ivanhedgehog Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) so you're in beta then no, but unlike you, I have reading comprehension. the devs told us their reason for this..or what they claim as their reason. Edited November 4, 2014 by ivanhedgehog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) no, but unlike you, I have reading comprehension. the devs told us their reason for this..or what they claim as their reason.the reduction has to be applied to everyone equally. gear contributes to dps, so does player skill. only top end pve players are in full 186. and only top end pve players will be in 198. if they want, as you put it, 99% of us to not be at this peak dps level, then there are 1001 ways to keep it that way. unless you have some secret information concerning content being too hard for fresh 60s? Edited November 4, 2014 by Pagy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrintoSFJ Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I am completely ok with number cut off like blizzard is doing with WoW. but i am not ok with cutting off power and making older content harder. for example currently it takes me X sec to kill a level 55 elite with full 180 rating gears, after number squish if it still takes me X sec to kill a level 55 elite when i am level 55 with 180 gears but i see lower number on my dps, it is completely fine with me but if it takes me a good 4-5 sec more on top of showing lower numbers then i am not ok with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussircaex Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I'm unclear as to where the break point is. What I *think* is the case is, we'll be doing similar damage at level 60 in 186 gear as we are at 50 in 180 gear. So we'll be doing about the same DPS in *entry level gear* as we can do now in *hardmode gear*? This is not the end of the world. There just seems to be some sort of perception that entry-level gear in a new xpak should completely trump old content. Or perhaps, is the complaint that those players who remain at 55 will be unable to complete content in the same gear. While that's unfortunate, it's not enough of a problem to be up in arms about. The playerbase is advancing to 60. Those who cannot afford to purchase the expansion are, by definition, not signing BioWare's checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 No official clarification yet? Like it or not, this is a very big issue and needs to get clarified ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharofxev Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 For Zeta Scorpi: http://www.twitch.tv/swtor/c/5401305 3 minutes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTap Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 No official clarification yet? Like it or not, this is a very big issue and needs to get clarified ASAP. What are we wanting clarified exactly? (not derogatory or anything, I'm just curious what we want clarification on). They stated the damage 'goal', they were however very vague on leveling and other non 60 things, so I think some clarification on that would be nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 the reduction has to be applied to everyone equally. gear contributes to dps, so does player skill. only top end pve players are in full 186. and only top end pve players will be in 198. if they want, as you put it, 99% of us to not be at this peak dps level, then there are 1001 ways to keep it that way. unless you have some secret information concerning content being too hard for fresh 60s? if snipers and sents are the classes that are too high, you adjust them nerfing commandos and sorcs wont fix the problem of the first 2 over achieving. there are all sorts of ways of adjusting this without kneecapping everyone. also...do not balance your game on the 150 to performing customers. you are likely to lose many of the rest. the devs cannot balance player skill...no way no how. this is a way for the devs to stretch dp/df out for another year. games that cater to the hardcore havent done all that well lately. as 60 people working on wildstar found out this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyxin Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Personally, I don't think it's bad. if you look at the overall progress of the game, what this next expansion is really is about redistributing stats, changing the skill development, and adding a new world. the level growth is really nothing more then a visual change, since the stats aren't changing much. if you took the levels completely out of the picture, left everything as it is...added a new planet...well that's what we'll have. They're taking a needed process and doing it early and fast, and doing it at a time when we are adapting to the new skill structure (sort of hiding the stat changed behind it). honestly, I think your average player may not notice a huge change, and solo play won't be impacted too much. Here's why: 1) were getting the scaling going down a bit, BUT 2) we're getting iconic (read performance increasing) class skills earlier in the curve, AND 3) were getting more flexibility in utility skills, AND 4) new abilities = more flexibility/damage/defense, etc. I think allot of people forget #3. many of the utility skills that previously were locked into talent trees, that you couldn't take before because you were spending your points in another tree, are becoming utility skills that you can take. taking too much damage as you level? pick up a defensive utility to make up for it. killing too slow? grab one of the offensive boosts. and #4 can easily be missed amidst the discussions of the raw damage changes. like they stated in an earlier feed, most of the ranged "turret" classes are getting a utility skill that allows them to cast while moving. This is limited to certain skills, but it increases a casters potential for damage (and healing btw) while staying away (a.k.a kiting) mobs. this is an overall functionality increase that isn't in the game at the moment, and adds to your capacity overall...but it doesn't calculate into raw damage numbers, so it won't show up on a comparison chart or DPS chart. It's things like this that make me think that obsessing over the "stats crunch" is something that we should hold off on until we can see (and play) the bigger picture. I don't think the solo game has much to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 if snipers and sents are the classes that are too high, you adjust them nerfing commandos and sorcs wont fix the problem of the first 2 over achieving. there are all sorts of ways of adjusting this without kneecapping everyone.they didnt say one class is overachieving, they are saying they all are. also...do not balance your game on the 150 to performing customers. you are likely to lose many of the rest. the devs cannot balance player skill...no way no how.they are lowering EVERYONE'S dmg, not the top 150. are you this dense? there will always be disparity between the top players and the bottom players. this is a way for the devs to stretch dp/df out for another year. games that cater to the hardcore havent done all that well lately. as 60 people working on wildstar found out this week.then dont play dp/df. i wont be. i dont see why you care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharofxev Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 i dont see why you care Stop being deliberately obtuse. Grow up and engage in a dialogue instead of telling people "go away". Cuz I got news for ya, enough people take your advice? Especially subscribers? This game is in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyxin Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 if snipers and sents are the classes that are too high, you adjust them nerfing commandos and sorcs wont fix the problem of the first 2 over achieving. there are all sorts of ways of adjusting this without kneecapping everyone. also...do not balance your game on the 150 to performing customers. you are likely to lose many of the rest. the devs cannot balance player skill...no way no how. this is a way for the devs to stretch dp/df out for another year. games that cater to the hardcore havent done all that well lately. as 60 people working on wildstar found out this week. Interestingly enough i just read an article on WS and the changes. i tried the game for a while...i was really looking forward to it, but after a month I stopped. there wasn't any specific thing like "it's too hardcore" as much as it simply felt lacking overall. just not enough of X and too much of Y. On the rest...yeah i was wondering if this was going to allow them to stretch out DP/DF a bit too hehe...but yet, at the same time, they are offering us a whole new planet to explore, and even adding in individual class extras (not complete storylines, but a quest thats individual to the class). I like that personally, and if they had to focus dev time on something, I'd rather see a new planet then another Op, especially when the Op's can come later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 SNip... The playerbase is advancing to 60. Those who cannot afford to purchase the expansion are, by definition, not signing BioWare's checks. Problem is, you are not really advancing to 60. It will looklike it with all the bells and whistles. You will see your level go up but really all you just did was make it back to 55. With current level 55 186 gear being nerfed when 3.0 gets here, BW plans to put level 60 198 gear in it's place so you will do roughly the same DPS as you were at 55. The new content will be similar to 55 content ( that were currently playing) since all the gear is based on 55 DPS, the old 55 content (DF/DP) as old and worn out as it is, is being kept around as an alternate way to get comm. Your going to jump through some hoops to be level 55 again given everything is being worked around that level of output and DPS. It's like the illusion of 60 but its all 55 really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 missed the entire point, the above is a demonstration of the relativity between hp and dps. let me spell it out to you again with a different example. would you rather this? pre 3.0 you do 100dps, target has 1000hp, dies in 10 seconds post 3.0 you do 200dps, target has 4000hp, dies in 20 seconds. according to you, this is something to celebrate! wow your dps is double! lol all you seem to care about is the dps number. they are concerned with the time to kill the target. if you get your wish and see fancy higher numbers, they would have just attacked TTK differently. your inability to comprehend this is astounding. They are reducing our dps so that they don't have to raise everything's health to raise the ttk which is currently too low. They as much as said that in the stream. This is not a cosmetics issue. Note that in sub 50s they are doing the opposite but who cares? Seriously: who that is posting here will still be sub 50s in anything in Dec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Good news. There will be a set of streams planned that will spell out the class changes in more detail. Whatever happened to just posting something that can be read? NO, everyone and his damn uncle has to do video crap now, making anyone interested sit through an hour of babbling and listen to some guy who doesn't know how to blow his nose or form a complete sentence just to get the same information that could be obtained through 5 minutes of reading a released statement. Edited November 5, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyxin Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Whatever happened to just posting something that can be read? NO, everyone and his damn uncle has to do video crap now, making anyone interested sit through an hour of babbling and listen to some guy who doesn't know how to blow his nose or form a complete sentence just to get the same information that could be obtained through 5 minutes of reading a released statement. I know...i find vids really irritating at times. especially a new trend I see in forums where people aren't posting a writeup in their class guide...they're posting a video where they get to show us their cool setup and ride and music and... I Don't Care about your stuff, and your things. please summarize in writing. takes an hour to get through 3-4 paragraphs of information. Although Bio isn't bad about it, and I enjoy Eric's vids....man, where's our transcripts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyxin Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Your going to jump through some hoops to be level 55 again given everything is being worked around that level of output and DPS. It's like the illusion of 60 but its all 55 really. one thing i failed to point out in my discussion of it as well (i agree with you on large part): We are also getting new skills. if you watch the twitch on the combat changes, you'll notice at the very end he points out the "new" skill for that discipline tree he was testing. so new lvl 60 skills as well. so, new planet, new quests (some are class specific), new "looking" gear, and new skillz! Of course...with the discipline changes, it will probably feel like we have less skills, since were picking less overall (80% of them are handed to us). At least we still have to buy the upgrades from the vendor. My holo statues will not go to waste! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) one thing i failed to point out in my discussion of it as well (i agree with you on large part): We are also getting new skills. if you watch the twitch on the combat changes, you'll notice at the very end he points out the "new" skill for that discipline tree he was testing. so new lvl 60 skills as well. so, new planet, new quests (some are class specific), new "looking" gear, and new skillz! Of course...with the discipline changes, it will probably feel like we have less skills, since were picking less overall (80% of them are handed to us). At least we still have to buy the upgrades from the vendor. My holo statues will not go to waste! While true, you don't need this facade of levleing to 60 to be 55 up to accomplish any of that. Story planets could be released, new gear made, new quests and with the changes to the talent trees, new skills could be added without having created this illusion of leveling. Might as well really keep everyone at 55 given thats about all you'll be. Edited November 5, 2014 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt-Snake Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 maybe we'll stay at 60 from here on out, and 4.0 will just be some new system to gain new abilities to upgrade too:rolleyes:.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) We are also getting new skills. if you watch the twitch on the combat changes, you'll notice at the very end he points out the "new" skill for that discipline tree he was testing. so new lvl 60 skills as well. so, new planet, new quests (some are class specific), new "looking" gear, and new skillz! Last skill is at level 57 if I remember correctly. It's basically just a "reskin" of current skill in your rotation. It's supposed to replace one of your rotational skill. It will have different animation and it's supposed to do a little more damage than other version. At level 60 you get your last Utility point or whatever those are called. Might as well really keep everyone at 55 given thats about all you'll be. And this would prevent stat squish, exactly how? Edited November 5, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTap Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 maybe we'll stay at 60 from here on out, and 4.0 will just be some new system to gain new abilities to upgrade too:rolleyes:.. Can you feel the character progression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Might as well really keep everyone at 55 given thats about all you'll be.3.0 comes whether you level or not. stay at 55 and we'll compare our dmg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) maybe we'll stay at 60 from here on out, and 4.0 will just be some new system to gain new abilities to upgrade too:rolleyes:.. New Class Chapters, a New Class and / or New Disciplines, and Alternate Advancement mechanics for 4.0 would be fairly awesome actually... no level cap increase needed for that. Edited November 5, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) they didnt say one class is overachieving, they are saying they all are. they said a few...that does NOT mean all even in your little world they are lowering EVERYONE'S dmg, not the top 150. are you this dense? there will always be disparity between the top players and the bottom players. if a few at the top were exceeding maximums under specific circumstances, you put limits on them, you dont nerf everyone across the board. if you balance the game based on the few at the top, soon those few will be the customers you have left. then dont play dp/df. i wont be. i dont see why you care I care because their "fix" will affect everyone, not just the few they were targeting. this could all be resolved by some actual responses from the devs. their piss poor communication skills are what are driving this discussion. Edited November 5, 2014 by ivanhedgehog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 if a few at the top were exceeding maximums under specific circumstances, you put limits on them, you dont nerf everyone across the board. if you balance the game based on the few at the top, soon those few will be the customers you have left. That would be true if you couldn't reach the level of someone in the top x of the spec you're playing. Unfortunately for your point and fortunately for all of us wanting to play our specs at their full potential, we can. With enough practice, a brain and some understanding of this game, anyone can become a top tier player in his specs. Thus, balancing around those who got there is a good choice. They shouldn't balance around the lowest common denominator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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