Damage Dropping In 3.0

[BuriDogshin]

The best part is that I won't get kicked from raids anymore for having too much dps

Oh, is that what they told you was the reason? How diplomatic of them.

[Quraswren]

what they actually said was that a few classes were putting out too much dps with 186 gear. balance would have been dealing with those cases. not kneecapping every class,including those not exceeding the arbitrary level. what they really wanted was to be able to claim that dp/df are still top level content. they are not "too easy" if 99.5% of the player base cant even start to clear them. balancing the entire game based on a few edgecases is an awful idea. only time will tell if this is a bad idea.

 

Agreed 100% on that.

 

I think it's less about DPS and more about keeping some old worn out, year old OPS around as an alternate way to gear.

 

Since 192 and 198 gear at level 60 will do similar (but we hope slightly more) DPS to 180/186 at level 55, it kinda like WTH was the 5 levels for again?

[Hikaru_Kuma]

Well, if your goal is to get gear, and you suffer through playing the game to do that, yeah, maybe.

Not me though: I get the gear so I can play more of the game, not the reverse. So since my current gear will probably allow me to level through the new content, and start getting the new 60 gear, I'm fine.

 

And nothing they change in 3.0 can undo or diminish the fun I have already had in this game.

How could it? And don't we play the game to have fun?

 

I play to get gears and use those to play more. In the best case, my group gets BiS lvl 60 but their dps is still the same as lvl 55, we are going to struggle more than now ( because getting new gears takes a while). Meaning we can't do old content because BW decides to make us start again in progressing that old content. Re-progessing old content again doesn't sound fun to me. I'd rather beat it and move on.

[Halinalle]

we are going to struggle more than now

 

And maybe damage dealers learn to play their role properly, again.

 

I 100% agree with this guy.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Halinalle

[KTap]

I'm just happy that my dps will FINALLY come down a bit. I was getting embarrassed going into raids and HM 55 FP's with so much power. Heavy is the head that wears the crown and I'll finally get to be like one of the peasants.

 

That's the spirit

[Zoom_VI]

what they actually said was that a few classes were putting out too much dps with 186 gear. balance would have been dealing with those cases. not kneecapping every class,including those not exceeding the arbitrary level. what they really wanted was to be able to claim that dp/df are still top level content. they are not "too easy" if 99.5% of the player base cant even start to clear them. balancing the entire game based on a few edgecases is an awful idea. only time will tell if this is a bad idea.

 

Gear is only a scalar of DPS. If you are pulling too much 186 then you will be pulling too much in every level of gear, until you hit the point where gear no longer has enough secondary and tertiary stat.

 

Also lol just lol. They moved TFB up in 2.0 so it would stand alongside S&V, they are doing the same here. You can leave your fearmongering elsewhere.

 

If there one and only goal was to keep DF/DP relevant they would have just increased the boss HP and damage to level 60 like they did with TFB in 2.0. The DPS reduction is for a entirely different purpose.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[DarthDucky]

I'm a bit confused here.

 

My toons are not the best geared (you'll have to take my word on this, most are actually quite poorly geared), compared to the L55 elites wearing shiny sets everywhere that is.

 

I was still able to clear Illum, Makeb and Oricon just fine. Well, for Oricon, I did have to take it slowly, and be careful when, where and who I pulled, but generally speaking, it's not impossible to solo.

 

If some (and I'll assume if the devs make these changes, we're not talking about a couple of people here), have gone above what was expected, and others could do it given time, why is it so bad for them them to correct the issue, before everyone, or a large majority gets to that point?

 

Sure it does look bad on paper, you'll login, and do less damage than the previous day, and you'll have to do ( more levels to do the damage you were doing at L55, which was not intended.

 

So, people are complaining, because they're currently dishing out damages of a L60, at L55? Which technically it is. If indeed the devs intended for the current max damages to be the target damage for L60, then it does make complete sense to correct things before everyone is affected .

 

Sure, it'll annoy my dps sorc greatly, which I painfully managed to gear semi adequately, but then, I think 5 more levels, hopefully more points to distribute in my skills, maybe even a new passive in there, it's probably not all dark and gloom waiting .

 

Cheer up ^_^.

[Lotharofxev]

Gear is only a scalar of DPS. If you are pulling too much 186 then you will be pulling too much in every level of gear,

 

Horsecrap.

 

Go put on 140 purples and try and clear NiM DF / DP. Still pulling too much?

[Zoom_VI]

Horsecrap.

 

Go put on 140 purples and try and clear NiM DF / DP. Still pulling too much?

 

Sigh

 

You are pulling more DPS in 140s than you ought to be pulling for someone wearing 140 gear.

[Halinalle]

If you don't pull aggro as DPS when adds run to healer then you're doing it wrong.

[Lotharofxev]

You are pulling more DPS in 140s than you ought to be pulling for someone wearing 140 gear.

 

Other than them saying so - what are the metrics?

 

This reduction is beyond illogical. So what if 5% of the playerbase has NIM DF / DP on farm status? The darned OPS have been out for what? A YEAR? I should hope that some folks are at that point. But given that I've seen (and sadly been in) raids that WIPE on SM DP, in part because of CRAPPY DPS, this reduction makes no sense.

 

So, just so I understand from a personal perspective:

 

Day R - 1: Do dailies w/ no issue, participate in SM OPs w/ random alt sporting 180 gear + 180 Barrel / Hilt (MH/OH) + Brutalizer Relics.

 

Day R: Do dailies with significant issues, cannot complete SM OP that is now 1 year + 1 expansion old, begin level grind.

 

Day R + 7: Hit level 60, participate in SM (1 year + 1 expansion old) OP w/ random alt sporting 180 gear + 180 Barrel / Hilt (MH/OH) + Brutalizer Relics. Success unknown.

 

Am I about right on this?

[Quraswren]

DP / DF are OLD content. If player power creep was a real issue, they should have dealt with it sooner - like back when the NiM power buff was still active and teams were chasing actual progression.

 

At this point in the life cycle, It is time to move on. We have a new expansion, new level cap, supposedly new operations - basically new challenges to overcome.

 

DP / DF and everything else currently in the game at 55 should stay at 55, slowly becoming easier and easier like all things in a stat progression game, though hopefully retaining a bit of challenge through mechanics similar to EC NiM.

 

Nerfing player power, and potentially making all post 50 content (still unclear) more difficult, just to keep DF / DP relevant at 60 smacks of 'we won't have enough content to keep people occupied at 60 so let's recycle some old stuff' desperation.

 

And as a couple of other posters have pointed out, this isn't anything like what WoW did with their stat squash. Player power remained the same on a relative basis. No level 90 content was made more difficult, nor is there any expectation that players will need to level to 100 and re-gear to be able to go back and perform the same in Mythic SoO (level 90 raid) as they did back at 90.

 

Well said. More people need to read this.

 

This DPS reduction isn't because too many were doing too much DPS. That number doing that high of DPS is probably similar to the number of people that have Nim DF/DP on farm. Thats a pretty small number.

 

It's being done to recycle DF/DP into level 60 content. To do that they have to make level 60 and 198 gear damn near equal to level 55 and 186.

 

They turned leveling into a joke, lowered DPS and all because some year old, worn out ops can be kept in at level 60. That content is done and over. The story told. Leave it in the past for nostalgic fun. It doesn't need to be relevant at 60 given the amount of time it's been out.

[Halinalle]

It's being done to recycle DF/DP into level 60 content. To do that they have to make level 60 and 198 gear damn near equal to level 55 and 186.

 

Source?

[Quraswren]

Source?

 

DF/DP being used as an alternate way to gear at level 60. - Said by BW

 

With BW lowering DPS a bit at 55 in 186 gear and 198 gear at level 60 being damn near equal to level 55. - Aslo said by BW.

 

IT's being done to keep those 2 tried and worn out instances in play and to some extent still difficult for most even at level 60 in 198 gear.

 

Their making leveling a pointless and a trivial matter because you leveled from 55 to 60 so that you could be 55 again.

 

Everything I just said has been mentioned by BW except the last part and it only takes a little bit of reasoning and educated guessing to see thats the goal.

[TACeMossie]

Source?

 

Obviously his ***, as there are individuals who are testing the 3.0 content and trust me, its a lot more new content than 2.0 gave (though not if you include 2.1-2.10 )

 

The fact is i'm doing level 60-quality DPS at level 55 right now. Which is wrong.

If gear stopped at 174s or 180s, and the dps buffs were stopping at 2.7 Vig Guardian levels instead of 2.5 rollbang-abusing Engineering Sniper levels, we'd be seeing DPS increases in the expansion instead of nerfs.

Edited November 3, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Lotharofxev]

DP / DF are OLD content. If player power creep was a real issue, they should have dealt with it sooner - like back when the NiM power buff was still active and teams were chasing actual progression.

 

At this point in the life cycle, It is time to move on. We have a new expansion, new level cap, supposedly new operations - basically new challenges to overcome.

 

DP / DF and everything else currently in the game at 55 should stay at 55, slowly becoming easier and easier like all things in a stat progression game, though hopefully retaining a bit of challenge through mechanics similar to EC NiM.

 

Nerfing player power, and potentially making all post 50 content (still unclear) more difficult, just to keep DF / DP relevant at 60 smacks of 'we won't have enough content to keep people occupied at 60 so let's recycle some old stuff' desperation.

 

And as a couple of other posters have pointed out, this isn't anything like what WoW did with their stat squash. Player power remained the same on a relative basis. No level 90 content was made more difficult, nor is there any expectation that players will need to level to 100 and re-gear to be able to go back and perform the same in Mythic SoO (level 90 raid) as they did back at 90.

Well said. More people need to read this.

 

This DPS reduction isn't because too many were doing too much DPS. That number doing that high of DPS is probably similar to the number of people that have Nim DF/DP on farm. Thats a pretty small number.

 

It's being done to recycle DF/DP into level 60 content. To do that they have to make level 60 and 198 gear damn near equal to level 55 and 186.

 

They turned leveling into a joke, lowered DPS and all because some year old, worn out ops can be kept in at level 60. That content is done and over. The story told. Leave it in the past for nostalgic fun. It doesn't need to be relevant at 60 given the amount of time it's been out.

 

******************

 

I'm afraid you two are correct.

[Lotharofxev]

The fact is i'm doing level 60-quality DPS at level 55 right now

 

Can you please provide a (valid) link to what is the appropriate level damage including variances in gear? Thanks.

[DawnAskham]

Other than them saying so - what are the metrics?

 

This reduction is beyond illogical. So what if 5% of the playerbase has NIM DF / DP on farm status? The darned OPS have been out for what? A YEAR? I should hope that some folks are at that point. But given that I've seen (and sadly been in) raids that WIPE on SM DP, in part because of CRAPPY DPS, this reduction makes no sense.

 

So, just so I understand from a personal perspective:

 

Day R - 1: Do dailies w/ no issue, participate in SM OPs w/ random alt sporting 180 gear + 180 Barrel / Hilt (MH/OH) + Brutalizer Relics.

 

Day R: Do dailies with significant issues, cannot complete SM OP that is now 1 year + 1 expansion old, begin level grind.

 

Day R + 7: Hit level 60, participate in SM (1 year + 1 expansion old) OP w/ random alt sporting 180 gear + 180 Barrel / Hilt (MH/OH) + Brutalizer Relics. Success unknown.

 

Am I about right on this?

 

We really don't know exactly how this will play out because of the typical poor communication and lack of details from Bioware.

 

All we have heard so far is...

 

DPS Changes

 

• We want to look at global DPS. Some classes have exceeded the baseline values we setup. We took the opportunity to get the classes back to the baseline values we wanted (i.e. DPS numbers were creeping up, we toned it down). Players at level 60 will do similar DPS as current level 55s while the 55s in 3.0 will do less DPS than current 55s.
  
• We also made some changes so that all the mobs in leveling planets etc will now die faster
  
• Nightmare DF/DP might be get a bit difficult due to these changes but we will make some adjustments.
  
• Nightmare DF/DP will rolled into an optional part of the new endgame content and might be another path to gear for level 60s by either keeping ultimate comms or adding gear drops from the new operations into them.
  

 

What we don't know is exactly what our dps will look like post 3.0, nor what adjustments will be made to existing content beyond 'mobs in leveling planets will die faster' and for DF / DP 'we will make some adjustments'.

 

The reason for a lot of the concerns - beyond those that just don't like change and / or just want 'biiiiigg numberz' - is the combination of saying players will do less at 55 post 3.0 that today, no details on adjustments being made to content other than leveling, and the comment about DF / DP being made part of end-game level 60 progression.

 

That has led many of us to conclude that while they are trying to flatten the power curve (a good / neutral goal), they will do it in such a way as to also keep year old level 55 content relevant at 60 to pad out whatever is released with the new expansion.

 

To many of us, old content is old, and should be left in the past as it gradually fades into something that is run from time to time to complete achievements, collect gear for looks, collect speeders, or just for fun.

 

In other words, it is no longer progression, nor relevant, nor something players are excepted to run every week to progress their characters at level 60.

 

IMO they can flatten the power curve all they want, they just need to readjust all pre-existing content to the new curve and focus balancing and development on new level 60 content and not try to cram level 55 content into level 60 progression.

Edited November 3, 2014 by DawnAskham

[ivanhedgehog]

NiM DP/DF may be getting difficult again. I thought it was the point of hardest content: difficult.

 

Is there really any other reasons people whine about it?

 

nim df/dp arent the hardest content. the new ops are.

[ivanhedgehog]

Yes, this. Very succinctly put. Players should not have been able to faceroll though eight of ten nightmare DF/DP bosses, even when perfectly geared at Level 55. That type of DPS output will now only be able to be achieved when well geared at Level 60, as the Developers originally intended.

 

since a few players were evidently "facerolling" 8 of 10 bosses, they are nerfing ALL players. this will make the 2 bosses that werent too easy, too hard. you can be sure the devs wont fix that.

[Zoom_VI]

nim df/dp arent the hardest content. the new ops are.

 

Unless the new ops are coming with their NiM modes in place still, then NiM DF/DP will likely be on the same level as the new operation's hardmodes.

[Jimvinny]

The percentage of the player base that has DF/DP nim on farm is so small, that this bs about putting out "too much" dps is a load of s***. They are trying to keep old content relevant, pure and simple. Anyone denying this is just burying their heads in the sand.

[azudelphi]

The percentage of the player base that has DF/DP nim on farm is so small, that this bs about putting out "too much" dps is a load of s***. They are trying to keep old content relevant, pure and simple. Anyone denying this is just burying their heads in the sand.

 

Oh please, anyone with half a brain and sufficient ultimate comms can output way more damage than is needed for all content outside DF/DP NiM. Most classes could take a 25-30% hit to their numbers and be fine... so... no, sky not falling.

[Halinalle]

This is exactly the same type of rage that happened on EVE forums when they adjusted missiles.

"Game is dying. What did you say? Target Painter? I'm pure PvEr and I don't need no stinking Target Painter."

 

Now here:

"Game is dying. Now clearing CZ dailies takes 10 minutes instead of 5-7 minutes. Ragequit."

[Zoom_VI]

Oh please, anyone with half a brain and sufficient ultimate comms can output way more damage than is needed for all content outside DF/DP NiM. Most classes could take a 25-30% hit to their numbers and be fine... so... no, sky not falling.

 

^^this

 

No progression guild regardless of whether they are doing NiM DP or HM S&V, ever discusses DPS checks. I remember prior to 2.0 where a big part of progression was figuring the minimum DPS requirement, and then throwing everything at trying to meet that. Now people don't worry about it, because they know that DPS is a non-issue as long as they don't have complete derps.

 

I cannot remember the last time I heard of someone wiping because of enrage.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Zoom_VI