Alssaran Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I think thats a little naive. Content recycling has been the reason for so much so far, that it would absurd not to think its the reason for this too. As I said: They might even do it to keep the rare mounts on their current level. I'm not saying that Bioware hasn't done recycling in the past. All I am suggesting is that we do not need to start this argument based on recycling because we do not know at the moment. Saying they do it to make us run DP/DF again for 15 months would be the most negative ground someone could start this from. It implies a laziness from Bioware which, as far as I am concerned from the Cantina events, cannot see for the next addon. Eric commented himself that one thing they are aware of is the lack of PvE content which has taken over for the past 10 months. He said they are actively working to prevent that from happening again. Thus, we should start this argument on a more reasonable level. If we start with the recycling argument we'd imply that Bioware has no capability to learn at all. And the argument would go around in circles. I simply think we should cut Bioware some slack here before crying out that they are recycling again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 You dont agree that charging people for an expansion and then sending them back to do the exact same things they were doing before only with arbitrarily increased difficulty is somewhat lame? I keep reading about minimum or recommended rating for level 60: 180 or 186. So, if you're already in at least 180 you're probably ready to start grinding for 192/198. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) You know that they are propably doing this to prevent people from getting the Nightmare mounts/rewards for free when 3.0 hits, right? Not to force us to go back to those Ops every single week. We'll get new FP's and Ops right after release... That's the reason I support this. Many people earned those mounts and rewards through dedicated raiding and constant trying. They deserve them to stay rare. Not be free stuff post 3.0. That's what has killed most "Ah!" moments in WoW. The rewards you earned back in the WotLK and BC days were worth less because everyone was able to get them for free and alone by themselves. LoL -- this reminds me of the guys who played collectable miniature games at the local gaming store, who tried to have a player banned from all official events from using a "reward" mini that he bought on eBay (instead of winning), and when the local store wouldn't support them, they tried to have the store's official venue status revoked. You dont agree that charging people for an expansion and then sending them back to do the exact same things they were doing before only with arbitrarily increased difficulty is somewhat lame? Personally, I think it's lame. You say that like it's a bad thing. I want more challenge. Advanced class: Shadow Spec: KC Gear: Mostly 156 with 146 4-piece set bonus, some 162 pieces, Veracity implants/earpiece, level 55 shield amp relic Makeb: yawn fest CZ: yawn fest Oricon: yawn fest What do you think will happen when I get better gear in 3.0? I still remember the time I had to use healer companion to complete Area 2+ on Section X. I'm on CZ and Oricon for the credits and whatnot, NOT the "challenge". The last thing I need is that same content magically getting more grindy "because challenge". Edited November 2, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I agree. Sadly the general rule is changes are made, players are confused by what and why so in response the development team promise more communication then go silent. After two years with often promises of greater communication we are still as in the dark as ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I'm on CZ and Oricon for the credits and whatnot, NOT the "challenge". The last thing I need is that same content magically getting more grindy "because challenge". Oh give me a break! CZ takes what 5-7 min to do the dailies? You are complaining because it MIGHT take you 7-10 minutes to do the dailies when 3.0 releases, but once you hit 60 you are back to 5-7 min? Cmon man you can do better then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoop Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 You dont agree that charging people for an expansion and then sending them back to do the exact same things they were doing before only with arbitrarily increased difficulty is somewhat lame? if when the new content drops and you choose to go back to say a slighter harder makeb, vs say yavin 4 then yea thats lame. I would think most people would not bother going back to grind the old stuff when the new stuff is out so then its alot less a problem. its only the old stuff slightly harder until you level up, then its becomes a non issue rather fast if it isn't allready Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Oh give me a break! CZ takes what 5-7 min to do the dailies? You are complaining because it MIGHT take you 7-10 minutes to do the dailies when 3.0 releases, but once you hit 60 you are back to 5-7 min? Cmon man you can do better then that. Ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Ironic. Oh didn't pay attention who I was replying to. Correction that is the best you can do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoop Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Oh give me a break! CZ takes what 5-7 min to do the dailies? You are complaining because it MIGHT take you 7-10 minutes to do the dailies when 3.0 releases, but once you hit 60 you are back to 5-7 min? Cmon man you can do better then that. if they nerf my deeps im out of here bro, big numbers are all that matter if i have to use 1 more global to kill a mob i'm telling mom on bioware, it's just not fair, QQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 if they nerf my deeps im out of here bro, big numbers are all that matter if i have to use 1 more global to kill a mob i'm telling mom on bioware, it's just not fair, QQ I suppose it's too much to ask you to respond to things that people have actually said, instead of things you make up because they're easier for you to respond to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Well, this is more of a thread to discuss the information release with respect to the upcoming ability changes and the discipline system. One could certainly argue that more information, or more precise information to be exact, would not make a difference, but I tend to think that a void of information breeds speculation. And speculation on this matter is in the wilds IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Advent Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 OP's got a valid point. I'm not reassured by all of the "look at WoW" posts because Blizzard royally screwed the pooch on their squish and BioWare's workload for this expansion relative to their developer team size is no more accommodating to hammering out the details than Blizzard's was with the new WoW pack. When you have so many new features to test and tweak in addition to something like a stat squish it's only reasonable to expect things will be overlooked that make the implementation at launch frustrating. Also it's silly to assert that MMORPG company developers always necessarily understand their own games better than individual players do. Theorycrafters have proven they can understand a game inside out better than devs plenty of times for one thing. I still remember all of the times when George Zoeller, the original combat dev, tried to dismiss mathematical proofs from theorycrafters about the weaknesses and imbalances of the classes with characteristic Rhinelander arrogance only to have the number geeks on the forums validated every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 The only thing Bioware needs to do about these DPS drop concerns is to ignore them and not cave in to forum complaints. Perhaps they could actually address the issues some of the players have and go into more details. Communicate the changes and not leave it to speculation, give us some numbers so we know what is going to happen come 3.0? It's not good enough to simply say "we're bringing DPS back to where we want it" (read: nerf) and then just leave it wide open to speculation. That isn't asking much considering the amount of time and money players have invested into this game. Players have been asking for better communication from the developers for as long as I can remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraineAlei Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 BTW Artemis, I was going to make a post on the SWTOR Drinking game thread. Everytime LordArtemis says "IMO", take a shot. A) Thank you for the thought to the drinking game. B) At least Artemis admits to saying his/her opinion instead of claiming it to be fact, like many do. (Not saying you do, just speaking in general) And last, C) I think most of us here are fully admitting that complainers are going to complain. And I agree with your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 On the other hand, it seems very easy for some posters to condescending wave their hand and dismiss every concern, objection, or complaint from every player, no matter how rationally and constructively presenting, as "complainers gonna complain", to lump the legitimate issues in with the freakouts... ...until it's something that bothers them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarrinMarshall Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Nothing needs to be done. This isn't going to be as big an issue people think it is. Reno, I've always counted you as one of the 5 dedicated Bioware apologists but you really are giving Infernixx a run for his money and while I admire your dedication, your missing the point of what they are doing entirely. By causing said changes, they are deliberately trying to drag out the relevance of older content by squishing everyone's DPS..... example: to run DF lets say, for it to be faceroll time you need peeps min/maxed in 186 gear at level 55..... to do the same thing post 3.0 your going to need lvl 60 peeps in min/maxed 196? gear because the awful truth is Bioware just doesn't have the manpower/resources or the go ahead from EA to develop quality upper level content that the player base really wants. Which is why we get mini-game things like GSF, Strongholds and what not that require NO voice acting, NO companion interactions, NO individual class story because BW either can't or won't expand those areas. And no generic quests like Makeb that are the same for every class on either side are not what peeps are wanting.... they want the individual stories... you know like the ones we leveled up with? Not, run Makeb 1 time per faction and you pretty much seen it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pquadro Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I think they have been quite decent in communicating and demoing little aspects too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Reno, I've always counted you as one of the 5 dedicated Bioware apologists but you really are giving Infernixx a run for his money and while I admire your dedication, your missing the point of what they are doing entirely. By causing said changes, they are deliberately trying to drag out the relevance of older content by squishing everyone's DPS..... example: to run DF lets say, for it to be faceroll time you need peeps min/maxed in 186 gear at level 55..... to do the same thing post 3.0 your going to need lvl 60 peeps in min/maxed 196? gear because the awful truth is Bioware just doesn't have the manpower/resources or the go ahead from EA to develop quality upper level content that the player base really wants. Which is why we get mini-game things like GSF, Strongholds and what not that require NO voice acting, NO companion interactions, NO individual class story because BW either can't or won't expand those areas. And no generic quests like Makeb that are the same for every class on either side are not what peeps are wanting.... they want the individual stories... you know like the ones we leveled up with? Not, run Makeb 1 time per faction and you pretty much seen it all. If you want your opinion taken seriously, leave out the personal attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) If you want your opinion taken seriously, leave out the personal attacks. That bites both ways -- read some of the posts by people on "your side" of the argument. The latest canard they're riding is the "entitlement" meme, as worn out as that thing is at this point. Edited November 3, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 That bites both ways -- read some of the posts by people on "your side" of the argument. The latest canard they're riding is the "entitlement" meme, as worn out as that thing is at this point. I'm not on anyone's side except my own and if he wants to have a serious discussion, he can do without the personal attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I'm not on anyone's side except my own and if he wants to have a serious discussion, he can do without the personal attacks. Thus the quotation marks -- I agree that the people leaning towards one general stance or the other on these changes shouldn't be lumped together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pquadro Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Thus the quotation marks -- I agree that the people leaning towards one general stance or the other on these changes shouldn't be lumped together. In the end, nothing will matter. Everything has to change for everything to remain the same Raiders will raid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 BTW Artemis, I was going to make a post on the SWTOR Drinking game thread. Everytime LordArtemis says "IMO", take a shot. I'm not sure there is enough booze in the world for that condition Fujeo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I have a better idea ----> Stop complaining about every change they make and stop pretending that individual players know better then an MMO company working to please and entertain 1million+ players. The devs for this game have made numerous mistakes - they aren't benign omniscients. And they've misinformed, lied and swept things under the rug several times. I had a long post but edited it - I'm not angry yet and don't want to rip people apart, I just want more info and a reconsideration on the decision to open up the expansion with a blanket nerf to dps. I can only say that will kill pvp if it isn't accompanied by a broad array of other changes (and the indication they've given is that they -aren't- doing that). Combined with a very narrow testing window I am very worried that there will be a big problem. Not a disaster like the bolster release was, perhaps, but something that would disgust me (and those like me) to no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 ..which is why I think it would be a good idea for them to give more specifics. Right now people are grabbing the crumbs and running with it. I personally think there is more to it, and folks will likely find they overreacted...but that would require more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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