katphoenix Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I really do feel strongly that the difficulty for CZ and Oricon is about right and should remain as it is. IMO Makebs adjustment and buff was a good idea, but I think they should leave CZ and Oricon as it is, at least until the expansion hits. part of what concerns me is that they have said that they will adjust lvl 50-55 content if the dps nerf makes it too difficult..but on the day that 3.0 hits, how long till they make any adjustments? will people look at a 1 to 2 month wait while they collect data? will any part of that content range be broken for any period of time? is any of this being tested? not doom crying, just honest questions that we probably wont get any answers to untill it goes live. which may be a mistake on BW part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Yet we see a lot of "come here and help me with this boss!" on Oricon. We don't need any reduction in difficulty. Any dps can defeat those bosses if undergeared tank (note: lower damage output) can defeat them. That's largely because of a vocal minority of players who don't bother to learn or look up the mechanics. Hell, even they don't bother me... it's occasional one that flies into a chat-rage because people offer tips on how to beat the boss instead of rushing over to group up and beat the boss for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 part of what concerns me is that they have said that they will adjust lvl 50-55 content if the dps nerf makes it too difficult..but on the day that 3.0 hits, how long till they make any adjustments? will people look at a 1 to 2 month wait while they collect data? will any part of that content range be broken for any period of time? is any of this being tested? not doom crying, just honest questions that we probably wont get any answers to untill it goes live. which may be a mistake on BW part. I think it is a valid concern, considering one could say Makeb was already 'nerfed', so you could say they are obviously open to doing so. Perhaps the adjustment will simply put it in line with it's current difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katphoenix Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I think it is a valid concern, considering one could say Makeb was already 'nerfed', so you could say they are obviously open to doing so. Perhaps the adjustment will simply put it in line with it's current difficulty. my point is that dailies are not considered challenging content..they are a time sink used to generate cash to do the challenging content. DF/DP and the 2 new ops are the challenging content. The people that will have it the worse are healers if this isnt taken care of prior to launch. Tanks may have low dps, but they can take the damage for a long time where healers can heal or do low dps, if they are healing themselves the mob isnt taking damage. Hopefully this is being looked at by the beta testers. We shall see. I would much rather a tester read this and go check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTap Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 That's largely because of a vocal minority of players who don't bother to learn or look up the mechanics. Hell, even they don't bother me... it's occasional one that flies into a chat-rage because people offer tips on how to beat the boss instead of rushing over to group up and beat the boss for them. I've seen this a few times, at that point I just ignore them, they're beyond saving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerudan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Have they explained how it will work for PvE content? I mean how are you supposed to do the old ops with level 50/55 without getting into trouble with enrage timers if you do far less damage? And will fights just take much longer in general? I don't really like this change, if they don't also reduce all the health pools. Long fights are boring and tedious specially outside of OPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levram Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) I mean how are you supposed to do the old ops with level 50/55 without getting into trouble with enrage timers if you do far less damage? Please point me to where the Developers said that players will be doing "far less damage." That is a completely made up statement regarding the 3.0 damage reduction. What they actually said was, "Level 55 guys will come down a little bit and they’ll come back up to where they’re suppose to be at Level 60." "Come down a little bit" and "far less damage" are not even in the same ballpark as comments. Besides that fact, the Developers have also now provided some of their specific DPS target levels for 3.0. 4,125 DPS for a burst spec in non-optimized 198 gear is the internal target they have set. There is a higher, undisclosed, DPS target for sustained damage specs. So unless you're a player who is currently pulling greater than 4,125 DPS, you'll have a nice high DPS ceiling to continue to work towards in 3.0. Edited November 16, 2014 by Levram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerudan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Please point me to where the Developers said that players will be doing "far less damage." That is a completely made up statement regarding the 3.0 damage reduction. What they actually said was, "Level 55 guys will come down a little bit and they’ll come back up to where they’re suppose to be at Level 60." "Come down a little bit" and "far less damage" are not even in the same ballpark as comments. Besides that fact, the Developers have also now provided some of their specific DPS target levels for 3.0. 4,125 DPS for a burst spec in non-optimized 198 gear is the internal target they have set. There is a higher, undisclosed, DPS target for sustained damage specs. So unless you're a player who is currently pulling greater than 4,125 DPS, you'll have a nice high DPS ceiling to continue to work towards in 3.0. Those are the goals for level 60 in 198 gear. I'm talking about level 55 characters in 162+ gear. If level 60 characters are supposed to do about as much damage, as well equipped level 55 now, then level 55 characters will do a lot less damage, as they do now, so they will run into problems wherever a good amount of damage is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Those are the goals for level 60 in 198 gear. I'm talking about level 55 characters in 162+ gear. If level 60 characters are supposed to do about as much damage, as well equipped level 55 now, then level 55 characters will do a lot less damage, as they do now, so they will run into problems wherever a good amount of damage is required. Tell me last time you saw a Decption Sin pulling 4.1k DPS Deception Sin have the lowest sustained of all single target specs.Last time I checked, Deception was around 3600 DPS. So Deception will be buffed quite a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Tell me last time you saw a Decption Sin pulling 4.1k DPS Deception Sin have the lowest sustained of all single target specs.Last time I checked, Deception was around 3600 DPS. So Deception will be buffed quite a bit Deception is burst dps. Madness is sustained dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Deception is burst dps. Madness is sustained dps. I agree with you on that. But devs said target DPS for Deception is 4125. They have a sustained of 4125. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerudan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I agree with you on that. But devs said target DPS for Deception is 4125. They have a sustained of 4125. FOR LEVEL 60! Is it really that difficult to understand? Even IF the lowest DPS spec gets a SLIGHT buff, you are still comparing a level 60 character in 198 rating gear to a level 55 character in 180/186 gear. I'm comparing level 55 characters in 162 before and after 3.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I agree with you on that. But devs said target DPS for Deception is 4125. They have a sustained of 4125. That would mean a lot higher number in burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 FOR LEVEL 60! Is it really that difficult to understand? Even IF the lowest DPS spec gets a SLIGHT buff, you are still comparing a level 60 character in 198 rating gear to a level 55 character in 180/186 gear. I'm comparing level 55 characters in 162 before and after 3.0. Well. Honestly, I think that would be good to see an increase in TTK. Content is already too faceroll right now. That would mean a lot higher number in burst. Yup. Probably in the 7k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Yup. Probably in the 7k. So... 4125 sustained dps for Hatred 4125 sustained dps for Deception, 7000 burst dps Edited November 16, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 So... 4125 sustained dps for Hatred 4125 sustained dps for Deception, 7000 burst dps Eh?? Where did you see 4125 for Hatred???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerudan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Well. Honestly, I think that would be good to see an increase in TTK. Content is already too faceroll right now. How would it be good, if encounter become unbeatable for the level they were designed for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Well. Honestly, I think that would be good to see an increase in TTK. Content is already too faceroll right now. How would it be good, if encounter become unbeatable for the level they were designed for? Read please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 How would it be good, if encounter become unbeatable for the level they were designed for? They already said that only content that could get too difficult is DP/DF NiM. They also said that if content gets too difficult then they have to adjust it. No, level 50 ops don't get difficult because currently they look like this at level 55: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ToFMsDj6TY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt-Snake Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) They already said that only content that could get too difficult is DP/DF NiM. They also said that if content gets too difficult then they have to adjust it. No, level 50 ops don't get difficult because currently they look like this at level 55: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ToFMsDj6TY Ev/Kp are supposed to be face rolled with current 180/186 gear, plus players are lvl 55 too, no average group is facing rolling Ec HM/nim even with 180 gear...no one is facing rolling SNV hm or nim, no one is facing rolling TFB hm or nim..unless you are a skilled group of players..which is to be expected if you are good..every time someone talk about face rolling something its always ev or KP...its never hm snv or hm tfb even hm ec lol Edited November 16, 2014 by Lt-Snake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerudan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) They already said that only content that could get too difficult is DP/DF NiM. They also said that if content gets too difficult then they have to adjust it. No, level 50 ops don't get difficult because currently they look like this at level 55: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ToFMsDj6TY And how do they look like on level 50 in the gear you are supposed to have on that level with 3.0? That you can faceroll level 50 Ops on level 55 gear is kinda normal. In WoW you can solo the old raids and it is actually good funny to solo kill the big bosses, that you wiped again and again on with a whole raid.. Blizzard even changed some of them, so you can solo them. Edited November 16, 2014 by Gerudan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Read please. maybe for you it is faceroll in full 186. but the rest of us plebians are looking at being shut out of content we have been doing for a year. GF dp/df pugs are doable right now. when they balance the game for nim farmers, will you still be able to get a successful pug df/dp? or will the end game be only for level 60? so the devs have said if it turn out they didnt get it right they will adjust df/dp. when, in 6 months? they said they would continue the changes to orbital strike and we are still waiting. they arent really good at going back and fixing things. they should be addressing it before the problem. Edited November 16, 2014 by ivanhedgehog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eanelinea Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 All I care about, is as long as I can continue to solo soloable things and face roll through those soloable things, I'm fine with it. Most times, I could give a few effs what things like parsec say about my dps/heals/tanking w/e as long as the boss or mobs die before I die or before the enrage timer hits. Although, as far as I know from my experience in MMOs, the higher level you become, the more damage you're supposed to be able to do. Not remain the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Although, as far as I know from my experience in MMOs, the higher level you become, the more damage you're supposed to be able to do. Not remain the same. So, WoW isn't MMO anymore then? That doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levram Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 GF dp/df pugs are doable right now. when they balance the game for nim farmers, will you still be able to get a successful pug df/dp? or will the end game be only for level 60? Were you able to successfully PUG DF and DP in March 2014 when most casual players did not have full 180 commendation gear? Probably. I imagine that's what it will feel like again. Highly clearable, but the group members will actually need to care about mechanics and try to do a decent rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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