to live in ever changing and expanding star wars universe. Get to work Bioware

[ivanhedgehog]

Revenue IMO would be down when the team get lazy and complacent and keep churning out packs filled with reskinned crap. There's no way I'm paying extra RL cash for what's been in the last dozen or so packs.

 

If others want to, fine, I'll have a look at the GTN and the occasional item that's on there I'll buy for creds. The most recent pack, the only item I was remotely interested in was the feign death regen tool... an entire pack and one item? The armour sucks, if it was legacy bound it might have more appeal but it's not so again, GTN and buy for creds for the ONE character that might suit it.

 

Yeah, BW will get my sub because I enjoy the completely unrestricted game... however I won't shed any tears if the udders on their little cash cow are running dry.

 

what turned me off of packs was the variable/obscene rarities they put on anything that looks decent. If Bob the wonder intern fingerpaints another cyber outfit, that will be normal rarity. if anything looks good or is cool it will drop at .00001% chance. I am not going to play at those kind of odds.

[Liamo]

How about the fact that near this period it was established this game is "fan fiction" according to Lucasfilm now? I know it's not 100% clear if this is canon or not, but I know quite a few people that stopped playing because they weren't going to contribute to "fanfiction."

[Arkerus]

How about the fact that near this period it was established this game is "fan fiction" according to Lucasfilm now? I know it's not 100% clear if this is canon or not, but I know quite a few people that stopped playing because they weren't going to contribute to "fanfiction."

 

The 3 people who quit because they were emotionally hurt a game 3000 years before the movie timeline isn't considered official canon? (...and it would be almost silly to consider it was since the technology in this timeline looks exactly like movie star wars...)

 

Yeah, they can leave. They were obsessed and that's a bigger issue they should deal with personally.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Arkerus

[Max_Killjoy]

How about the fact that near this period it was established this game is "fan fiction" according to Lucasfilm now? I know it's not 100% clear if this is canon or not, but I know quite a few people that stopped playing because they weren't going to contribute to "fanfiction."

 

You'll have to point me to where this "fanfiction" thing is more than an over-reaction to the "Legends" status, which is in no rational reading the same as "fanfiction".

[tdmaha]

 

There was a time when you bought a game, and it was paid for, and you played it, without having to pay a rental fee. With SWTOR, we're paying for the game and for expansions AND we're paying rent, so EA is already double-dipping. Triple-dipping is where many of us would draw the line.

 

MMORPGs have always had subscriptions. There was NEVER a time when you bought an mmo and you played it without a sub. Even now they all have a sub model. Its not a rental fee, its supposed to cover their infrastructure and added content. Rent? What a ridiculous comment...Cmon man you are better then that.

 

If you RENT a house and stop paying you get kicked out and if you leave all your crap it gets thrown away.

 

In a sub based mmo. If you stop paying you loose access, but all your stuff is still there, all your progress is saved the game continues to grow thanks to those that still sub.

 

Rent lol what a joke...I guess you are one of those entitlement kids who think expansions and added content are created out thin air for free and should be handed to you for free hmm?

[Jandi]

Maybe if it was not a "story driven MMORPG" without story updates it would fare better. 3 years and no continuation of personal stories, no continuation of companion stories (some of them ended pretty much as cliffhangers),

 

This is a major point for a lot of folks. We were sold a "BioWare" MMO and instead got a joke story-wise. In fact, we've gotten everything EXCEPT story content. Maybe shadow of a dead horse expansion will remedy the situation, maybe not.

[Lotharofxev]

In a sub based mmo. If you stop paying you loose access, but all your stuff is still there, all your progress is saved the game continues to grow thanks to those that still sub.

 

You're kidding right?

 

First, you completely ignore (to use your example) the SQUATTERS. Second, it's the renters who foot the bill for the majority of improvements above and beyond the rent they already pay.

 

If, (still using your example) the renters "loose (sic) access", when they stop paying rent, how do you explain, much less justify those who live here for free - FOR EVER.

[Jeweledleah]

MMORPGs have always had subscriptions. There was NEVER a time when you bought an mmo and you played it without a sub. Even now they all have a sub model. Its not a rental fee, its supposed to cover their infrastructure and added content. Rent? What a ridiculous comment...Cmon man you are better then that.

 

If you RENT a house and stop paying you get kicked out and if you leave all your crap it gets thrown away.

 

In a sub based mmo. If you stop paying you loose access, but all your stuff is still there, all your progress is saved the game continues to grow thanks to those that still sub.

 

Rent lol what a joke...I guess you are one of those entitlement kids who think expansions and added content are created out thin air for free and should be handed to you for free hmm?

 

well... I wouldn't say never. according to this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_massively_multiplayer_online_games we started getting f2p MMO's as early as dawn of millenia (specificaly maple story)

 

that said... you used to have to pay for acess hourly rather than monthly and one monthly subscription block that was offered by one game? was $120 a month

 

so no, Bioware didn't invent monthly MMO subscription. they merely followed the lead of decades of games that preceded them.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[Gomla]

It's been out for 3 years.

 

There are people that have done what they wanted to do and moved on. Some people never stick around a game for long periods and some pop back but don't stay for long (like me).

 

The fact that, besides class story, nothing in this MMO is any different to any other MMO. The questing and the gameplay is the same old we've seen time and time again.

 

A lot of things in game are incredibly outdated. Weekly caps for example, a lot of games have done away with them completely.

 

The game as a whole has an incredibly bad reputation amongst a few gaming communities.

 

People keep expecting "the next big thing" and this wasn't it. By people I mean publishers/developers.

 

I doubt we will ever see another multi million sub game again. The one that is out came at the right time when people were wanting it.

 

There are lots of reasons why revenue is down. Personally I think those expecting SoR to bring in massive numbers and lots more revenue are incredibly naive.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Gomla

[Atlanis]

Another idea,

 

Separate the stronghold items from the packs and either make (1) them into packs themselves or (2) sell them separately on the cartel market. I know some who would buy it this way but they are unwilling to buy the packs with armor, etc in it as there have been times in the packs there is no armor they are interested in so they considered it a waste of cartel coins.

 

Just my idea.

 

Jep, same reason why I only buy a handful of the packs. I personally would rather pay 5000 CC to put a Sandcrawler in my front lawn with a 100% chance, than to use these 5000 CC to buy packs hoping for the lucky draw;-)

 

 

On the other hand, why did with thread turn into a hater thread. If I remember correctly only Subscribers can use the Forum? Why do you pay for something you hate?

 

I believe SoR moves in a good direction, they wouldn´t bring "expensive one time" experiences aka Class Story (it is only a mission but seems to be a long one) back if the game was doing very badly number wise. I think many of you will be suprised how smooth SoR and the following content will be. Unlike some certain other MMO, inbetween Addons you get "free Content" and get suprised...you remember that moment:

"Hey we have to push back Housing since it isn´t finished, but here have some slotmachines"

Community Enraged

48 hours later

"P.S.: By the way we are bringen Guildflaggships and a rudamentary Conquestsystem, which were the reason why we had to push back"

 

Another example was everybody enraging about the 25 NPC Limit, nobody said "Good Work" when they removed it alltogether in one of the recent patches. When I think of certain other "younger" MMOS I log in from time to time and afterwards go to Swtor, the experience feels much smoother.

 

It is good if you keep your expectations low or realistic. 12xp was not for everyone but nice for me to see the other class storys as I have only played my Sentinel since Beta. The price ist reasonable, it is only a 13th monthly subscription really. I hope and believe you will see more stuff you like in th 3.x patches. Even if GSH was not your cup of tea, you will have looked into it at least for a moment to secure the Boni for Conquest points (free money). I know of no guild who doesn´t strive for a flaggship (even if it is only used as a crafting hub with tier 9 gathering nodes and parked over orricon for easier daylies).

 

There could be more, but I am almost happy with how it is. I hope they will change back to releasing more Operations in more like of a six month rythm, that would make the normal Raider happy. Hardcore Raiders and Hardcore PVPlers will never be happy;-)

Edited November 10, 2014 by Atlanis

[Liamo]

You'll have to point me to where this "fanfiction" thing is more than an over-reaction to the "Legends" status, which is in no rational reading the same as "fanfiction".

It doesn't match in with the larger Star Wars Universe. It has no more relevance than if I wrote a story. It's hyperbole, to be sure, but still a lot of people playing this game are playing this for the Star Wars name. We could play in the Star Wars universe.

That's kind of gone, although this still doesn't officially have the "Legends" title to it and all going forward is NOT supposed to be Legends.

[Liamo]

The 3 people who quit because they were emotionally hurt a game 3000 years before the movie timeline isn't considered official canon? (...and it would be almost silly to consider it was since the technology in this timeline looks exactly like movie star wars...)

 

Yeah, they can leave. They were obsessed and that's a bigger issue they should deal with personally.

 

No. They actually were Star Wars fans and had respect for the EU that has been around longer than a majority of the movies.

As for the technology being the same etc..there are a lot of explanations for that, although within the small context of just the movies/TV shows, there really aren't any can be used.

[Applejacxs]

1. I think this a content issue more than anything. Out side a few things I would say this year has been OK to below average as far as in game content goes. Which is why I have an issue with the nerf coming up. It feels like there nerfing us to keep old content relevant instead of making new contact to challenge us. Hopefully its just a first step and we can expect bigger things after 3.0 hits.

 

 

 

2..As far lessing f2p/preferred restriction i would just raise there lvl cap to 55 and and always have it 5 behind subs. The other restrictions are fine. I had no issues with those other then the operations lock out. before I subbed And ultimately lead me to become a sub as I didn't want to be 5 lvls behind all my friends lol

[DarthOvertone]

BW is focused, more than ever, on making SWTOR casual-friendly. So the game attracts casual players. Those casual players treat the game with a not so surprisingly casual attitude. They do not sub and they do not spend money. These people enjoy the game in their own way and accept it for what it is without investing in it further.

 

This year BW took a colossal dump on its hardcore crowds, both PvE and PvP. While the percentage of those players may be smaller, those are the consumers that take the game seriously, play it frequently, and spend money on the game.

 

I think that's the main cause, and interestingly enough, it was the admitted cause for SWTOR's rapid descent into F2P in year one. For some reason, EA/BW have had a jones for the casual crowd since the beginning. They keep trying to pitch them, market to them, and hook them. But for all of their efforts, the casual player base keeps bailing.

[LordArtemis]

BW is focused, more than ever, on making SWTOR casual-friendly. So the game attracts casual players. Those casual players treat the game with a not so surprisingly casual attitude. They do not sub and they do not spend money. These people enjoy the game in their own way and accept it for what it is without investing in it further.

 

This year BW took a colossal dump on its hardcore crowds, both PvE and PvP. While the percentage of those players may be smaller, those are the consumers that take the game seriously, play it frequently, and spend money on the game.

 

I think that's the main cause, and interestingly enough, it was the admitted cause for SWTOR's rapid descent into F2P in year one. For some reason, EA/BW have had a jones for the casual crowd since the beginning. They keep trying to pitch them, market to them, and hook them. But for all of their efforts, the casual player base keeps bailing.

 

I would only disagree in one way. The disdain the original dev team had for casual players was well apparent, and the design of the game as well as public statements supported that bias. "Appearance progression" is a perfect example of this.

 

It is this that caused the eventual fall of the game and led to the necessity of the F2P hybrid system IMO.

[DarthOvertone]

I would only disagree in one way. The disdain the original dev team had for casual players was well apparent, and the design of the game as well as public statements supported that bias. "Appearance progression" is a perfect example of this.

 

From what I remember, EA's first quarterly on SWTOR claimed a lack of ability for the game to retain the casual player base as the cause for so much of the initial subscriber churn after release. Don't ask me to go dig that up though. heh

[LordArtemis]

From what I remember, EA's first quarterly on SWTOR claimed a lack of ability for the game to retain the casual player base as the cause for so much of the initial subscriber churn after release. Don't ask me to go dig that up though. heh

 

Yea, I think I remember that.

[LyraineAlei]

Yea, I think I remember that.

 

I think I read that thread once. Was it one of yours, Lord Artemis?

[Max_Killjoy]

MMORPGs have always had subscriptions. There was NEVER a time when you bought an mmo and you played it without a sub. Even now they all have a sub model. Its not a rental fee, its supposed to cover their infrastructure and added content. Rent? What a ridiculous comment...Cmon man you are better then that.

 

If you RENT a house and stop paying you get kicked out and if you leave all your crap it gets thrown away.

 

In a sub based mmo. If you stop paying you loose access, but all your stuff is still there, all your progress is saved the game continues to grow thanks to those that still sub.

 

Rent lol what a joke...I guess you are one of those entitlement kids who think expansions and added content are created out thin air for free and should be handed to you for free hmm?

 

 

OK...

 

1) Did you bother to read the comments I was responding to? I was speaking specifically in the context of a hypothetical where core content would be put behind the Cartel Market paywall, ON TOP OF paying for the expansion AND paying the monthly sub. Several of us were objecting to being hit up for a third layer of payment for what's supposed to be the very core of the game.

 

2) I didn't specify MMOs, I said "games". And it is absolutely factual that there was a time when games were purchased, and that was that. There are ongoing costs of running an MMO that could justify the sub fee on top of that, so that's not the core of my objection.

 

3) A valid argument might be made that expansions should pay for themselves, which would, if one were to make said argument, remove the expansions from the discussion as to ongoing payments.

 

4) Like so many others in these forums, you need to stop being so burning eager to go into attack mode that you can't be arsed to slow down and understand what someone is actually saying -- jumping in to start thrashing a partial, superficial, or out-of-context reading of the post.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[TravelersWay]

MMORPGs have always had subscriptions. There was NEVER a time when you bought an mmo and you played it without a sub. Even now they all have a sub model. Its not a rental fee, its supposed to cover their infrastructure and added content. Rent? What a ridiculous comment...Cmon man you are better then that.

 

Actually, Free to Play MMOs have been around as long as the subscription based MMOs. It is only because of Blizzard, SOE, and Origin Systems that the sub based model gained the traction that it did back in the early years. However, many of those Free MMOs are still running today.

[BadGameIsBad]

There's only so much you can milk your customers until they take their money somewhere else.

 

Look, GSF added next to nothing to the game, Strongholds added next to nothing to the game, capital ships added next to nothing to the game, conquest is just a massive time sink and nothing more. They are little things that add to the whole, sure but to those who've been around, it's just not enough to keep people intersted. Minigames do NOT substitute content and this game hasn't had new content for far too long. They said they want to do regular small updates instead of big ones? Great, fantastic. However, they are giving us irregular tiny content addons with absurd waiting times for ANYONE to stay interested. Tally up hour-wise how much *new* content they've added in the past year? Nightmare modes do not count, it's the same exact **** with bigger numbers and nothing else.

 

I'd say less than 10h worth of things to do. Doesn't help that Makeb was such a monumental failure, I don't know anyone who really enjoyed the planet and you were done with it in an afternoon, that's just ridiculous, that's not an expansion, that's a patch. Other games add more and bigger content patches FOR FREE between actual expansions.

 

STAR WARS can only carry a game so far and until EA stops siphoning cash into other things, this game will never have the kind of volume it needs to really stand out.

 

So, in short, you can try to milk money from current players but it's not going to make a lick of difference when the servers are empty. You don't need to try to find some obscure statistics either, simply look at the fleet pops. They've dropped by roughly half on the 2 servers I play on compared to when the server mergers happened.

 

Well said.

[ivanhedgehog]

Actually, Free to Play MMOs have been around as long as the subscription based MMOs. It is only because of Blizzard, SOE, and Origin Systems that the sub based model gained the traction that it did back in the early years. However, many of those Free MMOs are still running today.

 

Guild wars continues to run and GW2 is doing ok.

[LyraineAlei]

Actually, Free to Play MMOs have been around as long as the subscription based MMOs. It is only because of Blizzard, SOE, and Origin Systems that the sub based model gained the traction that it did back in the early years. However, many of those Free MMOs are still running today.

 

You're right, there is Runescape.

 

Except the fun stuff of Runescape is subscription locked. But it is still *one* of the oldest F2P MMOs.