Silko Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 When will people understand that this change isn't a change??? The combat team is changing the math behind tanking and taunts. The actuall effect will stay the same. Nothing changes. Nothing at all for PvE. And for PvP only time it will matter is against a Sin with Shroud up, a Pyrotech with Diversion Chaff Flare up. When will people learn to read dulfy and see that there will be Op Bosses that will reduce the acc of the total raid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 When will people learn to read dulfy and see that there will be Op Bosses that will reduce the acc of the total raid? Eh??? I was there.. They said they had the power to do it, not that they would do it. And you seriously think a boss who would have a higher defense and resist chance would hit as hard as other boss??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silko Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Eh??? I was there.. They said they had the power to do it, not that they would do it. And you seriously think a boss who would have a higher defense and resist chance would hit as hard as other boss??? Seeing as they are doing this crap AGAIN after the tanking community threw a fit over it the first time, yes. Edited October 31, 2014 by Silko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silko Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Eh??? I was there.. They said they had the power to do it, not that they would do it. And you seriously think a boss who would have a higher defense and resist chance would hit as hard as other boss??? Evidence that they could/would do this: Interrupts could miss for a short time when DF was introduced. Seeing as missing the interrupt on a corrupter during the Draxus fight in HM/NiM could/would wipe the raid, why wouldn't they make a boss that has a forced tank swap at the same time have a chance to dodge a taunt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Seeing as they are doing this crap AGAIN after the tanking community threw a fit over it the first time, yes. I think you should think some more about the differance between 2.0 and 3.0... Then come back with knowledge of the two systems. In 2.0, EVERY single bosses had 10% resist chance. EVERY tank had 100% F/T accuracy. Which means taunts were hiting 90% of the time and missing the remaining 10%. In 3.0, EVERY bosses but specially intended bosses are going to have 10% resist chance. On the other hand, EVERY tank will have 110% F/T accuracy. So taunts will never miss if the boss isn't made with a higher resist chance in mind (which would affect much more than just ank thus would need much more thought than it appears). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Evidence that they could/would do this: Interrupts could miss for a short time when DF was introduced. Seeing as missing the interrupt on a corrupter during the Draxus fight in HM/NiM could/would wipe the raid, why wouldn't they make a boss that has a forced tank swap at the same time have a chance to dodge a taunt? Fair point. Isn't our job as player to tell devs when they are mixing mechanics that shouldn't be mixed???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silko Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) I think you should think some more about the differance between 2.0 and 3.0... Then come back with knowledge of the two systems. In 2.0, EVERY single bosses had 10% resist chance. EVERY tank had 100% F/T accuracy. Which means taunts were hiting 90% of the time and missing the remaining 10%. In 3.0, EVERY bosses but specially intended bosses are going to have 10% resist chance. On the other hand, EVERY tank will have 110% F/T accuracy. So taunts will never miss if the boss isn't made with a higher resist chance in mind (which would affect much more than just ank thus would need much more thought than it appears). See the issue here is TAUNTS ARE NOT FORCE/TECH abilities! They are "active" abilities. Meaning they do NOT receive bonuses from Force/Tech. Here is a screenshot proving it. So unless they intend to also change the type of ability taunts are, giving tank stances a acc increase does nothing. Perhaps you should come back with knowledge of your abilities..... Edited October 31, 2014 by Silko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadsamunny Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Fair point. Isn't our job as player to tell devs when they are mixing mechanics that shouldn't be mixed???? Why should we assume there WON'T be a couple of raids that have accuracy debuffs? Remember back when ICC came out in Lich King? The Dodge debuff, Chill of the Throne? I would not at all be surprised to see something like that in the SoR Operations. "Off balance": Accuracy reduced by 10%. Something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silko Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Fair point. Isn't our job as player to tell devs when they are mixing mechanics that shouldn't be mixed???? Yep, just like it is our job as players to tell devs when they are doing something that the community already said NO and is over all a terrible idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) See the issue here is TAUNTS ARE NOT FORCE/TECH abilities! They are "active" abilities. Meaning they do NOT receive bonuses from Force/Tech. Here is a screenshot proving it. So unless they intend to also change the type of ability taunts are, giving tank stances a acc increase does nothing. Perhaps you should come back with knowledge of your abilities..... I don't know. But the actual description says : This effect cannot be resisted. 'Resisted' is the term used for parry/dodge for Force/Tech moves. So I assume it would obey to the same laws as any F/T as interrupts currently does and will keep doing. EDIT : Knowing the type they were before 2.0 would actually help resolve this point. Yep, just like it is our job as players to tell devs when they are doing something that the community already said NO and is over all a terrible idea. As I said, this isn't the same thing as 2.0. The difference is simply in the tank stance giving free accuracy to tanks. Edited October 31, 2014 by Ryuku-sama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silko Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) 'Resisted' is the term used for parry/dodge for Force/Tech moves. So I assume it would obey to the same laws as any F/T as interrupts currently does and will keep doing. Well good thing Interrupts don't miss anymore as they are also an active ability not a F/T ability and the devs had to change it to a non missing ability as people got pissed off having to deal with missed interrupts during the 2nd fight of DF in NiM. None of this answers the question of, why are devs doing things the players already said they do not like? Players already stated they do not want to have missing interrupts and taunts. So it doesn't matter if you give tanks so much acc that the chance of missing is .00000000001%. That is still a chance of a taunt missing and wiping the group despite the fact that the tank was doing their job correctly in the first place. Edited October 31, 2014 by Silko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levram Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Evidence that they could/would do this: Interrupts could miss for a short time when DF was introduced. Well good thing Interrupts don't miss anymore as they are also an active ability not a F/T ability and the devs had to change it to a non missing ability as people got pissed off having to deal with missed interrupts during the 2nd fight of DF in NiM. None of this answers the question of, why are devs doing things the players already said they do not like? Players already stated they do not want to have missing interrupts and taunts. Do you run nightmare Dread Fortress and Dread Palace? These "facts" you're stating are not correct. Nothing was ever changed in nightmare Dread Fortress in terms of the possibility of an interrupt missing. Any player with less than 100% melee / ranged accuracy has the possibility of missing an interrupt. This has never changed from the day that nightmare Dread Fortress was released. A healer who is assigned an interrupt in nightmare Draxus and who has 93% melee / ranged accuracy misses their interrupt 7% of the time. Nightmare progression guilds compensated for this mechanic by having players use an accuracy adrenal immediately before they have to perform a critical interrupt if they have less than 100% melee / ranged accuracy. It is a very simple solution to the mechanic. Edited October 31, 2014 by Levram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Well good thing Interrupts don't miss anymore as they are also an active ability not a F/T ability and the devs had to change it to a non missing ability as people got pissed off having to deal with missed interrupts during the 2nd fight of DF in NiM. None of this answers the question of, why are devs doing things the players already said they do not like? Players already stated they do not want to have missing interrupts and taunts. So it doesn't matter if you give tanks so much acc that the chance of missing is .00000000001%. That is still a chance of a taunt missing and wiping the group despite the fact that the tank was doing their job correctly in the first place. I may be wrong, but I thought only tanks and healers could miss their interrupt. If I'm wrong feel free to tell me. But if I'm right, it just make the 10% accuracy buff for tank that much more useful. And for healers. That's kinda a big problem. Guess we will have to see the stats and all in 3.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dras_Keto Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Q: Taunts can now miss on Operation bosses? A: Dependent on the operation boss, the system now allow this capacity and some bosses can have buffs that have extra defense to force players to gear up accuracy. This is what scares me. We allocate enough of our stat budget to cap out accuracy .... and then "Lol, nope, you have to rip out enhancements just for this fight." Bioware has decided to copy wow pretty much to the letter so far, why couldnt they have just gotten rid of accuracy mechanic altogether instead of making it even more of a pain in the ***? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Fred Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Bioware has decided to copy wow pretty much to the letter so far, why couldnt they have just gotten rid of accuracy mechanic altogether instead of making it even more of a pain in the ***? I don't think anyone would miss it tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricSevGirl Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Dumb of you.. Everyone in wzs roll at at least 101% F/T accuracy, normally 104% talented. Some even get to 105% if they use a lot of M/R. Learn your stat before talking dumb. This change doesn't only affect PvPers....remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orizuru Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I didn't like the idea at first, but this sort of adds a new layer of complexity to tank gearing. Tanks now have to worry about stacking Accuracy on their equipment to make sure their attacks, and most importantly, their taunts, land reliably without the chance of a whiff. Accuracy used to be a stat that a tank could just ignore altogether and mod their gear in favor of more mitigation. Now, tanks will need to think twice about their gear and give some consideration to the Accuracy stat. I had a similar reaction on my first reading of that change. On my second reading though, I noticed that they plan to give tanks a 10% ACC bonus just for being a tank, so they shouldn't need any ACC at all after this change. In fact, now they will bit at 100% ACC all the time, so even basic attacks that could miss 2-5% of the time currently will have a 100% chance to hit all the time after the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necroscop Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 People forgetting about one thing BW tend to brake stuff and if in one patch they brake something we can be for week or longer without tanks been able to taunt. Something as important as taunt should never be touch. There should be not even slight chance of taunt missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necroscop Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I had a similar reaction on my first reading of that change. On my second reading though, I noticed that they plan to give tanks a 10% ACC bonus just for being a tank, so they shouldn't need any ACC at all after this change. In fact, now they will bit at 100% ACC all the time, so even basic attacks that could miss 2-5% of the time currently will have a 100% chance to hit all the time after the change. Do not forget that fighting boss with higher defences or with accuracy debuff tank will miss taunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 People forgetting about one thing BW tend to brake stuff and if in one patch they brake something we can be for week or longer without tanks been able to taunt. Something as important as taunt should never be touch. There should be not even slight chance of taunt missing. Well, I've heard from experts that this game doesn't even need tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Everyone here realizes that this is exactly what it was like pre-2.0 right? No one whined about it back then. It didn't ruin the game. Technically, taunts could miss if the boss had extra defense or your accuracy was lowered, but it was never a problem. This was the same every other Force/Tech attack, since bosses didn't have the 10% defense they do now. For this same reason, interrupts, stuns, etc. also never missed. With 2.0 they gave bosses the 10% defense and now tanks and healers could miss all of those, but the only thing BioWare fixed was taunts. What they're doing with this change actually reverts tanks back to pre-2.0 as far as missing is concerned. Now, go ahead and continue with your sky-is-falling rants. Edited October 31, 2014 by MillionsKNives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dras_Keto Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Well, I've heard from experts that this game doesn't even need tanks. Flashpoints dont need tanks. Level 50 stuff (for the most part) and some story mode ops bosses dont always need them either. But all of those situations rely on overgearing, overleveling, or it being possible to outskill the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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